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Dragons

  
  

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Olulabelle
19:02 / 11.03.05
I've been thinking about dragons again lately, partly because my son wants to be a Dragonologist as a result of this book which he found in the children's myths and legends section of Waterstones. So I've been looking them up.

And then I found out that here they very nearly be...

Dragons. March 20th at 8pm on Animal Planet. Which is exciting.
 
 
akira
09:51 / 12.03.05
It was on channel 3 or 4 last week. I loved it. The mating ritual involved them locking talons/feet then free falling whilst corkscrewing only to break off and pull up at the last second before impact, I think they said it was a test of trust. Nice.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
15:22 / 12.03.05
I recommend the book "The Cosmic Serpent" by Jeremy Narby, excellent tract that pretty much answers these questions.
 
 
sine
15:46 / 12.03.05
Grant: damn, I thought I was the only person in the world to know about the Peter Dickenson 'dragons-as-blimps' theory. Just out of curiosity, did you ever see the animated feature based loosely thereupon?

As for Dragons generally, I think that the notion of a fire-breathing monster is as mythically predictable as the notion of a human with wings. Explaining the conjunction of that 'breath weapon' attribute with reptilian features is a little harder to explain, though it is after all by no means universal. The iconic Chinese dragon is chimeric and not especially reptilian; other versions tend to bring the concept of 'dragon' closer to 'wyrm' or 'serpent'. Since snakes have venom and a tongue that flickers like a flame, it isn't too much reach to imagine a serpent that belches smoke and fire etc.

I did a lot of work with dragon spirits in my youth; I found them not unlike salamanders in their temper, but without the capriciousness or tantrums and of more general application. They proved quite helpful once one had 'proved' themselves to them.

For many years I had a dracoform servitor that accompanied me in an advisory and protective capacity during astral projection experiments. I never had the heart to dissolve him after the experiments ended, even though I knew better.
 
 
akira
18:13 / 13.03.05
"Here drink this, its a dissolved dracoform servitor", "Should get over your cold in no time".
 
 
grant
18:30 / 14.03.05
Grant: damn, I thought I was the only person in the world to know about the Peter Dickenson 'dragons-as-blimps' theory. Just out of curiosity, did you ever see the animated feature based loosely thereupon?

No! Was it as "scientific" as the book?
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
18:57 / 14.03.05
according to "the 21 lessons of Merlyn" by Douglas Monroe
(some of which I encourage to take with a grain of salt or two), suggests the following:

"...the Druids viewed the entire energy system of the Earth as a single manifestation of The Dragon - alling the magnetic ley lines which criss-cross the surfacce of the globe 'Dragon Lines.'"

there's much more, but that's the most intriguing bit that i didn't notice elsewhere in this thread (unless i missed it altogether - it happens).

happy daze
pablo
 
 
sine
20:41 / 14.03.05
No! Was it as "scientific" as the book?

No, sadly, they really only skirt it: the explanations become necessary when Peter Dickenson gets accidentally turned into a dragon and has to have the ways of his people explained to him: don't breathe too much fire or you'll lose altitude, etc. It was pretty standard fantasy fare in many respects, with a peculiar (and maybe ironic) science-versus-magic twist. The book Flight of Dragons itself does make an appearance however, in a "Library of Unfinished Books" no less, lending a nice Borgesian tangled loop. I enjoyed it a great deal as a kid, and sometimes still find myself singing the theme song of the same name while hiking. Worth watching if you, like me, enjoy the book and cartoons about vanquishing evil sorcerers.
 
 
_Boboss
08:31 / 15.03.05
well, it wasn't like fred and barney would have you believe, that's for sure, but the early humes did mix it up with beasties that near-as-arseholes could pass for dragons or dinosaurs:

there's this chap (scroll down some), Megalania Prisca, who was basically an even bigger komodo dragon (though geographical isolation is a phshaw!! worth remembering here - i.e. WOULD in fact many humes have seen him given the fact he's in the middle of australia?). i remember a documentary about Megalania - big, fast bastard with a mouth full of sepsis bugs and stuff - a single bite would have been mortal due to infection, which would have looked like poison to the folk at the time, and it's breath, according to a best guess, would have stunk like fuck, hence some association with dangerous fiery breath. the fire association was explained too, basically that it would take about thirty men to kill one of these buggers in a spear-fight, so basically we lived in mortal fear until we discovered fire then, next time a Megalania popped up, burnt down the whole goddamn forest. they extinctified quite soon once we figured that one out. go humans.

there's also, erm, been reading some 'grail kings' mongsense lately: dragons as heraldic emblems are 'explained' as early sumerian symbols of tiamat, i.e chaos or water, that primal 'ness' that creation crawled out from. this becomes codified over the years, apparently, onto a more general symbol perhaps describable as a general 'source of mystery' tied to female sexuality and yin energies. through oppression of the female by the dominant sun-god cults the symbol becomes applied to anything suppressed or verboten, sex magic, paganism, sexual equality, and, here's the biggie, jesus' bloodline. ah. had to be dinnit?

my current favourite interpretation of a dragon myth is the midgard serpent of norse tradition(fafnir? sorry, my main sources for vikish tradition are messers kirby and simonson). heard on the radio that one of the currently-supposed theories for its origin is the horizon, imagined as a snake with it's tale in its mouth: the boundary of everything whether you go from sea to mountain peak, encircling the earth, at once strangling, limiting it and holding it in due place.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
15:51 / 18.03.05
Random tangent:

A previous poster mentioned the Lampton Worm. I remember this story...our crazy Grade 1 teacher made us perform it, complete with a big paper worm that, IIRC, one of the students chopped into thirds. It's a wonderful little poem...full of guts and gore. I did some searching online, and found a version of it.

Oh yeah, and the performance from The Lair of the White Worm...that was great. No chorus, but it was a good rendition of the song (beats the hell out of twenty first graders performing a choral rescitation). Movie's crap, but its worth just fastforwarding to the end credits for the song.

One Sunday morn young Lambton
Went a-fishin' in the Wear;
An' catched a fish upon his huek,
He thowt leuk't varry queer,
But whatt'n a kind a fish it was
Young Lambton couldn't tell.
He waddn't fash to carry it hyem,
So he hoyed it in a well.

Chorus:

Whisht! lads, haad yor gobs,
Aa'll tell ye aall and aaful story,
Whisht! lads, haad yor gobs,
An' Aal tell ye 'bout the worm.

Noo Lambton felt inclined to gan
An' fight in foreign wars.
He joined a troop o' Knights that cared
For neither wounds nor scars,
An' off he went to Palestine
Where queer things him befel,
An' varry seun forgot aboot
The queer worm i' the well.

(Chorus)

But the worm got fat an' growed an' growed,
An' growed an aaful size;
He'd greet big teeth, a greet big gob,
An' greet big goggle eyes.
An' when at neets he craaled aboot
To pick up bits o'news,
If he felt dry upon the road,
He milked a dozen coos.

(Chorus)

This feorful worm wad often feed
On calves an' lambs an' sheep,
An' swally little bairns alive
When they laid doon to sleep.
An' when he'd eaten aal he cud
An' he had has he's fill,
He craaled away an' lapped his tail
Seven times roond Pensher Hill.

(Chorus)

The news of this most aaful worm
An' his queer gannins on
Seun crossed the seas, gat to the ears
Of brave an' bowld Sir John.
So hyem he cam an' catched the beast
An' cut 'im in three halves,
An' that seun stopped he's eatin' bairns,
An' sheep an' lambs and calves.

(Chorus)

So noo ye knaa hoo aall the folks
On byeth sides of the Wear
Lost lots o' sheep an' lots o' sleep
An' lived in mortal feor.
So let's hev one to brave Sir John
That kept the bairns frae harm
Saved coos an' calves by myekin' haalves
O' the famis Lambton Worm

Chorus:

Noo lads, Aa'll haad me gob,
That's aall Aa knaa aboot the story
Of Sir John's clivvor job
Wi' the aaful Lambton Worm!
 
 
eye landed
11:53 / 20.03.05
genetic memory. whats the fuss about genetic memory? its not like we are remembering specific incidents in the life of a shrew 100 000 000 years ago. dragons are a carefully 'evolved' predator-prey relationship: mammals fear them. not just dinosaurs. birds and snakes too: the banes of small (and primitive/ancestral) mammals everywhere. (note that both birds and snakes 'evolved' from a common reptiloid ancestor. interesting to know what the mammal family was up to during the evolution of snakes and birds respectively.)

chimpanzees dont have a complex language, but they have specific warning cries for danger from predatory birds, snakes, and cats. these three predators represent a triad of destructive forces (jotun) which must be balanced by a surviving organism. the precise animals in question fill the important archetypal niches in rather a lot of ecosystems, which is why they appear as symbols. birds are the airy ahrimanic force (steiner); their super power is flight, which lets them observe and strategize from a distance, but they are vulnerable to superior cleverness (arrows?). snakes are the earthly luciferic force (steiner again); theyve got venom and stealth, which leaves them as a symbol for the unconscious because they strike without warning. cats are mammals, and thus a more balanced totem (a mediator?); their superpowers are pretty much what any mammal has--intelligence and reflexes--but they specialize in killing you with them.

bear with me here.

dragons are intelligent, flying serpents (breath weapon~venom?), so they fill all the roles. as a dramatic amalgam, it makes sense that they are 'fantasy' creatures, so i dont expect to see a live specimen.

other chimeric mediators exist: cockatrices, griffins, feathered serpents...and of course amalgams of other creatures besides.

it wasnt just st george who slew a dragon. archangel me-ka-el did one in too. one must assume it had a lot to do with the one in the garden. and beowulf, but he is less famous for that.

long are a bit different. they arent predators. (though they might eat you. i could see them jumping on the bandwagon with that embarassing virgin-eating fashion.) perhaps the chinese recognized that a creature with such well cultivated conduct wouldnt obsess too much over its food. but they still worried about tigers and snakes, as any halfway intelligent human would. we are too clever for birds now (hitchcock aside), but the brawn (terrrestrial) advantage is likely more important.
 
  

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