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Girl model sites - disturbing

 
  

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The Mr E suprise
06:53 / 24.07.01
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,45346,00.html (courtesy of http://www.23x.net)

Amber seems like a typical 11-year-old girl who loves horses and hates chores. Her website shows her hugging a stuffed white rabbit and playing dress-up.

But her site also contains photographs that are only available to dues-paying members.

For $25 a month, "Lil' Amber" fans can ogle pictures of the little girl coyly hiking up her miniskirt or posing in a bikini on a faux bearskin rug. For $50, they can purchase a video of Amber "dancing and running around" in outfits that leave little to the imagination.

The money goes to her college fund, the site says.

Lil' Amber is one of several websites featuring "models" as young as 9 owned by Webe Web Corporation, an Internet hosting company in Florida. A list of the sites is available at Child Super Models.

Watchdog groups say the sites smack of pornography, but Webe Web argues that the sites constitute a perfectly legal enterprise.

"This is definitely not kiddie porn in any form," said Webe Web spokesman Evan Gordon. "None of our sites have naked children."

Gordon said that the child modeling sites were inspired by a birthday party thrown for a friend's 9-year-old daughter. Pictures of the Spice Girls-themed party were posted on the Internet, and within a week they were getting 20,000 page views a day, he said.

"We decided to see if there was a market for this and there was," Gordon said.

The company started charging access to the site, which morphed into Jessithekid.com. Members can browse photos of a little blonde girl practicing yoga in a white leotard or strutting down a homemade runway in swimsuits. The site also sells videos of a coifed Jessi engaged in childish pursuits such as baking cookies or carving a pumpkin.

It proved to be a successful business model. Soon, other parents were contacting Webe Web to enlist their daughters.

Gordon said he had no idea why someone would shell out $25 a month to browse pictures of little girls in bikinis.

"That's something you'd need to ask a psychology professor," he said.

Mitchell Earleywine, a psychology professor at the University of Southern California, responded:

"Beats the hell out of me. I'm really at a loss why anyone would pay to look at these photos."

Earleywine said that men who are attracted to children tend to exhibit poor social skills and confusion on how dating works.

"I would encourage men who are on this site to seek professional help," Earleywine said.

But there's one thing Webe Web is sure about: The girl model sites are profitable.

"Many of these girls are making more money than their parents make," Gordon said, adding that while the company has been accused of exploiting children, he has no reservations about the sites.

"If you had a cute dog that I could put up on the Web and make money off of, I'd do that too," he said.

Webe Web also runs another business: hardcore porn sites, including Home From School. (The site www.homefromschool.com was taken down soon after an interview with Webe Web.)

Gordon said he was "irked" by a question of whether the company's child-modeling sites and porn sites were related and insisted there was no crossover between the company's two lines of business.

The images on sites such as Lil' Amber fall into a murky legal area, said Parry Aftab, a lawyer and the director of Cyberangels, an Internet safety and education group.

"This is utterly and absolutely distasteful, and I think it would invoke child abuse, but it's probably not illegal," said Aftab.

While the law explicitly prohibits images of minors engaged in real or simulated sex, it also forbids depictions of children designed to elicit sexual arousal.

In a landmark 1995 case, a Pennsylvania man was sentenced to jail for possessing videotapes of young girls posing provocatively in skimpy clothing. It was the first such conviction dealing with this issue in which the genitals were not exposed.

<continued on wired>

Personally, this whole story freaked me out. Comments?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
07:43 / 24.07.01
It's distasteful, but not surprising. A similar trend's happening in music; Charlotte Church is hideously young, as is some other poplet that's being touted - she's 11, I think. There was a big picture of her at one of the stations I catch the tube from, on occasion, and I remember that every time I saw it - it was airbrushed like yer average Britney poster - I shuddered. Can't remember her name, for the life of me, though.

I don't know why the increased demand for youngsters is only making headway now. Maybe on the net it's because specialisation is very easy - I can't really imagine any mainstream/established modelling agency compromising their reputation like the internet one mentioned. It's not pornography, no, but it feels inherently wrong. I'm wondering, too, how Li'l Amber would feel about it all, when she reaches college age. Happy? Proud?

Still, I guess this is just the next iteration of the Beauty Contest Kids, yes?

And yes, it weirds the fuck out of me, too.
 
 
rizla mission
08:26 / 24.07.01
That article reads like something Chris Morris would come up with.

quote:
Gordon said he had no idea why someone would shell out $25 a month to browse pictures of little girls in bikinis.

"That's something you'd need to ask a psychology professor," he said.


A responsible parent who's thought things through, folks..
 
 
Ierne
12:59 / 24.07.01
I'm wondering, too, how Li'l Amber would feel about it all, when she reaches college age. Happy? Proud? – Rothkoid

Probably numb. Like most people whose parents put them in sexually compromising situations during childhood for money.
 
 
adamswish
13:30 / 24.07.01
and how is she going to respond when someone asks how her folks are putting her through college:

"Yeah, mom and dad sell semi-nude photos of me for old men to toss off over"

If every a statement was going to quieten a room or send her friends running.
 
 
Ellis
13:38 / 24.07.01
That site makes me feel ill.

I mean... urgh... Urgh!

*Wonders if his ISP has been recorded by anti paedophile people for looking at it*
 
 
grant
13:49 / 24.07.01
Memepool had a link to one of these the other day.

I'm pretty sure I got my girlfriend listed by the FBI by hitting it from her computer.
 
 
Thrasher
16:21 / 24.07.01
I havent looked at this site but i can imagine what it offers.

Think about this:
An old lady that had a family with grand children, but that family is no longer around. She looks at this site and it reminds her of happy times.
Is this porn(I'm asking for oppinions)?

my mate just said that somebody could allways find out where the site is served from and go round with a pair of wire cutters.
Not that i'm saying that it would be a
good idea or anything.

[ 24-07-2001: Message edited by: Thrasher ]

[ 24-07-2001: Message edited by: Thrasher ]
 
 
grant
18:47 / 24.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Thrasher:

An old lady that had a family with grand children, but that family is no longer around. She looks at this site and it reminds her of happy times.
Is this porn(I'm asking for oppinions)?


I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but....



[ 24-07-2001: Message edited by: grant ]
 
 
Ellis
18:51 / 24.07.01
Is that supposed to be a whole picture?

(Maybe they cut the pics up so they can't be downloaded by pervs?)
 
 
Ganesh
18:51 / 24.07.01
Tt. Nonce sense.
 
 
Mordant Carnival
19:50 / 24.07.01
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuughhhhhhh!
 
 
The Puck
09:56 / 25.07.01
quote: if i had a cute dog i could put up on the web and make money off, id do that to

Fucker
 
 
Anaconda Jones
00:44 / 26.07.01
Gross. The parents should be shot. This is the problem with letting just anyone breed.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:16 / 26.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Anaconda Jones:
This is the problem with letting just anyone breed.


Please reassure me you're just trying to wind someone up...
 
 
Johnny Mother
07:16 / 26.07.01
While looking for a copy of 'Lot And His Daughters', I came across (not literally) a rather disturbing site- artisticforms.com.

At least the above 'girl model' sites are vaguely honest about their malicious intent, this site boasts fully-nude girls aged from about 8 to 18 all for 'arts sake'.

For fucks sake, I know you can dip a tv in a formaldahyde tank and put it on a second-hand sofa and call it 'art', but this is fucked-up.

I quote the The Mirror when I say "Ban this sick filth now!"
 
 
GRIM
07:16 / 26.07.01
What if access was restricted to young boys rather than dirty old men? . . .

(Out there idea particle meet brain, hello brain, hello out there idea particle, listen to this....)

GRIM
 
 
Thrasher
15:58 / 26.07.01
If that pic that grant posted is a pic of a little girl then i retract the theoretical sinario that i posted before......

THAT IS PROPER FUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
Ellis
18:12 / 26.07.01
But if those pictures on artforums (some of which are disturbing in themselves while others are just plain nudes with no sexual overtones) were placed in an art gallery instead of an internet webpage, would it be considered art?

This happened a few months ago didnt it with some woman taking nude pictures of her kids on a beach and putting them in a gallery.

Incidentally, can pages like this be reported to someone? Cause you know... it just seems wrong and I find it hard to believe it is legal.
 
 
The Mr E suprise
07:08 / 27.07.01
As far as I'm aware, these sites are legal.

Not sure what the exact letter of the law is on this, I'd imagine the phrasing "children in apparent danger" comes into it.

(you could argue that the children on these sites are "in danger" but its not "apparent" The child is not in distress. It has be strict otherwise it could apply to family photos etc, which, according to a friend on the FPU, paedophiles also attempt to acquire.)

The way it works in the UK (I think) is if they suspect you have that kind of shit they confiscate everything that could contain an image and charge you (max sentence is a year, I think, and you go the Sex offenders list.)

I believe it's handled by the Family Protection Unit, which is certainly underfunded in England, not sure about Scotland or Wales.

It occurs to me that these sites have the credit card details (and therefore the addresses) of its users.

Sting operations would be illegal of course, (at least in the UK, Jack Straw wants to change this law though) as would leaking this information to random thugs/the news of world.
 
 
Anaconda Jones
11:47 / 29.07.01
quote:Originally posted by The Flyboy:


Please reassure me you're just trying to wind someone up...


Of course I am. But I start to wonder what's up when I see stuff like parents putting peddy-lure pics of their kids up to make money "for the kid's college fund".

I doubt the Coogan law will cover these children and the income they earn from this little entertainment venture won't be protected from the parents.

The most likely outcome of this is that daddy and mommy will be getting a brand new bass boat courtesy of pictures of Tiffani in her bunny undies.

This lumped on top of some of the other parenting related disasters that have been in the news lately make me wonder about the future of the human race.

[ 29-07-2001: Message edited by: Anaconda Jones ]
 
 
Mordant Carnival
15:21 / 29.07.01
Christ on a bike- how can anyone even consider doing this? It's almost as creepy as those evil kiddy pageants. It's not like people are naive about pedophilia these days. I have this nightmare vision of two parents watching their sprog in the paddling pool, exchanging a glance, and- kerCHING! Cartoon dollar signs apper in their eyes. Or maybe they born with dollar-sign eyes, I dunno.
 
 
Ganesh
15:28 / 29.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Mordant Carnival:
It's not like people are naive about pedophilia these days.


It's all child abuse, sexual or otherwise - and we all know parents who fuck their children are far, far more common than the semi-mythical 'sex beast'...
 
 
Anaconda Jones
18:35 / 29.07.01
Ok. I took the risk of triggering Echelon, FBI, and state surveillance and looked at the child super model site - only the first page as I wasn't about to join.

It was stomach turning that a parent would put that up. Gross. It is blatantly appealing to the worst sorts of people. Really revolting: "16 years old - want to see her in a bikini?, Pigtail heaven?, Modelpure?". I feel ill.

They are trying to cover it as 'modeling'. Try again. You don't see those sorts of expressions or poses on a legitimate child models comp card.

Yes - it's pedo-tease porn.
 
 
Mordant Carnival
20:05 / 29.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Anaconda Jones:
I feel ill.


You're not alone there. I suppose there's no point in contacting the web hosts and complaining?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:23 / 30.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Anaconda Jones:
This lumped on top of some of the other parenting related disasters that have been in the news lately make me wonder about the future of the human race.


Indeed. But I find that the suggestion of eugenics as a viable solution also has this effect on me...
 
 
Anaconda Jones
12:39 / 30.07.01
In the future I will make sure my sarcasm is more PC.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:08 / 30.07.01
Alternatively, look at it this way: if you're going to take the moral highground, try not to throw out ideas which are deeply morally problematic in the same breath. It's not a question of 'PC' (and I'm not sure I even recognise what you mean by this term in this context).

I'm also not sure you were being sarcastic - I suspect you mean that you were just kidding, which is something else altogether. And really, "the wrong people are breeding" isn't something you can kid about and not expect some kind of reaction...
 
 
MJ-12
13:40 / 30.07.01
Indeed, while these people may be uttlerly incapable of raising children, their genetic material may be prefectly usable.
 
 
Anaconda Jones
15:18 / 30.07.01
quote:Originally posted by The Flyboy:

I'm also not sure you were being sarcastic - I suspect you mean that you were just kidding, which is something else altogether. And really, "the wrong people are breeding" isn't something you can kid about and not expect some kind of reaction...


Since I am too dim to sort out the difference between kidding and sarcastic pick the one you prefer. And while I did expect a reaction, I wasn't expecting to be taken seriously and accused of being Dr. Mengele due to a two-line post.

If eugenics is a subject you wish to start a topic on - I think it would be interesting, but I am not going to get into a debate in this thread. I already explained my previous post.

So, not arguing with everyone's right to bear children, what are the ethics and responsibilities of parenthood? What is society's role in child rearing? Should the government EVER step in? What is the place of a child in society? Does a child "belong" to the parents in such a manner that they should be able to do what they please with it? Profit from it, no matter how unethical it seems? Which seems to be where we came in.

Anaconda.

Who from now on will keep her mouth shut.

[ 30-07-2001: Message edited by: Anaconda Jones ]
 
 
The Mr E suprise
06:26 / 02.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Anaconda Jones:

Who from now on will keep her mouth shut.

[ 30-07-2001: Message edited by: Anaconda Jones ]


Oh don't do that. I too am of the school of type,think,then type again. Occasionally I get me terms wrong. Someone normally points this out. Fair Enough.

OK, the "raising people/eugenics" thread is already underway.

But, getting back on topic, how should we deal with this kind of exploitation? Ignore it? Tell the world that this kind of shit happens and get them to email the ISP with a complaint? Send on of those awful "send a letter to your mp" style emails?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
08:08 / 02.08.01
I don't know how you could successfully deal with this particular type of site. If they're operating within the limits of the law - no child nudity, no sexual behaviour, all that kind of thing - then it'd be exceedinly difficult to get them yanked. An ISP might consider their content dubious - if it breached the agreement they signed when joining that host, they could yank the site, I'd guess - but switching ISPs isn't that big a deal; hell, they could host it on a box in their lounge-room if worst came to worst.

It's difficult. I guess the easiest way would be if there was some proof that the child had been forced into the shoots under duress, wouldn't it? At least then, child protection agencies would have to investigate.
 
 
07:55 / 08.08.01
quote:Originally posted by The Mr E suprise:


...how should we deal with this kind of exploitation? Ignore it? Tell the world that this kind of ---- happens and get them to email the ISP with a complaint? Send on of those awful "send a letter to your mp" style emails?


Gosh, perhaps one of those evil hackers we keep hearing about might trash the server or something. Not that I agree with hacking, cracking or any other form of computer naughtiness, of course...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
08:17 / 08.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Laughing Tiger:
Gosh, perhaps one of those evil hackers we keep hearing about might trash the server or something.

...which would be good, but you also run the risk of fucking up all the other websites on the box - if it's a professional hosting place, it's probably shared; the place that does my hosting shoves a stack of websites on each server...
 
 
Shortfatdyke
06:49 / 14.08.01
actually i can't help but agree with the gist of what ananconda's said: my g/f is a teacher and spends most of her time piecing together kids who've been horrendously damaged by their parents and cannot even sit in a classroom without freaking out. of course i know there should be more support for some families, but i can't help but ask why a lot of people have kids, cos they obviously don't want them.

and then there are those that use 'em like property and put dodgy pictures up on the net for money. i know people who were passed around the family for sexual abuse when they were kids. someone has to stop this shit, you know?
 
  

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