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Filth 10

 
  

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quinine92001
18:30 / 07.05.03
Now we know where Quentin Quire went after exiting his Marvel coil!
Max Thunderstone=Quentin Quire(the boy whose thoughts one could read)
favorite line-What happens when youcross stupidity, a love of science fiction, and blind idealism with humungous amounts of money? Someone like me happens.
-Rapid Fire Accupunture
Buddhismo!
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
20:00 / 07.05.03
"What's that smoke coming out of his head?"

Brilliant. Grant's been talking about real life super heroes forever. Nice to see one. It is all a bit holey right now but I'm sure everything will get explained. I certainly didn't expect the legendary Max Thunderstone to be a doof if this magnitude, but the Millionaire ending just made everything right.

What is the greek word for hidden?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
20:12 / 07.05.03
"I'm on the Outside! Everyone Can See Me!"

Grant Morrison Kills the Invisibles.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
22:38 / 07.05.03
fucky! british: do we have to wait till friday for this coza bank monday holiday thing? I'm ooty ra cuntry on fri till mon night as well! SO tuesday then?!

Fuck.
 
 
Tamayyurt
22:52 / 07.05.03
Not only QQ but now we know what's become of Flex Mentallo.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
01:35 / 08.05.03
Yes, I figured Thunderstone was the "shell" of Flex.
Very lucid writing this time around. The "god switch" thing is real (he told me about this in my Disinfo interview with him––and he even makes fun of people interviewing him and emulating him in this issue) of course. This has probably been commented on before but I interpret this whole series as Grant piecing together the broken parts of his existence. The Invisibles and the Hand are both assisting in the development of the writer/reader/culture: Invisibles by paving the way for higher development up the tree by violently opening up each successive sephira; the Hand by piecing together the broken shells around each sphere. (This is why magicians work with the Tunnels of Set, which at first seems counter-intuitive.) Each issue the Hand sanitizes and neutralizes some psychic sink-hole. (Kenneth Grant's "Nightside of Eden" would, of course, be the secret key to this series.) If Grant is now truly an "Ipsissimus" as he claims (and keep in mind that the only other person to within reason declare having attained this publicly is Aleister Crowley–nobody claimed this before him, and many doubt Crowley's claim, including Kenneth Grant) than this is how he got there–inbetween his "5th dimensional lovegoo alien abduction" in Tiphareth and total Godhead in Kether would be his sinking through Da'ath into the Tunnels, represented by this series. But how much is a put-on, GM, how much? (And which of the four worlds was this ascension performed in?)
Like my friend Crazy Joey (www.purplz.com) says, "It's all bullshit, this whole work, the Great Work, everything, it's useless."
 
 
quinine92001
14:46 / 08.05.03
greek word cryto=hidden
 
 
vajramukti
18:07 / 08.05.03

it really hit me this issue what this series is about, at least for me.

every issue is an exploration of the degraded, grotesque, and disgusting underbelly of some favorite idea of morrison.

having entered the abyss, he is forced to confront every dark and horrible aspect of everything he loves and values.

he sees himself as a disgusting old pervert, whose cats are dying on him, alone and playing around on the edges of child-porn.

he sees his dreams of superspydom, as misanthropic power fantasies, lashing out at the world to justify his own existance.

he sees his beloved superheroes, the imaginary beings that he works with and believes in, as prisoners of a hell of his making, getting their brains splattered against the panel borders, their wonder and imagination strip mined by the powers that be.

he sees the libertarian sexual utopia of deSade truned into a sleazy porn film, populated with rape and degredation.

he sees the potential for us all to be superheroes reduced to a pitiful fanboy, warped beyond all recognition, dead at the feet of an uncaring world.


he sees the immanent supercontext, the emergent new consciousness, as just another hive mind cult, with stupid outfits.

and he sees all of it as shit and trash, flushed into hell by benevolent garbagemen dressed like insects, led by nightmare apparitions of sickness, apathy, and delerium.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
18:53 / 08.05.03
Yes, of course... now I wonder if what he is trying to do is destroy both his dreams and their reflected nightmares in a mutually-cancelling flash, destroying his personality to get straight up to Kether–or maybe he is just trying to justify himself by facing his nightmares and killing them off so he can concentrate on the positive aspects again? He seems to be off the magic-utopian kick in recent interviews, and just chatting away like a normal dude, so maybe the former is true.
 
 
--
19:38 / 08.05.03
Ah, maybe its all just Reichian therapy.

I was a little disappointed with this issue, mainly due to the inaccurate preview. We do NOT learn the hidden history of Existence in this issue, and Ned Slade doesn't recover more of his lost memory (in fact Slade barely even appears). What a letdown. And whatever happened with Tony and Sharon Jones, I'd like to see more of where that's going (next issue I guess). Well, the last few issues were so good, I was bound to be disappointed by one, and I guess this one was the one. Ah well...

Cool cover though. Actually, all the covers have been great.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
02:21 / 09.05.03
The covers are cool and they pretty much explain the whole point of the series. They're street signs: WARNING. SHIT. PLEASE STEP AROUND.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:39 / 09.05.03
VERY interesting to see Morrison spoofing and showing the flaws in his own "make your own reality" philosophy. He's basically showing us the other side of "you can make your life whatever you want to make it," esp. with all the specifics about his life and the word he's spreading to all his readers about magick, self-creation and the like.

A gutsy thing to do - right when you're at the top of your game in self-creation and magick, to show all the pathetic desperation that can be at the root of such self-creation.

The idea that achieving completel success in self-creation and making your dreams come true, when taken to an extreme, can also make you an 'anti-person', just as much as the traditional anti-social methods of violence, hatred, disruption in more usual ways.

Also maybe the idea that everyone needs to follow their own process - one of Max's flaws in this issue is that he sees the success he's had with self-creation and is determined to sort of force the same way of life on everyone, whether they want it - or are ready for it in their personal evolution - or not. He's obssessed with making the world into carbon copies of himself - very interesing, since it's not so much that he wants to make the world exactly like him, but he's going to force this godlike power over reality on everyone so they can make their lives whatever they want.

Almost the idea that if everyone made their lives into perfect reality, the world would be just as imperfect, if not more, than it is now.

Vajramukti did a terrific job of outlining all those points above. Nice one
 
 
vajramukti
23:03 / 09.05.03

when it comes to max thunderstone and maybe all the 'antipeople' in general, i think of some of what ken wilber has written about holons.

a holon is a part that is also a whole. It's the fundamental building block of what is known as 'holarchy': whole/parts everywhere, all the way up, all the way down.


anyway, every holon has two essential drives, it's agency, ( it's drives as a whole unto itself ) and it's communion ( it's connections of component holons, and to other holons, into a larger scale macro holon )

in the context of the filth, the antipersons disrupt status q because their agency puts them at odds with the communion of the social body, like a cancer cell that replicates out of control. if that process goes unchecked, the macro-holon of society fails in it's commuion of parts, and disintegrates into isolated components. the society vanishes, and is replaced by warring cells and bacteria.

nothing earthshattering there, but an overarching metaphor perhaps.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:47 / 10.05.03
So, was Greg part of an anti-conspiracy to unmask the filth and expose them to the world? Could the parapersona crash have been somehow programmed to occur by Max and/or Greg so that Greg could enter the Filth and help expose it? But it went wrong and now Greg is believing he is Ned? There was no first personality, before Ned there was Greg, before Greg there was Ned, before Ned... and on. Will have to reread back issues of The Filth to see where Max's name has come up before, quite how he could free Spartacus to do his mischief.

However, as with the guy who correctly diagnosed what ailed poor little Tony and then Greg didn't do anything about it for several issues, I'm a bit annoyed that Grant has completely sidestepped the climax to last week, everyone's favourite bioship. Presumerably as the little things were created to make friends with cancer cells they'll be used in someway to counter the millions of little Sparticuses flying around.

Chris Weston's art was great though, best ye for this series I think.

And I loved the bolshy dolphin!
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
20:27 / 10.05.03
Page 1 Panel 1; That guy looks like he's just breathed in something through his air supply that's disagreed with him.

Bottom of Page 2; Clearly visible, the comic strip reality that we saw in issue 3.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
21:06 / 10.05.03
so, you know how max is torturing his captive, pulling bits of his brain out through the nose, etc? and the guy is really stressed, suffering, probably bleeding to death, should be suffering from pretty serious brain damage, etc etc? and then he's ok? so, like... what's up with that?
 
 
--
21:28 / 10.05.03
Wasn't that Mercury Moog? how'd he even get captured?

As for Thunderstone references, I think they were in issue 4 and towards the end of issue 7, when the cop guy asks Ned how long he's known Max Thunderstone.

Seems like a lot of hype for a character that didn't really seem to be that impressive imo.
 
 
penitentvandal
08:11 / 11.05.03
<-- That's all I'm saying.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
08:30 / 11.05.03
Mystery Gypt so, you know how max is torturing his captive, pulling bits of his brain out through the nose, etc? ... and then he's ok? so, like... what's up with that?

It's not his brain, he pulls out the damaged septum that he's just mentioned, and I presume that wrench thing is possibly to hit the God spot, my knowledge of the parts of the brain being fairly non-existant.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
18:05 / 11.05.03
not to nitpick, but it seems vastly too large to be a septum.

what i was wondering really was, is part of this violence hallucinated? there seems a sudden time gap, for instance on the page (dont have the issue handy) when there's a super close up on the victim's face and then he's lying on the bed. it also seemed as though his wounds were appearing and disappearing, though maybe this was just the manner of comic art.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:17 / 11.05.03
Kryptos, not "kryto", is Greek for "hidden", at least Ancient Greek.

Well, that was a big fat anticlimax. I don't mean to carp. but did we really have to have another lengthy disquisition by Grant Morrison on the relationship between comic books, reality and transcendence? Has Grant Morrison ever actually shut up about the aforementioned for long enough to slip in a cup of tea?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:47 / 12.05.03
Gypt: I'll take your word for it, I was just assuming that was what it was, based on what he was saying. I was assuming that, by the way that Mercury shows no ill effects after Max does whatever he does that it wasn't like, a part of his brain, which you'd think he'd miss or something.

And Haus, were you hoping for something along the lines of 'Issue 10: Slade discovers the horrifying secret of existence and the answer to the question "One lump or two?" ("We like lumps don't we Man Green?")'?

But I'm confused (and at about the time that the usual people in Filth threads seem to have gone quiet too). Max is somehow related to Spartacus going bad? Why didn't they just get the monkey to shoot him?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:51 / 12.05.03
Well, Lada, I guess what I wasn't expecting was basically a retread of the Beardhunter issue of Doom Patrol out of Flex Mentallo (out of in the sense of horse-breeding here, rather than "featured in"). The anticlimax of the ending didn't really work because Max T. was a pathetic character from the start - there was never any sense of threat or even interest.

as for the horrifying secret of the Universe - didn't we already learn that. A big hand. Holding a big pen. BECAUSE IT'S ALL TEXT. DO YOU SEE?

Ahem.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Filth, I'm enjoying the Filth, largely, but there's a point at which clever sampling starts to decay, and with only one cool idea through the whole episode, it just felt...a bit flat. Picaresque. Like a filler episode of the Prisoner.
 
 
--
16:09 / 12.05.03
personally I'd like a bit more detail about that hand, but I may have to wait for that.
 
 
The Natural Way
16:30 / 12.05.03
I haven't read it yet, but I've got a question:

I know Grant's retreading old ground (and I'm a bit sick of it, too), but does he take it anywhere else? Does he have anything new to say about it? I don't mind a writer/artist/director/whoever going over old shit if they attempt to explore it a little bit and show me the odd new angle or two.
 
 
The Falcon
00:14 / 13.05.03
I really think this'll be the very last of the old fictive disquisition malarkey. I await the DCU being given sentience with baited breath.

Anyway, I really enjoyed the issue, especially the conclusion, which was actually a REAL! 'Ultimate Punishment' a couple of my pals made up for me, minus the death(?) and that, and with Chris Tarrant instead. Last panel's a classic.

And 'Don't patronise me, fuckface.' is my new motto.
 
 
The Falcon
00:17 / 13.05.03
I only got it today, which's why I've been quiet and managed to avoid most've this thread. A triumph for self-discipline.

Has anyone noticed that 1 in 2 issues of this comic seem to really irritate/disappoint/tire them? Seems to happen.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
16:06 / 15.05.03
Just wanted to add a little something.

In the bg of Max's apartment we see a copy of AE Van Vogt's 'Slan'... that ref speaks volumes.


http://vanvogt.www4.mmedia.is/
 
 
Baz Auckland
20:57 / 15.05.03
Where was 'temporal lobe epilepsy' mentioned before?

oh yeah! Whassis name! (runs to box of comics)....

Detective George of Division X had it. Mentions it in 3.12 when he has a vision of the wicker men... does it really exist? what is it?
 
 
bjacques
22:43 / 15.05.03
I thought "occult" meant "hidden." It was with this issue that the series showed me the different ways posthumanity could go badly wrong. I liked the end, where Max was ultimately of no help to anyone. If he hadn't hit it big, he could have helped his friend win the million.
 
 
Ganesh
22:58 / 15.05.03
The 'God spot' is in the temporal lobes, which are situated (more or less) on the lateral sides of the brain. In order to pull the temporal lobes out of someone's nose, one would need a very twisty instrument - and would make a good ol' mish-mash of the olfactory area and frontal lobes along the way...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:05 / 16.05.03
Has anyone noticed that 1 in 2 issues of this comic seem to really irritate/disappoint/tire them?

Yep. It's got to be the most inconsistent Grant Morrison comic I've ever read - I'm constantly re-evaluating it as brilliance or rubbish.

This issue pissed me off so much when I read that I haven't actually bought a copy yet.
 
 
arcboi
10:59 / 16.05.03
Great stuff as ever, although I didn't find this issue as engaging as previous ones. I suspect it's because the entire issue had to cram in Max's story, whereas some Greg action would have been a nice contrast.

Max Thunderstone. Well, what can I say except MULLET!!!! The word clouds were a fun idea, but perhaps stretching things a bit too far.

The ending was also somewhat confusing - are they trying to kill Max or what?
 
 
Jack Fear
14:01 / 16.05.03
Not trying: killing. He's an antiperson, a threat to Status:Q.

For a while I had a weird inkling that Max used his vast fortune to actually create The Hand, so he'd have a worthy adversary to test himself against... the old God-trapped-by-his-own-creation thing.

Note that Max is burned, as was Dr. Soon.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:24 / 17.05.03
I thought "occult" meant "hidden."

It does. Different language, though.
 
  

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