Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men #145

Page: 1(2)

12:19 / 05.09.03

Could Cassandra have been Weapon XIV (or even Weapon XI) ?

And god I hope this doesn't turn out to be all due to Apocalyse, As someone mentioned earlier it would be too fucking predictable and GM is better than that...

14:18 / 05.09.03

You mean Kane from the Spider-Man books? I was wondering if "Huntsman" was a reference to an already-existing character or just a random name Morrison made up. Maybe Kraven the Hunter?? *LOL*

Anyway, this was pretty good, but I know it'll be far better next issue. This Weapon Plus arc was the only story arc of Morrison's NXM that left me a little cold.

My vote goes to Martha the Mutant Brain as the spy in Xavier Mansion.

14:24 / 05.09.03

'Huntsman' was Weapon XII, or Zona Cluster-6. He's dead now.

18:11 / 05.09.03

just because everyone else has been mentioned so far, my new vote for the spy in the mansion:

No-Girl

19:01 / 05.09.03

Well we have no idea how powerful Xorn really is.

But if he can turn into a black hole and control gravity, he could kill Jean.

The real question: can Superman outrun the Flash?

21:08 / 05.09.03

No the real question is Bounty or another brand of kitchen towel mister sarcy.

00:30 / 08.09.03

i've just got to say that i love the idea that Captain America, hero of many WWII battles against the Nazis and many subsequent battles against Nazi villains like the Red Skull, is actually the first in a series of government experiments designed to design a bunch of ubermenchen to wage a genetic war and carry out genocide. love it. love it love it love it.

chances of this actually coming up outside of NXM? probably zero. but i'd love to see Cap find this out.

Keith, like a scientist

00:45 / 08.09.03

well, the current (and fantastic) run of Captain America has been dealing with the darker side of Cap's origins and turning some previously thought notions on their heads, all wrapped in lovely Jae Lee artwork.

Granted, they don't say Weapon I anywhere (does this mean the black Cap is Weapon 0, btw?), but I could definitely see this coming up in a future arc of the Cap series, especially given that Wolvie and Cap go back quite aways.

03:01 / 08.09.03

actually, i haven't been reading Cap. i heard something about post 9/11 Cap storylines as being really awful and jingoistic. what's been going on over there?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

07:23 / 08.09.03

They put Austen on it (like every other Marvel comic these days. sigh).

Before he started I think they revealed that he (Cap not Austen) recieved memory implants and that the government wanted rid of him in the 1940's. Kind of rides roughshod over the old continuity but hey.

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:01 / 08.09.03

The thing I liked about this issue is the fact that until now, Logan's been a rock compared to the rest of the team. Scott is obviously fucked-up, Henry is pretty neurotic, Emma was a mess just before being shot, Charles is resigning and so would seem to be somewhat disillusioned, Xorn is sinister, Jean may go Phoenix any moment. But Logan, somewhat ironically, has seemed stable, 'normal' even. And now he seems resigned to being a killer, nihilistic and suicidal. It's even heart-breaking given the open, wondering expression he has when he's first opening the files... You really get the sense that things are going to hell for the X-Men very quickly in this issue.

I'm intrigued by the parallels in plotting between the Cassandra Nova arc and the wider one that this issue was part of, too. Scott always ends up on board exploding space stations, doesn't he?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

11:01 / 08.09.03

Something struck me reading my E is for Extinction trade t'other day: In the Morrison manifesto, it states that Cassie had a big plan and a hidden co-conspiritor who was very evil, deadly etc. Now we know the ideas got jumbled around a bit in the transit to the printed page, but this seems very relevant to current events, hmmmm?

11:22 / 08.09.03

Logan's been the rock of the X-Men ever since Mutant Massacre in a lot of ways. In the days when they were on the run and then afterwards living in Australia, he was totally the quiet support behind Storm and Rogue. a little jaded, but stable and strong...

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:15 / 08.09.03

Something else I've just realised: in this issue, Scott says that humans will never accept mutants at all, and that war is inevitable. Which is to say, he's pretty much come round to Magneto's point of view....

Our Lady of The Two Towers

16:38 / 08.09.03

Yes, that I did like, but in the end it seems that Cyke and Logan tagged along so that Grant could justify spending four issues with his new favourite character, Fantomex. Who was, is and forever will be, lame superassasin guy. Cyke does nothing and Logan very little. And the fact that the super-government has it's history in a slow visual type on screen... I do wonder if we'll learn anything about Logan's past or whether that's something that Grant will leave hanging in case another writer wants to do something with it.

More obvious parallels between Weapon 15 and Xorn, "I could have been a painter", at the moment I don't know whether to think that's deliberate or accidental on Morrison's part.

But this little adventure has had the effect of bringing any building excitement through Morrison's run to a shuddering halt for four months. It's the same as that four parter with the shooter in 'Transmetropolitan', there's a lot of lost ground to make up now.

17:14 / 08.09.03

I thought the "could've been a painter" thing was an echo of Hitler, who had aspirations to be a painter, and who Morrison painted an intruiging portrait of in his little-seen, little-known NEW ADVENTURES OF HITLER series years back in some British comics magazine. Like Weapon XV had potential to be either a great destroyer (Logan calls it a 'genocidal machine) or a great artist. Although everyone said Hitler's paintings sucked.

ONLY NICE THINGS

17:24 / 08.09.03

The comic was called Crisis.

20:22 / 08.09.03

Look. All I want to know is what did E.V.A. stand for?

Murray Hamhandler

21:24 / 08.09.03

My best guess is Extra-Vehicular Activity, as used by Claremont himself early in his run. It seems to make sense. Although you can take a look here and see if any other options work for you. Enhanced Vulnerability Assessment, anyone?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

10:52 / 09.09.03

More on the "Nuke" guy revealed to be a WEAPON:

http://leaderslair.crosswinds.net/marvelvillains/nuke.html

But which weapon is he?

11:00 / 09.09.03

9, judging from the statement that they started using memory implants (sexy plastics) thereafter.

seeing nuke again was probably the best bit of this issue

except for the advert for JLA/Avengers. that's the best bit. go have a look at thor's nose, you'll piss yerselves.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

12:07 / 09.09.03

See I'm just thinking in terms of what we know from fantomex:

0-1 Cap americas

2-3 Animal trials

4-6 Ethnic Minorities

7-10-? Mutants

?-15 the world's super sentinels

From the summaries I've read I reckon Nuke is an augamented mutant, so he's either VII, IIX or IX, but he seemed to have some kind of memory implants and only knew of one other super-soldier. hmmmm.... perhaps XI?

13:08 / 09.09.03

I like Electronic Video Agent.

This ish (and last) was very similar to a video game, particularly the side-scrolling that Bachalo constantly used.

Who's the Weapon + conspirator? Stumped here. But I'm ashamed to admit I only noticed upon seeing it that their symbol is just 45 degrees removed from an X.

Who's the emergent power? Xorn or Phoenix, I'd wot.

Tidbits, but still.

13:27 / 09.09.03

jesus all these people who've never read Born Again. Nuke's from frank miller and david mazzuchelli's second run on daredevil. the collection is in your local shop and it truly represents some of the very best work anyone has ever produced for marvel comics. mazzuchelli is a proper proper genius of pacing, narrative, body language all the things you're meant to spunk for and miller's just miller, but before he went all macrosatire and was just dead hard-boiled. nuke was a normal though unusually patriotic soldier reinforced with plastic skin, steroids and lots of drugs. like most his white countrymen the only supersoldier that he knew of was captain america.

15:32 / 09.09.03

I seriously agree, Miller & Mazz's BORN AGAIN Daredevil series is a crowning achievement in comics. For me it's right up there DARK KNIGHT RETURNS (the first one), WATCHMEN, MAUS and BATMAN: YEAR ONE (they're obviously all apples & oranges, very different comics, but each a true masterpiece in its own right). Get it. Buy it. Read it. Love it. Then see how Mazz' art evolved from BORN AGAIN to DD: YEAR ONE (which was done after BORN AGAIN). Nuke rocks. I love how Morrison threw ol' Nukey in there.

15:41 / 09.09.03

Funnily enough, I bought and read for the first time, the 'Born Again' trade a week before this came out.

I was jaded by the time I read #145, like 'Aw yeah, Nuke. Old news.' He's not a mutant, I'm fairly sure.

Mazzuchelli is the phenom, too.

Murray Hamhandler

21:04 / 09.09.03

Funny. Just last week, before I got NXM 145, I bought all of the Miller (and Nocenti) Daredevil issues and collections that I didn't already own. Including Born Again. Haven't read them yet, but I flipped through and caught my first glimpse of Nuke about a day before I got my second.

How very odd.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

14:46 / 10.09.03

I wonder if the secret collaborator is Professor X? Now, I'm missing about ten years of reading X-Men but in something like X-Men 14 there was a tiny throwaway thing indicating that ever Xavier or his Dad had links to the Weapon X program. Was that ever followed up? It's a really small thing for Morrison to follow up, but what if Xavier has infiltrated his way into the Government anti-mutant program so as to cripple it from the inside?

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:55 / 10.09.03

"Cripple it from the inside"? You insensitive bastard, Lady.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

15:37 / 10.09.03

Yeah, back in the early issues of X-Men (now New X-Men), Brian Xavier (Chuck's dad), was implicated in being involved with Weapon X at the very least.

04:23 / 11.12.05

Joe Q has made some cryptic comments lately that tie into this issue to some degree. Over at his weekly Q&A at Newsarama, last week he ended with this line when asked for a tease, "Just four words, give me a red, Matt, give me a red!" This week, the followup:

NRAMA: "Give me a Red"... sounds like a new advertising campaign for Red Bull...or the return of a character. Any additional ideas what it has to do with Marvel?

JQ- Now Matt, you know better than that, what character uttered those lines many years ago?

NRAMA: Nuke from Daredevil: Born Again, so there. Anything to add to that?

JQ- Absolutely nothing. I just thought I’d bring it up for the heck of it! In all seriousness, could a character like that show up as something out of someone’s past? Perhaps someone who’s slowly learning about his…

Ah, I’ve said too much.

He's going on about Logan's current "Origin Quest" storyline at the moment at the end there, and how he's regained his memories and off on a big journey going over his past. As seen in NXM #145, Nuke was a part of the Weapon Plus program, presumably Weapon IX. Captain America was either Weapon O or I. It seems more than likely that Logan is going to encounter Nuke during his quest, and uncover more stuff about Weapon Plus . It's really nice to see the Weapon Plus Program referenced, as it's one of my favourite bits from NXM, and also there's a chance that it may tie into Millar and McNiven's upcoming "Whose side are you on"/Civil War mini, which apparently sees the MU heroes fragment along the lines of 'with the mutant' and 'against the mutants'.

Cap being revealed as being created by the Weapon Plus Program would seem to tie into Millar's series thematically. I can't see why they wouldn't bring this up, especially if they're going to be bringing up Nuke from the same story. Over in the Wolverine series, Dum Dum Dugan of SHIELD isn't happy when he finds out that Logan has regained his memories. Could Joe Q actually not be talking shit when he says that Marvel have had a plan that they've been building up to? Was it Morrison or Marvel who decided to include Cap and Nuke as products of the Weapon Plus program? Has Brubaker been using anything resembling Weapon Plus in Cap?

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

12:56 / 11.12.05

That was Nuke? Daaaaaaaaamn.

Matthew Fluxington

15:25 / 11.12.05

It sounds like they are just building on Grant's ideas. It's too bad that isn't the general policy for X-Men right now, but whatever.

16:41 / 11.12.05

I seem to remember Tieri building a little on Grant's writing not so long ago. Be careful what you wish for.

Page: 1(2)