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Calling all "dream warriors"...

 
  

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gravitybitch
04:34 / 10.04.03
There's a lovely essay by Eric Davis about manipulative deployment of imaginative possibility as used by Bush and Co., and I'd love some speculation about reprogramming popular culture (or at least some subcultures) to lessen the impact of The Dark Side as embodied by the current power structures as embodied by USUK (thank you, Xoc, for that bit of shorthand!).

Possibilities include group dream work aka "Integrative Dream Narration" - anybody want to help me cook up a narrative?
 
 
gravitybitch
04:41 / 10.04.03
Shit shit shit shit.... the link for group dream work is bogus! Somehow, it's going to "Jenna and her friends" - don't use it.
 
 
gravitybitch
04:45 / 10.04.03


group dream work should work much better!
 
 
illmatic
17:02 / 10.04.03
Iszabelle: That Erik Davis essay is fantastic. Bush and co. - like something from The Shadow Tarot on the loose. Going to have to digest the other two before I make a more thoughtful response.

Things seem to be marginally saner in the UK - a more sceptical press is probably helping here and an (everso slightly) left administration, but this might change rapidly when (note: I don't say "if") terrorist attacks occur.
 
 
gravitybitch
02:55 / 11.04.03
Yeah - those texts on Integrative Dream Narration, as written, don't apply exactly to what I want to try.

I'm reading their procedure as group ritual with the general outcome of some dream interpretation, some conflict resolution, some divination... using each person's conscious presence and contribution of dream imagery/bit of hir subconscious speaking to hir.

(Other interpretations are very welcome - this is very exploratory on my part...)

What I'm interested in doing is A) exploring the myths and imaginative possibilities that Bush&Co are exploiting, and B) coming up with opposing myths and imaginative possibilities, using similar techniques. I'd also like to see about propagating those oppositional myths, maybe condensing them into easy-to-spread memes, perhaps creating the dreaded and ill-defined narrative hypersigil from it all... but that's all provisional.

Who wants to play? Who wants to contribute dreamstuff (or other participatory energy)?
 
 
*
03:07 / 11.04.03
I want to play. Not sure how to go about it, however. I'm envisioning creation of a viral dream servitor which would present ideas contrary to the dominant propaganda in a form which bypasses the automatic resistance, but not force people to agree with them. Flavors to include are encouragement of critical thought, optimism as well as skepticism, and unity of humanity. Does this sound like a doable thing or am I hallucinating in a vastly different way from the rest of you folks?
 
 
Perfect Tommy
23:16 / 11.04.03
My thoughts here are awfully scattered--I'm basically waving my hand shouting "Pick me!" but I don't know what/how to contribute. (I've printed out the articles pointed at for further absorption.) Random first impressions...

* Potentially important idea is this from Xoc:

The public are likely to swing behind the war in increasing numbers as our triumphant boys show that Saddam a thing or two and, with well edited hindsight, the narrative presented of this military excursion will tell a Churchillian tale of plucky USUK fighting for freedom. Just as we now know the Second World War was fought principally to stop Hitler's genocide of the Jews and the entrenchment of Stalin in the East of Europe was entirely incidental. We need voices raised against that airbrushing of history.

* I have no TV, so I'm not watching as much propaganda as I could be. Is that an obstacle to exploration of the current Bush&Co dream production?

* I'd point out that the current anti-administration agenda is *also* one of fear--fear of erosion of civil liberties, fear of more terrorist attacks... is there some way we should be working with the current countermythology? Enhance it? Piggy-back something more optimistic and less fear-based on it? Ignore it completely?
 
 
gravitybitch
01:04 / 12.04.03
Great questions, Perfect Tommy! Ummn, I don't have any answers, though.

Absolutely, we need to keep history from being rewritten. Osama bin Laden wasn't in Iraq... and there have been no non-US weapons of mass destruction found yet.

I'm not sure what to do with the anti-administration fears - those seem to have a better basis in fact than the fears that the administration is riding on. Our civil liberties are being eroded in a very alarming way and I don't want to minimize that at all.

A thought just occurred to me. Maybe the administration is promoting fear because they're afraid? Meanwhile, "we" don't need to be afraid of the things that frighten a bunch of old rich white men, because WE are what they're afraid of! "Our" diversity of culture, gender, race, religion, and sexuality scares the shit out of "them."
I suspect that might be a meme worth spreading.
 
 
ciarconn
02:07 / 14.04.03
I want to participate. I have been thinking about this theme for some days, since you posted it. Even consulted with my father and my father-in-law. I'll take my time, if you do not mind, to think about how to do it.

As for their objectives, think what do they win out of makeing everybody afraid. A growingly egocentric quasiculture. Segregation and anger.

An initial idea would be to work like viruses. Do not swim against the current, use it. Change their message to the right way. Viral memes riding inside their own viral memes.

I'll be around, even if I do not write. I like this, but it's way to big and heavy.
 
 
gravitybitch
14:34 / 15.04.03
....bump....

Myths that the Bush administration is propagating/depending on:

That there are, in this complex and interconnected world, clear-cut binary divisions: such a thing as a Black/White division between "Good" and "Evil" or that Bush can say, "You're either with us or against us," and make it work...

...and, obviously, that Bush&Co are the good guys...

Bush is operating from a personal myth that he's doing God's work (thanks to Jack Fear for this link), and probably has made the short but dubious jump to what he does is God's will. I thought we'd gotten rid of the idea of the Divine Rights of Kings centuries ago... but it may be one to take advantage of - Bush as a tragic and obsolete boy-king figure in a modern world of proper democracies.

There's more myths out there...
 
 
illmatic
20:13 / 15.04.03
I likea dis thread, so I second that bump...

still a bit stuck on practical ideas though..

One thing that comes to midn is something I mentioned on the big Barbelith thread - the idea of peace workings and the like as creating a collective glamour, and letting it loose. Nema's Maat Magick seems a good example of this. Perhaps we could see Barbelith as playing the same function.

First random idea of the top of my head - we could try and dream some related ideas, and pass them round to create a collective dream narrative as suggested on the second of those links - see what emerges?

Alternatively, if we're entering into that "love your enemy" thing, mediatating on points of similarity between "us" and "them" - after all, if Robert Anton Wilson can open his heart to Richard Nixon (or whoever it was - see Cosmic Trigger) can't we do it to Bush and Blair?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
22:13 / 15.04.03
A myth that needs to be tuned up a little is the one that Christian or even "Anglophone" culture is defending itself against an Islamic upstart that is corrupt and predatory. Everyone once in a while you'll see some pundit or journo vaguely refer to Mesopotamia or somesuch, but I'd like to see some specifics.
 
 
Olulabelle
22:23 / 15.04.03
What about people who have heaps of dreaming skills but don't know much about magickal theory (yet)? Would we be useful?

If so, I should like to participate, I think this is a really interesting idea.
 
 
Potguns
00:17 / 16.04.03
Just a quick to reply to say "me too"
hell if you sleep for 12 hours a day you eventually pick up a plethora of dreaming skills. I havent got a strong magical basing tho...

Just point me in the right direction...
Pot.
 
 
gravitybitch
01:17 / 16.04.03
OK - sounds like there are enough interested parties that I need to get some ideas past the half-baked stage...

Premise: Bush&Co are manipulating public thought and perception not only by overt control of the media during wartime, but also by choosing language to reference myths and cultural fears, frame debates in terms of religious metaphors, play on peoples' subconscious terrors... etc.

I want to explore the myths and themes and meta-themes behind the propaganda. (I'm not very good at this sort of thing - tend to shut out the message and messenger and everything when I feel like I'm being manipulated.) I'd like to be able to counter some of the most pernicious half- and un-truths, and need to do some of it on the same battle-ground of non-rational language and mythic references.

Which is where dream-work comes in... Ritual and the language of the subconscious mind can be used to re-imagine/re-frame what Bush&Co are doing, expose fallacies, and maybe mount a counteroffensive attack...

That's basic theory. If you have critiques, please post - this is a work in progress!!
 
 
gravitybitch
01:36 / 16.04.03
Practice:

I want to gather a bunch of dream images from folks from full-blown narratives to whatever bits and pieces people might be comfortable donating, as well as historical bits and plots from myths and Bible stories, and jumble those together with the propaganda that the administration is churning out to find ways of reframing that propaganda.

Example - references to "the madness of Prince George." It's a play on King George, obviously, with references to the fact that this is Bush the Younger - being less powerful or with too much to prove. Visuals are Dubbya in an oversized throne, with a too-big crown sliding off-kilter... (political cartoons are a great source for this sort of imagery!)

I also want to use the donated dream and mythic imagery to generate narratives in dream-language that would be contrary to the propaganda, refute it...
 
 
gravitybitch
02:28 / 16.04.03
Things to do (and everyhody can contribute, whether or not you've got a magickal practice established) -

Pick one or two of the administration's most damaging myths, meditate on it along with whatever dream imagery has been donated, post what comes up as if it was a pathworking. Or do a divination - I Ching or cards will probably be more useful than gematria.

Create a narrative from the various dream-bits (like the way the piece on disinfo.com was created). Post here.

It might be fun to create a group narrative as collaborative fiction in the Creation forum, if people post enough bits to use...

Interesting narratives might be the subject of a group meditation or charging, with the intent of launching them into the collective unconscious to fuck with the administration's powerbase...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
20:35 / 16.04.03
Are we trying to get this to leave the board in some way? How? Or is that a bridge we'll cross later?
 
 
*
21:07 / 16.04.03
Qalyn, I'm somewhat confused about this as well. The way this is being approached seems like a great technique for dealing with the propaganda and its internal effects, but not as much counteracting the effects in the wider world. Or am I missing something obvious? I certainly will lend my energy to this project, and dream imagery as well, as soon as I'm well-rested enough to have any recall (school is taking a toll on me just now). But I would like to do something else as well that will bring this project into the bigger picture, maybe the viral dream servitor I mentioned early in this thread. It seems the two ideas should converge, I'm just not quite sure how. Suggestions? Comments? Bite my head off?
 
 
Perfect Tommy
03:22 / 17.04.03
I interpret the plan as dream-exploration of the myths that are floating around--astral reconnaissance, yeah? Afterward we'll start hammering out countermessages. But we need to know the lay of the land first.
 
 
gravitybitch
05:25 / 17.04.03
This is primarily about exploration to start with - see "the lay of the land" (thank you, Tommy), develop a working vocabulary about the intersection of dreamstuff and social myths, but more as well. I'm just not entirely sure what that more should be, am hoping that next steps will become obvious.

(I'd like to believe that if we come up with group narratives that are counter to the current propaganda, and treat them as magickal things - charge like sigils - that we could launch them into the collective unconscious and affect/infect more than just ourselves with the ideas.
However, I suspect that other folk will have ideas as to what to do with this sort of group dreamwork, and I'm all for it!)
 
 
gravitybitch
14:02 / 21.04.03
Anybody want to post a dream here? Or give explicit permission to use dreams that have been posted in other threads?

Gathering dreams is the first step.
 
 
*
00:59 / 22.04.03
"I interpret the plan as dream-exploration of the myths that are floating around--astral reconnaissance, yeah? Afterward we'll start hammering out countermessages. But we need to know the lay of the land first." --Tommy

Ah, I understand. Makes sense.

My dream recall is shite lately. I'll repost the imagery I gave you already, iszabelle, but the only other dream snippet I've recalled in enough detail to be of use deals with personal stuff that's not really applicable here. I need to go get some B-complex.

Dream imagery: I am in a tree-shaded area, clear at ground level and not very dense, so I hesitate to say a forest. I am conscious of other people, in the distance, but they have nothing to do with me and I am not concerned by them. Instead, a grey bird on the ground captures my attention. It speaks to me in my mind, asking me to make it a necklace of twigs and vines. I do so, and it tells me I have made it its funeral wreath. The emotions attached to the scene are very much calm and at peace. I give the wreath to the bird, and it dies.

Don't know if this helps, or what bearing it may or may not have on the situation. I'll try to get something more obviously applicable.
 
 
gravitybitch
01:55 / 22.04.03
S'ok - the dream I woke up with this morning had to do with me being intimate with a local radio personality who hasn't been on the air for at least 5 years, wandering around through peoples' yards and doing vaguely clandestine things, having sex in a warm&fuzzy "fuck-buddy" sort of way that wasn't at all romantic...

I have *no* interpretations for that one.
 
 
Zhi
06:23 / 23.04.03
Some dream stuff to contribute....

befor sept 11 had a dream about an airplane crashing in my garden (i've since spoken to other people, who are not particularly into magic) and some of these, well at least two, have mentioned that they have had dreams of planes crashing on a regular basis and that it a long term fear of theirs - we all live or have lived under flight paths.

More recently I had a dream about a space ship landing in my local high street, people being scared and running away - also terrified myself - but then remembered it was a dream and went back to try to talk to the spaceman.

It seems to me that both of these dreams revolve around fear of things from the sky, the unknown, and powerlessness in the face of aparently overwelming odds.

In the real world i'd link this to the rising culture of fear - remember that pepole in the 'western' world are safer than they've ever been , but are more afraid of 'potential' risks in all walks of life.This seems now to have been manipulated into a desire for 'pre-emptive' protection. The irrational fear around SARS is another intresting manifestation of this.
 
 
ciarconn
00:15 / 24.04.03
Two or three days ago, I dreamt Clinton's face (seriously), and in the dream I was thinking "oh, how do we miss him now", and then serveral comments a[ppeared over his face (like if it was on a computer with text being written over) pointing that his image was false, built, un-real. Then I woke up trying to remember the dream (Just recalled it now, sorry)
 
 
Perfect Tommy
18:30 / 24.04.03
ciarconn's dovetails nicely with one of mine (I may be forgetting details, I'm away from my dream journal):

We* are walking through a virtual reality replay of the war. I think we may be embedded journalists. The resolution is amazing, total holodeck immersion, except that the colors are perhaps a little TOO vivid, the temperature too cool for a desert, and there's a subtle sense of being in a room of indeterminate size rather than the open air. Ronald Reagan narrated over the scene; his narration had been recorded before he died.**

We're walking in the open desert among Kurdish civilians when a battle breaks out, pretty close to our position. The civilians panic; we're a bit on edge as well even though we know it's a simulation. Suddenly, there is a gas attack--big yellow clouds of it. We actually start laughing, because we know that this didn't actually happen during the war--this is pure propaganda. But that doesn't stop us and the civilians from putting on "gas masks" which really just look like large black sacks over our heads.***

Once everyone's wearing their hoods, the Kurds run for cover toward a large bust (maybe washing machine size or a little smaller) of Reagan and start crawling into his mouth. "Twenty years ago, they were prepared," the voiceover says. "They have been conditioned to crawl into my mouth."




* - By "we" I mean us dream warriors. One of those "we"s where you know why you are talking about a group in your head, but you can't necessarily put a number to the group, or have names and faces. I won't recognize any of you on the street yet.

** - It wasn't until an hour or two after I woke up that I realized Reagan is still alive.

*** - Perhaps like would be worn by a hostage, or by a Ku Klux Klan member in black instead of white--these descriptions are in retrospect so y'all know what they look like, but there wasn't any emotional content (at least on the surface) attached of "Oh, of course--we're all hostages to THE MAN!"
 
 
Perfect Tommy
18:55 / 24.04.03
Here's another, posted by permission from Emperor Duck, originally posted immediately after the bombs started falling:

So I was in Iraq, wearing a gas mask and hanging out in a bunker with some reporters and Marines. Through the doorway we could see the glare of cruise missiles going one way, Scuds the other way. We left the bunker and drove WW2-style Jeeps through the Mile of Death. I didn't feel comfortable wearing only a hat and a scarf around all the radiation, so I put my gas mask back on. I ended up on some temporary Air Force base where F16s were taking off. I ended up flying, sans jet, around with the F16s trying to talk to them, to see why it was so important for them to be killing everybody on the ground. Behind me, I saw their base get destroyed, and they had nowhere to land. They bailed out of their jets and floated to the ground, and I flew down to them. I noticed they were wearing ballet leotards, but with swan outfits attached to the leotards. They didn't seem to feel uncomfortable in them, so I didn't want to make fun of them, but I was wondering what use swan outfits had in combat. There was fighting and talking to journalists and hanging out with Baghdadians involved, and then the last thing I remember was absolutely ludicrous.. the Pope was driving through Baghdad in the Pope-Mobile, and missiles, rockets, and bullets were bouncing off of the shield, and he looked grimly defiant as he drove on through the rubble.
 
 
illmatic
19:18 / 24.04.03
Here's one of mine, weirdly featuring you, Izabelle, tough yu seemed to have changed gender:

In in the 'States with Izabelle, and she picks me up and turns out to be a black guy. We're arguing about magickal results of stuff we did earlier and he says he sees this stuff as sleight of hand rather than magick. We stop somewhere and he picks up gas - I have to put handbrake on when he gets out and falls over and is covered in petrol. next we head out to meet his girlfriedn who gets in with several cokes. Then we go on, now been driven by an (American) Indian guy. We pass an artifical "mountain prarie" attraction and then we go up a big mountain - he points it out to me as Quezecoatal. I'm blissed out at the mountains striking and staggering hugeness. We go up it into a really amazing house where he drives the car up the stairs which fold up to form a smooth runway. Everything in the house is robotised like this.

Interestingly, I didn't incubate this dream - it happened spontaneously. The main symbol seemed to be the mountain - it had the feel of an archetypal symbol, perhaps why the Indian guy pointed it out to me. On analysis, I suppose this makes a contrast to the artifical environment we passed earlier (though I can't remmber what this looked like, dammit) but this may be me reading too much into it. I think I read the name "Quezecoatal" in the Dragons thread, a day or so before. Home of magick (ie. Dragons) vs. artifical imagery...?
 
 
grant
19:32 / 24.04.03
If you want Bible stories, be aware that the old kingdom of Babylon is in modern Iraq. That's where the Israelites were held in the second captivity. (This is why Rastafarians refer to the repressive outside world as Babylon.)

The Whore of Babylon - actually, a harlot who declares that her name is Babylon - is also prominent in the Book of Revelation. I suppose everyone knows that, but you can never tell. Some fundamentalists link the Whore with the Roman Catholic Church, but it's not that easy a fit. She's the consort of the Beast of Revelation. Well, one of them. (there's more than one. read at above link.)

Also, one of the signs of the End Times is a great army crossing the Euphrates River. Isaiah 11, Zechariah 9:10, Revelation 16.

From that last:
12The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13Then I saw three evil (unclean) spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
15"Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed."
16Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
17The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since man has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.


So. That's the famous "Battle of Armageddon."

Here's one useful Bible interpretation site that explains how this prophecy actually referred to the Jewish rebellion against Rome in 67 AD. But that ain't the way a lot of literalists see it.

Here's an OK guide to how current events fit into End Times prophecy from an atheist web site.

The basic Armageddon story: a coalition of armies allied behind the Antichrist wage a war against the forces of the Second Coming of Christ.

Possible narrative strategies: In a few of my End Times prophecy stories, I try to leave wiggle room so it's unclear which side is the Antichrist side. Since the Antichrist is a false, deceptive figure with great worldly power....
 
 
Perfect Tommy
21:32 / 24.04.03
Huh... yeah, you'd figure that the Antichrist would know he looks like the Antichrist ("Hi, I'm charismatic and powerful--uh, not evil though!"), so he'd pull a double-bluff.
 
 
Mr Tricks
00:06 / 25.04.03
Sorry I'm late all...

haven't hung in these parts for some time...

Need to fully re-read the thred but wanted to drop a few tidbits...

check out this website I smell some parrallels...

Was talking to a friend who had just attempted to "check in" on BUSH amidst a journey...this lead to a long discourse on filters & protections surounding this "person" or his "position" or his "place"

Also an initial thought inspired by something 'belle said.

With "The Administration" fostering the FEAR of "the other" particularly with a label like "terrorist" then how could BRAVERY be used to de-claw that label or illuminate a closer identification with the "other."
The average American probably is probably much more similar to what "The Administration" considers "terrorist" than the average american is similar to a member of "The Administration"

gotta go...

KUDOS 'belle

 
 
gravitybitch
16:12 / 27.04.03
Very surreal dream this morning... The outsider was the primary character in the dream, and my viewpoint slipped from third person to first person and back through "suspension of disbelief."
One of the first scenes I remember was her at school, slipping into the boys' bathroom to use the toilet. There were two boys in there, functioning as "guards" - apparently there were gangs running the bathrooms - but the two guards were in one of the stalls, didn't see her...

Another scene is her slipping out of her house after midnight, taking a bus out to the beach where there's sort of a fairground/rough neighborhood (sort of a cross between Haight Street and the boardwalk from the movie Lost Boys) and she pays up and goes into a club. There's music, dancing, somewhat discrete drug use and underage drinking... but this club is also a portal into a sort of dream-dimension. Somebody she knows talks her into going through the portal, and they play tourists there - I don't remember much of that.

Back in mundane reality, she slips into the boys' bathroom again, is in a stall when the gang boss comes in and starts disciplining the guards for "sitting down on the job" - just on general principles, not because she's in there. Some guy comes in, decides this is not the place to be, and somehow catches a glimpse of her on his way out and I just know this is going to be trouble... but she catches him in the little anteroom between the hallway and bathroom, wraps a towel around his throat and works magick so that he can't talk about her. She seems to have graduated from outsider to goth witch.

Then there's another late night, she goes to the club again, walks in without paying and nobody says anything. She goes into the dream dimension again, has further adventures - involving trying to rescue a freind who got kidnapped by demons for videotaping something she shouldn't have seen, and a pair of scented earrings, and this weird mansion/public building with a sunken rotunda that had retracting staircases... and helicopters at the beach involved in some sort of rescue for a catamaran.

I couldn't find my dream diary this morning, so this is all many hours old and much more scattered than dreams usually are...
 
 
Potguns
17:51 / 27.04.03
Had a dream last night where Tony Blair was doing Carol Vorderman's job in countdown. He was picking the letters and making them into his own words whilst being overly nice about it in a kinda "I know im doing this wrong but im the good guy" kinda manner. Seemed to be a lot more vocal than he has been recently like when he was first attempting to get into power with his "let me have a chance" speeches.

Cant for the life of me remember what the words said though.

Oh and for those in the US countdown is a UK word quiz where you get a load of letters and whoeever makes the longest word gets more points.

Anyone got any interpretations? I've got vague ideas but nowt set in stone.
 
 
illmatic
19:44 / 27.04.03
Potguns - to me it sounds like it's a representation of TB playing to the public, trying to manipulate opinion and get people on his side - after all he nearly lost his job over the War, and would've resigned if the Commons vote went against him.
 
  

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