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Jack Staff - what do you think?

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
12:07 / 19.06.03
Spinning off from Houdini's thread on comics that don't get talked about here - Paul Grist's Jack Staff. Despite a general wish to reduce my comic intake, I'm interested by this one. It's Union Jack, basically, yes? With some other characters from classic UK comics - I had a flick through and noticed General Jumbo, or a parallel thereof...

So, what's it about? Is it good? And how do Marvel feel about Union jack being used (I'm assuming Zenith Phase 3 has paved the way for Boy's Own story superheroes to be used, but Union Jack was being used by Marvel at the very least until the early 90s, and I have a feeling he may have cropped up more recently)? Is this the Fighting American all over again?
 
 
_Boboss
12:29 / 19.06.03
fucking fucking great stuff. it's union jack but different enough to put the lawyers off and put through the 60s fleetway/ipc blender, vampire reporters, hellhounds talking to camera, no-nonsense coppers, steel claw, the spider and tom-tom the robot man. and the druid guy ('don't turn the page! have you any idea how hard it is to maintain a hyperdimensional psychic link?')and the green guy and '?'. the fighting american was actually killed by jack in issue four of the first run, tho he was called sergeant states or something. there's no doomlord or dan dare in it yet, but i bet there will be soon. and he draws better than eisner, and these days it's even in colour.

i think it started as a rejected union jack pitch which got a whole lot of tweaking. grist takes a lot from phase 3 and moore's run on captain britain, like you would if you were single-handedly reinventing the uk superhero landscape. brilliant fucking fucking
 
 
sleazenation
12:39 / 19.06.03
I love grist's work - his sense of layout is is deceptively simple but wonderfully complex.

I have to disagree about the use of colour though, I tend to find that it makes the strip appear very flat and generally lacks subtlty.

I've tend to prefer Grist's work in black and white- it gives him much more of a chance to play with the lighting to affect the mood of the strip (see especially volume one of Kane)

(more later when i have more time...)
 
 
Axel Lambert
13:15 / 19.06.03
Here's Jack Staff # 1 online
 
 
sleazenation
13:22 / 19.06.03
The Above is issue one of the (current) series from Image. Not to be confused with The original series from Dancing Elephant Press
 
 
DaveBCooper
13:45 / 19.06.03
Colour me intrigued - is there a starting-point anyone could recommend to me ?
Thanks.
 
 
sleazenation
13:54 / 19.06.03
WEll The old series isn't required reading for the enjoyment of the image series (issues 1 and 2 are out now btw) But you could do far worse than pick up the first trade of the orginal series entitled Yesterday's Heroes...
 
 
DaveBCooper
14:23 / 19.06.03
Thanks - that's the black and white one that's about 9 quid, right ? I'll look out for it tonight.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:43 / 19.06.03
Paul Grist is really terrific; incredibly talented as both a writer and artist.
 
 
sleazenation
14:46 / 19.06.03
That's right 9 quid for, i believe, the first 4 issues in glorious black and white...
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
15:28 / 19.06.03
That online one is ruddy great. I am a convert. (Becky, Girl Reporter, reminds me of Whisky). Oh for some cash...
 
 
houdini
16:00 / 19.06.03

Paul Grist's black and white work on 'Kane' - a cop book which was the predecessor to 'Jack Staff' - was mindblowingly good. It was what really destroyed my ability to continue reading 'Sin City', as, despite it's lack of bad-boy chic, it continued to show Miller up month on month. Grist totally captured the use of black and white to produce noir stories, and had all kinds of neat storytelling devices and visual trickery tucked away in each issue.

What I think is interesting about his style is that it's very understated, very playful. You at no point feel that he's trying to "wow" you, but overall the effect builds up and it *does* wow you. Well, when I say "you" I mean "me". Over in my original whining thread I was knocking around some ideas about why indy comics aren't more popular and one that occurs to me now is that typically it's the mainstream comics that try hard to manufacture the big contact "wow", the wow that comes off the page in the store and makes you drag the book to the counter and buy it. Compare any widescreen Authority carnage-fest with any two pages from Jack Staff and you get very different feelings. But in most ways I think Jack Staff is really a lot better of a book.

One thing that I'm not sure about is the continuing motif of the "intro page". After a while in the first series I did feel that it was kind of grating on me a bit. It's a clever device and all, and handy for reminding you who the characters are. Moreover, Grist's more or less found a way to integrate it comparatively seamlessly with his narrative style. But still the repeated use gets to me. Seems like on Kane he used a broader set of techniques and only played with each one as much as it needed. But maybe I just miss Kane and shouldn't whine so much.


Khaologan23ris - D'you really think he drew from 'Phase 3' all that much? I mean, beyond the obvious fact that he's reinventing old school British heroes and plopping them in a shared universe? Morrisson's treatment seemed to me to be much, much more po-mo and more cynical. In fact, IIRC, in the introduction to the Phase III trades from Titan he (or maybe Yeowell) talks with great glee about how much fun they had turning these characters into wimps or transvestites and generally slaying and mutilating them. This was, of course, wholly in keeping with the tone of Zenith, and with 2000 AD in general, and was part of the mad genius of the whole thing. But Grist seems to be going for a much more positive re-working. If anything, I'd say he's more inspired by Moore books like 'Supreme' that tried to do a positive re-imagining of the Silver Age during the mid-to-late-90's. Even Moore's early Captain Britain stuff was a bit more deconstructivist, casting the old British characters (including, interestingly, Marvelman) as the parallel-Earth victims of the Fury. I think both Moore and Morrisson, in their '80's work were trying to "clear the decks" of embarassing old concepts and make space for cool, sexy new supers who their readership could relate to. It took till the '90's for the comics field to start looking inwards and go back and appreciate the sheer genius of the Steel Claw or Cat-Man and Cat-Girl or whatever. Hence, Flex Mentallo, 1963 and Union Jack.

Top book, though.
 
 
The Natural Way
16:12 / 19.06.03
Looks very good, actually. I hope this can become a "new thing". Will check out yr back issues if I come down pon weekend, Khao.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:57 / 19.06.03
Dude! That looks very cool- and you're absolutely right, K-C C, Becky is Whisky Priestess to a startling degree. Will definitely look more closely, and probably get the GN. You can borrow it, Cats.

I enjoyed what I read of Kane but never felt that into it, probably because I just don't really enjoy the hard-boiled sin city thing in comics - books always seem to do it better. Fleetway superheroes, on the other hand, are bang up my street. Looks like the Captain America figure is going to be Baron Blood...
 
 
Spaniel
17:49 / 19.06.03
Love Grist's imaginative, playful style. Reminds me of the kind of stuff I was writing when I was eight years old, but, you know, written by an adult.
 
 
_Boboss
09:26 / 20.06.03
Kind of i do yes. i'd never known the steel claw till he got his arm ripped off in zenith, and grist rightly acknowledged that zenith is the only british superhero, the rest being invented by shermans or adapted closely from shermanic ideas. zenith is funny and puts throwing buses in a fantasy britain. so's jack staff, so where's the real difference? fucking fuck
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:42 / 20.06.03
Speaking of Paul Grist - I found St. Swithin's Day under my bed last night. Why can't more comics be like that?

I'm really starting to admire his composition - the bit where "John Smith" Jack Staffs his way down the building site to rescue Whisky Burdock, girl reporter is *nice*.
 
 
_Boboss
10:01 / 20.06.03
where's my back issues? who's got them? i've got all the black and whites now and want them assembled and combine and smash cities with their strength.

his composition is arguably the best bit, he actively pulls the reader's eyes across around the page in the way he wants and that's nigh-o genius for me

and kane pisses all over sin city, issue 24 i think, fwankie's story or something? ver ver good.
 
 
sleazenation
09:07 / 21.06.03
I don't really see Sin City and Kane as very similar at all. Kane is certainly more playful than Miller's ubermacho tales. I perticularly like the way Grist uses the layout to show if what we are seeing is a flashback.

And on the subject of Grist's work He's just released the first part of a Burglar Bill six part series. The first 5 issues were completed around the same time as St. Swithen's Day but only the first issue was published Grist is working on the sixth at the moment. Tis very good
 
 
sleazenation
09:16 / 21.06.03
Free 5 page Kane story
 
 
_Boboss
07:39 / 24.06.03
HELLOO? i'm serious! who's got my back issues? i want them back, they need assembling so next time i lend them to one of you cunts they'll all be there, but i DO want to know where they are.
 
 
_Boboss
09:11 / 24.06.03
grrr
 
 
Spaniel
09:26 / 24.06.03
I've got your back issues. What the fuck you gonna do about it?
 
 
Gary Lactus
09:38 / 24.06.03
I want to borrow them before you give them back to that fat, self styled 'sultan of salt'.
 
 
_Boboss
09:38 / 24.06.03
stay there, i'm on my way. you might want to call an ambulance
 
 
_Boboss
09:39 / 24.06.03
you cunt
 
 
_Boboss
09:41 / 24.06.03
noooooo! give them back to me first - the missing issues are v.v.good and will make future borrowings many many times more fun.

You - bring them round some time this week

and You - hold on till next week then you can have the complete lot innat good eh?
 
 
Sax
10:43 / 25.06.03
I wonder if Marvel will throw my Union Jack pitch for Epic into the bin because Jack Staff has stolen UJ's thunder, or whether they'll use it to retain their character copyright?

Or whether they'll throw it into the bin because it's crap, and just do their own UJ book again?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:45 / 27.07.03
I have a feeling they have - just a feeling, mind, but didn't Union Jack crop up in one of the Marvel publications reasonably recently?

As for Jack Staff - I got the TPB last week, and very much enjoyed it. In a way it reminded me somewhat of The Establishment, but the much smaller focus of the story seemed to work in its favour - the characters were, both metaphorically and literally, simply but well drawn, although Jack did seem a bit of a cypher - possibly this will change over the course of the comics, but he seemed very much to be the person things happened around, although the constant attempts at non-violence were a nice touch. In fact, there were nice touches all over - Tom-Tom's reaction to the death of the Q agent and the apparent misdirection on why was v. cool.

Odd that Grist should choose to work not only the Invaders (?) and Baron Blood into this, but also Dad's Army and Steptoe and Son - it was rather count-the-reference, which can lead to limitations, but I did *really* like the way it evoked Englishness, for want of a better word.

So, how far along has this series now got?
 
 
sleazenation
21:45 / 27.07.03
the original series runs for 12 issues - issue 12 of which will come out this christmas as a bumper special... (don't ask why the original series is still going alongside the new one...)

so far there have only been two or three issues of the second series published and there is the six issue burglar bill series also out from paul grist at the moment...
 
 
Sax
10:29 / 28.07.03
Newsarama have details on the latest issue here.
 
 
misterpc
10:21 / 29.03.04
Just wanted to add in to the mix - the TPB of the first 12 issues of the original Jack Staff run are out and published by Image, under the chortling title of "Everything used to be in Black and White". It's 12.99 quid in blighty (unless you go to A Place in Space in Croydon, they're still running their 10% off all TPBs deal) and WORTH EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED PENNY.

I'm posting this to bump the thread back to the top of the pile, because Jack Staff is comics at their best and everybody should own a copy, because then we'd all be a lot happier.
 
 
Simplist
22:02 / 05.05.04
So I just polished off Everything Used to Be Black and White in one sitting, and I want more, dammit! Does the current Image series pick up right after the trade, or was there other material published between them?
 
 
sleazenation
22:08 / 05.05.04
The current image series doesn't really pick up from anywhere as much as it serves to seemlessly re-introduce the character and his supporting cast again...

Which reminds me, its been a while since we've seen any new Jack Staff (or Burglar Bill)... hopefully this means Grist is hard at work on a new KANE OGN...
 
 
Sax
06:00 / 21.07.04
My copy of Everything Used To Be Black and White, the first trade, arrived from Amazon yesterday. Lovely stuff. So gorgeously evocative of an England that never existed it made me want to go and drink warm beer, watch some cricket, and fondle John Major's knee on the back row of a Gaumont cinema showing Went The Day Well? Only read the first story but looking forward to the rest. And the cultural references are so *tee-hee* - Dad's Army, Steptoe and Son... the editor referring to Becky Burdock as "Miss Dandelion".

So is there another trade, yet? And does Paul Grist's use of the apostrophe improve in later editions?
 
  

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