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Barbelith Bill of Rights...

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pointless and uncalled for

16:18 / 12.03.02

True, that is certainly issue but in honesty we've both seen times when innocent questions have been met with full-scale nuclear assault of a response and that's where I sought to provide protection against abuse.

Refering to people as a bunch of ********'s is precluded by the trolling clause.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:29 / 12.03.02

Hmm. Yes, I see what you mean. There's definately room for a "Back off, Pink Ranger!" clause.

Edited to say that the above is a BtVS/Power Rangers reference, and the pinkness of the ranger has no political significance, and I watch far too much telly, don't I?

18:07 / 12.03.02

I reserve the right to be surprised by anyone at any time.

I accept the responsibility to be surprised by anyone at any time.

11:37 / 14.03.02

At the risk of reiterating, can I pull this point back out for a brief kickaround?

originally posted by H: quote:There is division between opinion and expression but there is also division between person and opinion. Such divisions should be observed if you seek to alter the view of another through education.

beat me to something i was going to say about respect for people being of probably greater worth than respect for opinions. To use the earlier example of "All women are bitches", I'm never going to respect such an opinion, but could be convinced to respect the person holding it. If they were able to take that step back and attempt to give some reasons why they have arrived at it. Which they won't have the chance to do if I jump straight down their throat and call them a twat. A genuine probing of those reason could end with the happy result of said person changing their views, rather than storming off thinking "Fuck those non - misogynist Barbelith wankers" and bolstering their erroneous opinions. Plus, understanding why anyone could ever end up thinking "all women are bitches" (or whatever) would probably be a good thing for me. education, like the man said.

Other than that, Mordant's hypothetical article was pretty rockin'.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:05 / 14.03.02

quote:Originally posted by a Man Called Lentil:
beat me to something I was going to say about respect for people being of probably greater worth than respect for opinions. To use the earlier example of "All women are bitches", I'm never going to respect such an opinion, but could be convinced to respect the person holding it.

With you on that (although some of us did actually try to engage the "All women are bitches" guy and are currently regretting it as a big fat waste of their time).

If we all pile in like a ton of bricks every time someone says something off-colour or offensive, we risk missing the opportunity to swing them round to a more positive way of thinking.

pointless and uncalled for

12:19 / 12.04.02

Now that we're in a new era of barbelith I thought that this could do with being bought to the fore.

I get this feeling there may be a few infractions on what has been stated and such there either needs to be a shift in attitude or more likely a redrafting required.

12:42 / 12.04.02

Perhaps a loosening... Hmmm... I think maybe I should assemble something over the weekend, and then we can debate issues one by one...

pointless and uncalled for

12:50 / 12.04.02

It may be beneficial to the board if you did. There have been a number of comments recently regarding the nature of the board since the change. A number of them are showing a negative slant.

You should consider though that the benefits of the a Bill of Rights are only of value if people agree to abide by them which will lead to the question of what happens when someone's barbelith rights are infringed upon?

13:49 / 12.04.02

Reviewing the thread, and in reference to persons who may be narrowmindedly bigoted or otherwise found offensive due to their views:

You have the right to ignorance. Nobody knows everything, and in a forum full of intellectuals every time you open your mouth you run the fair chance of being wrong about something.

With this right comes the responsibility that you listen when people try to set you straight, and learn from the discussion.

Hmm. You know, I really like that format. Follow each right with an accompanying responsibility.

Right: ignorance
Responsibility: learning, open-mindedness

Right: speech
Responsibility: sensitivity to audience

Right: being offended
Responsibility: reacting in such a was as to work towards resolution rather than escelation

Right: talking about your sex life
Responsibility: having to listen to other people talk about their sex lives

We're The Great Old Ones Now

13:54 / 12.04.02

Cusm is wise.

As to sanctioning the evil people, I say we go to their country and bomb the place flat, then complain when they don't say "thank you", then offer them billions of pounds in aid and keep almost all of it to pay debts they aren't responsible for running up.

I say, Barbelith is Yugoslavia, and the sooner you all realise that, the easier NATO will make it on us.

(It has been an unusual day.)

18:00 / 12.04.02

I would like the right to admit I'm wrong without having to eat too much humble pie.

I would also like the right not to reply.

Um, I guess I like the right to ignore posts button, not that I use it, and I like that I can ignore areas of the board which don't interest me or that I see little sense in arguing over, and I like the idea of a right to expect the board to be free of spam. I'm not so sure of the right to be free of trolls, but then I guess that's why I like the ignore button. I know this is a little late in the day, but could the ignore button be used to bar users from the board? Like if a user has a certain % of the boards users ignoring them they can be autmatically barred? I guess I'm aware of the fact that the troll issue is sensitive but this is my first foray here, I saw the topic header on the front page and thought I'd look.

I guess the right to access is the most valuable one?

19:43 / 12.04.02

Like if a user has a certain % of the boards users ignoring them they can be autmatically barred?

Because, as we all know, the majority viewpoint is always correct.

19:51 / 12.04.02

It is certainly notable if there is a motion to run someone off the board if a substantial number of people have been blocking this person's posts. I wouldn't advocate a direct system of it, but its something Tom might want to look at, for example.

20:21 / 12.04.02

Because, as we all know, the majority viewpoint is always correct.

Isn't it less about being correct than letting the users control their environment?

20:23 / 12.04.02

Two things

Bio K9, you used to post as Chrome, right? God I've missed you, you twat.

Mordant, if some one labours under the misaprehension that [b]all[/b] women are bitches, leave them to it.

Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes

21:37 / 12.04.02

Flat lager a no-no,
but I have no problem,
with people wearing a kimono,
keep hope alive,
be inspired,
do what is required,
don’t be a slave,
don’t be mired,
consciousness is your legacy,
and basically required,
in barbelith,
the home of free thinking,
fun loving, caring maniacal’s,

Voice your dissent,
Affect your intent,
Be free to be bent,
Love yourself,
And everybody else.

Freedom is a chalice,
Make sure you know the price,
Don’t use it with malice,
Be nice,
Worship at the font of self,
Don’t be afraid,
Don’t repent.

22:36 / 12.04.02

Isn't it less about being correct than letting the users control their environment?

Not to be pedantic, but isn't that exactly what the Ignore function we currently have in place does anyway?

redtara, You might want to check your facts in future. Bio is not Chrome.

11:23 / 13.04.02

Not to be pedantic, but isn't that exactly what the Ignore function we currently have in place does anyway?

Kind of. I was just extrapolating a method of barring people from the board out of the idea, if a method for barring people from the board was desired. I'm not myself in favour of said idea, I was just thinking out loud and saw a way of democratising a decision to bar people from the board. But yes, the ignore function probably is fine and dandy as it is and doesn't need any tinkering.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

12:02 / 13.04.02

I kinda liked Mordant's thing- especially the

(Tip: a little courtesy will go a long way here.)

part. Argument good. Fighting bad.

Of course, it's also pretty hard to enforce... Yes, I've misinterpreted things people say, and vice versa. This happens. This happens in the "real" world, too. Courtesy (by which I don't mean "pleases" and "thank yous" and all the "politeness" shit you get taught as a kid so you can get away with being a dick as long as you're "nice" about it... I mean mutual respect.

And cusm's right too- for every right, there is an equal (though not necessarily opposite) responsibility.

Of course, all this stuff's great in theory... I think the problem is, at what point do we realise we aren't misunderstanding someone, they really are out to cause trouble? I think until we can find a solution to that one, the problem's insurmountable. However, we have a responsibility to TRY to surmount it. Even if it doesn't work perfectly.

I figure this is a problem every community, both on- and off-line, struggles with. And it's the struggling that (partially) gives form to that society.

Judging each case by its own merits may be (well, okay, IS) horribly arbitrary... but it seems to be the only reasonable option right now.

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