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Is change bad?

No star here laces

08:45 / 21.05.03

There is an opinion that says that people with manifestos, visions and utopian dreams always end up fucking things up and causing more harm than good. Is this true? Is the world best left to its own devices?

(cf: supervillains)

Unencumbered

08:55 / 21.05.03

Any form of change is accompanied by a certain amount of risk, so sometimes idealists will, indeed, only succeed in making things worse. Sometimes, though, they genuinely improve things, as I'm sure that those who fought (and still fight) for rights for workers, women, racial minorities, homosexuals etc. would be happy to point out.

Just because a course of action may be risky doesn't mean that it isn't worth taking, IMHO.

captain yossarian

11:46 / 21.05.03

people who hate changes in fear of mistakes have a strong problem with their self-esteem... nothing is badder than a everlasting status quo...

standing still in a moving world means going back.

Smoothly

12:16 / 21.05.03

I'd have thought that people who never fear mistakes have perhaps got the bigger problem. And do you really think that nothing is worse than the status quo? Nothing at all? Should we precipitate Armageddon because, well, it's different?

I imagine that most people will agree that certain changes would be a good thing, but I suppose the important question is how we go about implementing change, and what consequences we're willing to risk by doing do. These in turn are going to depend on how robust you consider the status quo to be, and how predictable the consequences of changes are.

dream serum

13:15 / 21.05.03

That is the sort of thing the Rightists would put out to discourage any action against them or their devices. The people who hold manifestos and visions are those who are truly passionate. Although in some cases (The Bush adminstrations twisted agenda of a dominated middle east) visions can be detrimental. I say we need more positive manifestos and some one with a reasonable utopian plan for a better planet. Which is pretty obvious.

Spyder Todd 2008

13:21 / 21.05.03

I don't know, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, (literally) but Armageddon would be kind of interesting to watch, in a sick, twisted kinda way...

I don't really think change is good or bad. I think its above concepts like "good" or "evil", it just simply "is". Change is change, and nothing more.

Jub

13:38 / 21.05.03

With the right amount of EDUCATION anything is possible, even for those folks who don't want change.

I'll take each of your points in turn. Firstly you said that people with manifestos end up fucking things up; well that's clearly wrong and self-evidentally so. You say that they cause more harm than good, but I would say that in actuality the exact opposite of what you stated as true is er.... true.

The world is not best left to it's own devices because there are single mothers everywhere honest folk's cash from my hands.

Now I think I've pointed out that you are wrong, which must mean - logically - that I am right.

Jub

13:42 / 21.05.03

oh sorry forgot to add a

SMS

00:14 / 22.05.03

I tend to think that efforts to make the world utopian are dangerous. For one thing, the promise of an ideal world can cause people to turn their heads to the means of reaching the ideal world. Marxism in the Soviet Union acted ironically like an opiate for the masses, promising greatness but delivering misery.

But there is one point that we should recognize in any argument like this. Because change will inevitably bring about both desirable and undesirable consequences, both those who opposed and those who supported the change originally will easily find their opinions justified when the change is implemented.

All Acting Regiment

17:54 / 04.06.03

I think that if you're in a position to change things you should think about all those who are affected by the change rather than yourself.

Example: I have become the leader of a country. I was bitten by a yellow canary as a child. Thus, I dislike the colour yellow. I have an overwheening desire to destroy The Yellow. Many people depend on a yellow dye factory for jobs. I wish to make a change: burn it down because of my little "issue".

Even though i personally have this thing about yellow, I think (the real me not the dictator me) it would be wrong to implement the change because it affects many people in a bad way.

Democracy should ensure that all changes are only beneficial.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

18:00 / 04.06.03

Change is inevitable.

Attempts to force changes on the world according to an ideology are a different matter.

Is it possible to produce a good, better, or perfect state of affairs by imposing change?

—| x |—

20:12 / 04.06.03

This simple one line is not meant in anyway to come across as flipant or disrespectful of the subject, but merely to give a short and clear summary of my feelings about an aspect of it:

The only constant is change.

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