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Mundaning the Freaks

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Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

23:03 / 02.05.03

ok, so everyone knows the whole idea of "freaking the mundanes"
goth kids wearing gth kid stuff to school/the mall and things like that.

I have always hated the idea that anyone lumped a group of humanity into the term "mundane"

so

in an effort to counter act the snobbish goth/geek/freak/coffee kid culture in my small metropolis, i have begun my campaign to mundane the freaks.

Goth night?
i wear khakis and polos, sure people who know me recognize me, but it really fucks with the new kids...

so, anyone else decide that the local counter culture is counter productive and try to kick it in the face?

23:17 / 02.05.03

I was the only girl in a dress at a dyke bar once. Does that count? I got mistaken for a prostitute in that dress, by some bloke outside...

23:22 / 02.05.03

I remember reading (a poster on Barbelith?) someone talking of how they left work to join the May Day fun, but as they were wearing a suit, they were jeered at by others.

Not deliberate, so not the same, but I guess it's bad when membership depends on your fashion taste.

00:04 / 03.05.03

yeah, im down.

but you were wrong when you said everyone knows the whole idea of "freaking the mundanes".

i mean, i get it, i know hippies were into it, but that was an expression i had not heard knowingly. i think i had heard them call it freaking out 'squares'. cheers for the edumacation.

01:39 / 03.05.03

Oh, yeah... I wanted to go to a goth Halloween party as the Angel of Death from All That Jazz (Jessica Lange's character) - all white and frilly - but I couldn't find a suitable hat.

02:35 / 03.05.03

That always annoyed me back in high school when someone I knew who, for example, wore all black, would dismiss any of my friends who didn't dress oddly as 'Gap Girls' or the such... I had a roommate in uni who did the same, except he used the term 'norms' which I had never heard...

...which is not to say that the same terms weren't used in vice-versa by others...

Matthew Fluxington

02:41 / 03.05.03

I'm sorry, it is entirely impossible for me to even contemplate this "freaking the squares/normals" concept without thinking of Homer Simpson blaring "Uptown Girl" in his car with George Carlin.

I am truly sorry. Carry on.

02:45 / 03.05.03

Dont be sorry, I had the same episode run through my head too...and when she's talking she walking so fi..i..i..i.ine...im in love with upgirl....
Now its stuck in my head !!!!!

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

05:22 / 03.05.03

I have done this VERY recently, and the "freaks" dislike when you don't dress in their uniforms a lot more than the "mudanes". To the point where I lost all respect for someone who just didn't get what I was doing and went on and bloody fooking on about how I didn't "get" their little fashion movement.

I honestly think that "freaking the mudanes" is impossible, what with reality TV shows and hidden camera shows, everyone being a "performance artist" and the people who do it because it's almost a "mainstream" thing to do.

Thanks for bringing this up and letting me vent.

09:09 / 03.05.03

I think goths are sad. I used to have a girlfriend that was goth, and I went to a few clubs. Now I don't wear kakis and such, but usually for me it's a tshirt and jeans, but these goths acted like I was Mr. Establishment, to be shuned ignored and made fun of. EVERYONE was rude to me, the funnything is, I know a few things they would probably kill someone to hear, you know, something they could read in a book if they didn't spend all there time at goth clubs gothing out. But at the same time, thats everybody, everyone wants to pretend they are part of some elite that has privledged knowledge, that there in the know and what not. The truth is we are monkeys, tribal monkeys, all of us. Find your tribe, enjoy there company, brutalize those that don't belong, monkey. Why not? Every one else does. oh, I HATE GOTHS.

09:27 / 03.05.03

But we love you right back.

There is a good point here, that subcultures can tend to elitism and snobbery at those who do not present the right indicators. Yes, that happens. Feeling better than someone else because you wear black? That is rather pathetic.

Having said that, using this to justify a blanket criticism of a subculture that is likely already on the receiving end of a fair bit of prejudice is equally pathetic.

Also, there can be a certain defensiveness over safe spaces like clubs. These places can be a oppurtunity to do your thing, whatever that is. So seeing someone who doesn't fit in can feel like it compromises the safety of the space. I don't think it is that unreasonable.

09:38 / 03.05.03

Well I think that you may have misinterpreted the aim of "mundaning the freaks", isn't it about challenging social conventions? As opposed to wearing black or thinking your better than other people.
Plus every part of society/ niche group people will think they're better than others for some reason or another, I don't think that this is exclusive to goths.

The Natural Way

09:43 / 03.05.03

I think I prefer the Nu-metal kid's reappropriation of the goth look to the original one. It's sexier, newer and all that. I know it's not real goth, but there you go.

As for this.

'I honestly think that "freaking the mudanes" is impossible'

No it's not. I've been given shit by the local lads an infinity times for the way I dress. I don't like the term "mundanes", though.

The Natural Way

09:45 / 03.05.03

I really think some people view all that telly world stuff as exactly that: Telly World. People can get very threatened and angry when it crosses over into their local pub.

09:57 / 03.05.03

Very true Runcey boy. I think that minority cultures like goths, hipsters, general "freaks", are more subject to attacks and bigotry especially at the local pub. (has anyone else seen an American Werewolf in London, you know that scene?) Growing up myself I found that any break from the norm was regarded as high crime. Wear too much black, your gay/weird/freaky, listen to the wrong music, your gay/w/f, do well at school, your gay/w/f etc. Its possible that "freaking the mundanes" is just being unabashedly yourself in an unforgiving enviroment. Doesn't really matter though just a thoughlet.

18:20 / 03.05.03

I wouldnt call goths a minority, matterarising.
I dont really have a huge problem with gothiness- most of them are ok- but theres kind of a snobbery thing amongst them which irritates me.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

18:31 / 03.05.03

the way my mundaning began was when i was at the club, after having gone for over a year and been fairly well known as the not to gothy nerd kid. I was chatting up this lovely dead looking girl and she commented "oh my god, you wore jeans to the club, thats so strange" as a guy wearing a diaper made of PVC walked by...

21:45 / 03.05.03

It took me long enough to realize that most people didn't think they were "most people." It's the same with "the mundanes," I'd say. Everyone is a freak. It's about to what degree you express this, which consists of a lot more than what you're wearing.

Is dressing khakipolo like walking up to the kids and being like "hooray for corporations!"

Is this subverting anything? Is wearing Tommy Hilfiger a revolutionary act in the city of Portland, or is it just... like... stupid? I say make your own clothes and make your own music and make your own words and dadadadum just don't conform to DIY culture beacause that isn't DIY wear your non-brand names as brand names that's my question it's like being a freak becomes a prototype eventually and who cares this is all like watching an episode of Saved By The Bell to me.

I'll look back on this shit in the same nostalgic way as Zachary Morris.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

21:49 / 03.05.03

oh, right, sorry rage, are we not being revolutionary enough for you?

damn, there goes my day

21:57 / 03.05.03

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

22:02 / 03.05.03

i dont see the pic, just a red x
but i do apologize for my snarky response, i am having a terrible day to rival terrible days

01:41 / 04.05.03

I think what Lurid said is VERY much a part of the goth reaction to "mundanes" (although in my area, we call them "normals"). When we're at goth night, we're at a place where we feel safe from harassment over our appearance. When someone walks in wearing mainstream clothing, especially if it's a group, we tend to put our defenses up. It's not snobbery, it's that we're so used to being treated badly by "normals" that we automatically feel threatened if they enter our safe space. That said, there tends to be a very wide variety of different clothing worn at the club I attend, and no one really pays any attention to what a person is wearing.
As for "freaking the mundanes" I think for some goths that definitely IS the intent (don't want to generalize but it tends to be the younger ones who haven't reached the goth "zen" yet) but for most of us, we aren't aiming for anything of the sort. We're just dressing the way we like to and if it "freaks out" someone, they shouldn't blame their reaction on us trying to deliberately GET a reaction.

09:50 / 04.05.03

I honestly think that "freaking the mudanes" is impossible

Oh, it's possible. Have you never been at the last night of a science-fiction convention, when half the hotel bar is full of Klingons and the other half full of travelling salesmen?

10:37 / 04.05.03

To be fair, I think anyone would be freaked out by that many travelling salesmen.

I'm not entirely cool with the term "mundanes". Like Miss Lenore, I'd be more used to the term "normals", which seems descriptive rather than judgemental. Because language I use is always ok...

13:30 / 04.05.03

I think goths are sad.

isnt that the whole point?

sorry.

13:42 / 04.05.03

Once turned up at Edinburgh's fetish monthly in a pinstripe suit - but it was a velvet pinstripe, so rather sensuous. Got some odd looks from the rubber/leather/PVC crowd, though.

I dunno. On the one hand, it's nice (in a slightly exhibitionistic 'look at me' way) to challenge dress codes. On the other, one of the functions of certain clubs is, as Lurid points out, to provide a 'safe space' for individuals who'd get flak anywhere else. Sli-i-ightly analogous to my old bugbear, full-on hetero PDAs in very obviously gay clubs...

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

21:29 / 04.05.03

"Have you never been at the last night of a science-fiction convention, when half the hotel bar is full of Klingons and the other half full of travelling salesmen? "

Heh.

Fond memories.

I've been in a bar filled with furries and cosplayers while frat boys came in and they just saw it as something that warned them they should not be in that bar.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:45 / 04.05.03

Seconding (or is that thirding?) the safe-space comments. We´ve all had the "nice try, mate" experience, when some wanker decides that your clobber isn´t up to snuff and that they should be the one to tell you. However, I´ve met very many goth guys who´ve been threatened, verbally abused, kicked, punched in the face, glassed or hospitalized by people who don´t like their clothes. Guess who I have more sympathy with?

I think the whole "freaking the mundanes" thing is utterly pompous and self-indulgent. Not sure about mundaning the freaks, tho´... is that really much better?

22:27 / 04.05.03

If you need an outward sign to know your own you don't belong.

I don't really hate goths, they do entertain me though, and you must admit the ones that take it VERY seriously are an easy target, but enough of that.

How about organizing a churchy choir sing in a goth club, that would be hilarious, or a meating (pun, teehee) of the meat lovers of america or britain on the same day some vegans are doing a protest of a slaughter house?

22:42 / 04.05.03

When I lived in London I used to go to the Intrepid Fox quite a lot - if you don't know it, it's a goth/metal pub in a sea of shitty chain bars, and is less full of wankers, and has pool tables upstairs. I met friends there who worked in the area and were thus coming in wearing shirts and chinos. More than once, they were treated with suspicion by the bouncers, searched, and in one case barred from going back in at the end of the night to fetch a bag. (I didn't have any trouble but I think my work dress code was laxer.)

It's really just one of those things, though. And I've seen far more hostility to "weird-looking" people in "normal" places.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

00:05 / 05.05.03

the issue though isnt hostility or violence. There have been occasions in this town where fights break out over people dresed all "gothy" walking down the street.

The point i am trying to make, is that if someone shows up at a bank in full goth regalia and gets sneered at, what makes it ok for them to sneer at someone in jeans and a t-shirt in their club?

The safe space issue i can understand, but automatically looking down on someone because of their clothing is bad in either direction.

oh, and before thinking im some frat boy wanker looking to rock the boat, please see the photos thread...

00:28 / 05.05.03

There's a lot of difference between a bank and a club, though. Banks are not "safe space" for anyone, or shouldn't be.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

00:37 / 05.05.03

right, but by a club being a safe space doesnt give those who fit into the "people who need a safe space" culture the rights to turn snobby when they are confronted with anything different from what they consider acceptable. If i go to a normal bar and i see 2 men holding hands its not acceptable to say "your holding hands here?".

the point is that everyone should be challenged to think outside the box, even people who claim to be outside it already...

ONLY NICE THINGS

00:45 / 05.05.03

Sounds to me like the mistake was in letting you in in the first place, without which event your tender sensibilities would not have been offended.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

01:01 / 05.05.03

hmm, now haus makes a good point

if you had a goth club with strictly enforced goth/industrial dress codes then there is no issue. Much like many of the "urban" dance clubs, with dress codes involving baggyness of pants and certain "gang" wear.

I have no issue with this sort of thing, because if i want to go and listen to the music i like then by god i better conform to what they consider the right kind of person to like their music.

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