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Underground > Comic Books >

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen #5

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14:31 / 13.05.03

Yeah, my reaction was pretty much the same as Cameron's. I'm pretty uncomfortable with rape being used as a method of punishment. I'm fully aware it's Hyde and he's a monster yeadda yadda but I thought it was quite important for Nemo to go batshit at him, as it slightly rescues it from the glib way in which male rape tends to be presented in comics and t'other media nowadays.

Add this on to the fact that the last two issues have been more about Quatermain/Harker slash fic than the Martian invasion and I wonder whether Moore's ideaspace has been overrun by the forthcoming Lost Girls.

Overall I think that while Volume 2's still got its hot-damn cool moments, it's not a patch on Volume 1. Where Volume 1 synthesized all the elements into a tasty whole, this one's followed Well's plot for all the beats, thrown in a nob romantic subplot (I much prefered it when Quatermain's attempted gallantry and seduction kept on getting fucked up by his age) and slowed the pace down to glacial.

22:34 / 13.05.03

As to the nature of "unleash-beast-in-case-of-emergency," wasn't there a famous movie from the early silents that featured an puppet dinosaur rampaging in London? I believe it was recognized as one of the first monster movies, although after THE VAMPIRE.

Anyway, throw me in for the dinosaur.

and I won't be surprised if it has atomic breath.

at the scarwash

23:40 / 13.05.03

King Kong would be fun, but it doesn't quite seem to be very Alan Moore. And I don't think that it quite works with Dr. Moreau, with his "civilizing" anthropomorphy. Rupert and the Wind in the Willows cats, Jemima Puddlueduck (that was her, right?); these seem to follow from the ani-men of Wells' novel. King Kong doesn't, as he wasn't anthropomorphized. He was a monkey, he was anthropomorphic as all apes are, but not in the way Peter Rabbit is. Does that make sense? Maybe I need to refine that statement, but I'm not sure how.
Also not quite a snug fit, but perhaps more Moore, what about Dagon? Publication time frame is off, but he is an Old One, right? Moore likes Lovecraft. It would fit the feel of the title.
Oh fuck. Even better. Cthulu himself. Way deviates from my argument against King Kong, but rad.

at the scarwash

23:42 / 13.05.03

I should clarify, before I look like even more of a fool. I meant "cats" like "cats," not like "cats." You cats dig?

16:31 / 14.05.03

Werd.... I dig Dawg...

King Kong IS an er... unrealisic expectation... still, it would be SOOO fun.

A dragon could certainly work... but like Cthulu it would not seem to jive with the not so good doctor's MO.

How about a Jabberwoki?

Or we could take a que from some background images and have the last of the GIANTS be unshackled...

I'm just guessing at this point but it's still fun

The Natural Way

16:56 / 14.05.03

Yes, the Hyde stuff IS horrible, but as Cam says, that's the point.

We were all getting dangerously close to 'Isn't Hyde a cuddly ape' and, with this ish, Moore decides it's time to pull back from that and finally put the monster's money where his mouth is. It should disturb - it should be problematic - otherwise Hyde's just another baddie you want to snuggle with. And, yeah, what Sleaze said about Jeckyll's repressed urges.

As for Rupert and Co., I think they're brilliant. Horrible and hilarious. And, after all, the almanac's chocabloc full of stuff FAR weirder than these guys. Again, I think it was probably a good move on Alan's part to introduce us to some of the stranger bods/concepts that inhabit Leagueworld.

17:39 / 14.05.03

I think I'd have found the animals easier to accept if they were drawn - for lack of a better term - "realistically." The big cartoon eyes and brightly coloured costumes was a bit heavy-handed and pulled me out of the story. I'd have preferred a bit more subtlety - a monstrous bear-man with a grungy scarf that isn't immediately obvious as being Rupert until he's called by name or something.

As I said, I usually love this series but was a bit disappointed with this particular issue - a combination of silliness (such as the Vitorian looters nicking gramophones - ho ho ho) and gruesomeness that didn't, for me, work at all.

18:05 / 14.05.03

I have to vote "brilliant and hilarious, wonderfully creepy and twisted" on Rupert & Co.

18:59 / 14.05.03

A brilliant issue and well worth waiting for. Once again, there's a lot of joy in spotting the visual jokes or references. Puss In Boots anyone?

Mind you, Alan Moore is now ripping himself off. Compare Hyde's treatment of Griffin with poor old Johhny Bates getting it in Miracleman.

As for H-142, I think it will have the head of Godzilla, the body of a Giant Squid and the legs of your mum. Brrrrr - scary. Failing that, I'd go for the cold virus theory.

Now all the tripods are lining up on the river and someone's been staring at their pint. Yikes!

19:45 / 14.05.03

This issue definitely made me reassess LoEG Vol 2. Finally the dman thing's picking up. Noticed that the cover only sez "Issue Five," not "Five of Six" or anything. Could the series possibly turn into an ongoing affair?
When Mina explained her rejection at the hands of her husband she made a quantum leap in characterization. Which was well-needed; last issue seemed to devolve her into some geriatric-lusting hussy.
Am I the only one that saw Nemo's reaction to Griffen's sodomy as rooted in his Islamic faith? Nemo's an upstanding guy and all--he wouldn't tolerate anyone's brutal murder--but his reaction here ("You are the shit of the world!") seems in response to more than simple violence.
As for the cutesy depiction of Moreau's creations, I think it worked. It satirized more than just any single artist or author; it conveyed the fact that anthropomorophism, though a staple of children's lit, is just fuckin creepy.

19:50 / 14.05.03

Nice try, but Nemo's not a Muslim. (He's been presented as a Sikh, if I recall correctly.)

The Natural Way

09:00 / 15.05.03

I think I prefer the idea that the arcs are self-contained, Raw.

I wonder whether Moore will take us backwards or forwards in time when the curtain closes on this one..... I like the idea of checking Gulliver's League last. And before anyone says anything, I'm convinced the League won't share the same fate as the rest of the ABC titles. You can feel the love of Alankev thrumming out of every page.

18:05 / 15.05.03

>> When Mina explained her rejection at the hands of her husband she made a quantum leap in characterization. Which was well-needed; last issue seemed to devolve her into some geriatric-lusting hussy.

I didn't think she seemed "loose" - more like mainstream society totally ostracized her after the whole Dracula thing. The fact that she divorced Jonathan Harker in Moore's version also contributed to her being an outcast -- women getting divorces in those days was taboo. As was being the love slave and virtual rape victim of a demonic Count. So Mina probably hasn't had any sexual action, love or genuine affection of any kind in years.

There's a reason she decided to throw her lot in with the Royal Government and their secret ops -- there was no place left for her in the real world. Plus, she's far too intelligent, independent and strong-willed to work the shit jobs women could get in those times. And even if she did work a pissant job, she would have had to endure the scorn and gossip and stares of all her co-workers. It's like once someone finds out who she is (and her history was well-documented in the mainstream press, Moore also added in the first volume), they treat her like a leper.

I thought Moore made this pretty clear in the first series. She's just as much of a freak and outsider as any of the League members, she's just slightly more mainstream than the others (Quartermain excepted).

And I wouldn't hold out hope for more LOEG. Moore seems dead-set on his retirement, producing only performance art and LOST GIRLS with Melinda Gebbie after he hits the big 5-oh. Truly our loss; I want more LOEG and those TOP TEN miniseries(es) he talked about, dammit!!

19:58 / 15.05.03

Moore has publicly stated that he might do a LOEG now and then after his retirement. If the money's in it, I imagine he'll go for it.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:00 / 16.05.03

We were all getting dangerously close to 'Isn't Hyde a cuddly ape' and, with this ish, Moore decides it's time to pull back from that and finally put the monster's money where his mouth is.

I agree, and also, I think after Griffin's assault on Mina in issue #3 we've all been rooting for him to get a very nasty comeuppance - but the way it happens is nasty to such an extent that it makes you feel really quite icky about wanting it to happen. It's not just the rape, or all the blood - it's the way the scene is handled... Griffin doesn't stand a chance - I was expecting Hyde to have to batter his way through Martian machines before strangling a cackling Griffin, but it's not like that at all... The way it's all over before its begun, and the fact that for the duration of this scene at least, Griffin is nothing but the victim - Hyde doesn't need to exert himself even slightly - without his prey being visible, most of his movements don't even look that violent.

And the daintiness with which he locks that door - God!

The Natural Way

10:11 / 16.05.03

Oh, yes, definitely! I was just thinking about that stuff last night. Reminds me of Hyde's words to Nemo, about how Mina wouldn't REALLY like to be there when Griffen got gotted. Yeah, we expect action-packed fun....And what we get instead is slow and sadistic and disgusting. There's no noble smiting of evil - just horror.

11:07 / 16.05.03

If the money's in it, I imagine he'll go for it.

While I'm sure financial benefit will play a part in Moore's decision, it's my belief that Moore has a genuine passion for this particular fictional space.

At least, I bloody hope so.

13:16 / 16.05.03

The big cartoon eyes and brightly coloured costumes was a bit heavy-handed and pulled me out of the story.

While I can understand your perspective, it was the very absurdity of the imagery that sucked me in.

That shot of Toad sitting in his car, arm raised as if hailing some Lovecraftian monstrosity managed to disturb and tickle me simultaneously.

14:58 / 16.05.03

without his prey being visible, most of his movements don't even look that violent.

Except the bit where he breaks Griffen's leg. I felt that even if Griffen was invisible. Hyde is just toying with him at this point as well. He even says he's not going to kill Griffen right away.

Then he appears, saying he's famished. No wonder, if he made that much mess with Griffen.

01:04 / 18.05.03

Yeah, somebody made a reference to Griffen having been "buggered to death". I dont think that's the case. I would imagine that raping him was just a bit of "fun" (shudder) for Hyde before he really got down to buisness.

The Natural Way

11:51 / 18.05.03

Perhaps, but I'm sure Hyde's got a cock the size of a tree.

The Natural Way

16:22 / 24.05.03

And am I the only guy who reckons hybrid whatsitz-number will turn out to be a Moreau-mutated common cold?

No, yr not. The big monster crew are probably unaware that Moore has stressed his WOTW bit is simply a retelling of the original story, but from the point of view of those-in-the-know, as opposed to a civillian who duhn nah shit.*

So, yeah, it WILL be a virus.

Sorry, guys. Kong's out.

*can't remember the source of this info, but it's definitely accurate.

17:17 / 24.05.03

It could be a big monster that fails miserably.

08:38 / 01.06.03

Moore has publicly stated that he might do a LOEG now and then after his retirement. If the money's in it, I imagine he'll go for it.

This from Newsarama...

Jim Lee said he had a nice, long lunch with Alan Moore while in England recently and that the wonder-writer was busily working on his 96-page graphic novel Comet Rangers, which Lee said would likely be the last thing Moore will do for ABC comics. The Comet Ranger is a salute to 1950s science heroes like Tommy Tomorrow, Space Ranger and Adam Strange.
"It's set in the future on one of Jupiter's moons," said Lee. "It's a very dense story with a lot of new concepts and characters."

Lee said that Moore plans more League of Extraordinary Gentlemen stories, following the characters into the 20th century.

Huzzah!

18:49 / 01.06.03

Think he'll turn ABC over to guys like Steve Moore, Roarin' Rick Veitch, &c? That'd be really cool, but I wonder if sales would peter off. It'd be too bad if they did, Greyshirt is cool as hell.

The Natural Way

11:32 / 04.06.03

I want 20th Cent League, but by fuck I want Gulliver or Prospero's League, too.

And I really need to see the fight in the catacombs beneath Paris.

13:24 / 04.06.03

>>>Think he'll turn ABC over to guys like Steve Moore, Roarin' Rick Veitch, &c? <<<

What I've heard is that ABC is shutting down entirely, except for LoEG, which isn't really part of the ABCniverse. LoEG will continue to appear as occasional mini-series and one-shots.

13:54 / 04.06.03

Awww, I hope it's not a boring old virus!!! I know the story will follow the book closely, but man I want to see a wacko giant Moreau-created mutation kick some Martian ass in #6!!!!

ACTUALLY, you know what - the more I think of it, the more Moore MUST have put Moreau in the story to introduce a big ol' monster. Moreau doesn't specialize or even have any history whatsoever of working with viruses or microscopic organisms.

So even though the book ends with the Martians getting killed off by the common cold (right?), I still feel very strong that Moreau is gonna pull out a seriously bad-ass beasite in the final issue.

BY THE WAY, the Annotations by Jess Nevins just came out in glorious paperback today with an intro by Alan Moore, commentary by Kev O'Neill and an interview with Moore. It's pretty terrific - makes me want to go get the paperback of Vol. I right now, even though I have all the individual issues!

The Natural Way

16:29 / 05.06.03

Moreau doesn't specialize or even have any history whatsoever of working with viruses or microscopic organisms.

He probably doesn't have a history of making little frog-people, either, but that's hardly the point. A virus is just about the biggest, baddest, thinking-round-corners way to beat the martians. The twist? It'll probably be self-aware - a massive hive organism. I think Hyde'll be playing the resident Giant Ape - we don't need Kong. He'd only detract from the massive scrap in Hyde park (where Hyde gets iced), I think.

17:45 / 05.06.03

Well, Moreau's 'thing' is animal/human hybrids, so why not frogs if he did most of the animal kingdom in the original book?

Where did you get the prediction/info./theory that Hyde will bite it in the final issue, pray tell? Is this a *spoiler*?

22:53 / 05.06.03

Um, sort of spoilers, but not really.

HunterWolf: About Hyde - You can glean as much from the Almanac text in the backs of the issues. It was either issue 2 or 3, Mina described the statue in Hyde Park, re-named after the 'heroic' actions of Edward Hyde in the battle of 1888, etc. She mentions something about him being gone (I don't have the issue on hand...)

00:19 / 06.06.03

Cameron:
What I've heard is that ABC is shutting down entirely, except for LoEG, which isn't really part of the ABCniverse. LoEG will continue to appear as occasional mini-series and one-shots.

I've read the same thing, but I sure as hell will miss Tom Strong. It all has the feeling that it could run indefinitely without Moore's direct involvement, that there's an enormous territory there. It'd be cool, that's all.

I always figured LoEG was part of the ABCniverse, sort of like Conan is part of Marvel. Am I a reeking fanboy, Cameron?

14:23 / 06.06.03

Cool, LDone. Thanks -- I've read most of those almanac texts but sometimes they're just too dense and daunting

Isn't there a real Hyde Park in London? If so, this is a cool little homage to real life.

I wouldn't want to see anyone but Moore write Tom Strong. I'm just happy we're getting SMAX #1 soon (formerly titled SMAX THE BARBARIAN, I think), COMET RANGERS, and a promise of more LOEG from the illustrious Mr. Moore.

14:57 / 06.06.03

Dude, have you read Terrific Tales, or the Many Worlds of Tesla STrong, not to mention Tomorrow Stories or Greyshirt? Promethea should probably be ended when Moore's finished with it, but the other titles are still really energetic, fun, interesting, and beautiful. It would be sweet to see Alan, after showing "how it's done" with so many superhero archetypes, show "how it's done" with a work-of-many-hands superhero universe.

But again, this could be fanboy nonsense. I expect the reason NOT to do it involves that tall Yanqui dollar. Too bad.

19:58 / 06.06.03

Actually I do like Steve Moore's writing of Young Tom in TERRIFIC TALES. Wasn't crazy about THE MANY WORLDS OF TESLA, likewise the non-Moore-written GREYSHIRTS. Just my opinion.

Moore writes (or should I say 'wrote', since the series is pretty much over except for a planned one-shot in the future) everything in TOMORROW STORIES, no?

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