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(Non) Fatal Flaws

 
  

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Cat Chant
09:18 / 26.03.03
Argh! Weird feeling.

I got an email today about my latest HP story which included this para:

I was browsing some livejournal entries and I found a rec (by luthien) to your fic.. I don't agree with luthien's view, that yours is one of the "flawed" stories. Or maybe I haven't understood what she was trying to say.

I'm not really involved in the HP fan community (though I know of luthien) so I hadn't seen this livejournal entry. Obviously I ran straight there wibbling "Flawed? Why am I flawed? What have I done? Why does Luthien hate me? What are people saying about me?", only to find a page saying "This journal has been deleted and purged". Why? Why has it been deleted and purged?

... anyway. Am obviously really pleased to be being talked about and recommended, but I want to know what my flaws are. I mean, I know what I think the flaws are, but what does everyone else know about my fic that I don't?

Am paranoid in manner of teen. Will be quiet now. But all you older, wiser, more-reviewed writers: does this paranoid-teen feeling ever go away? Or am I going to spend the rest of my career thinking that all the cool kids are laughing at me every time I post/publish anything?
 
 
Sax
09:24 / 26.03.03
Feck the cool kids. I suppose there's always going to be wobbles about publishing and the writer's best kept secret is a suppressed need to be liked, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. "Luthien" was either being piggish or possibly just trying to put some constructive criticism in his review. I don't have much idea why his journal was purged but it could be for any number of reasons, I suppose - possibly all round piggishness, in which case, you needn't worry he's singling you out.

As to whether the feeling ever goes away... I've been in journalism for 14 years now and used to be crushed if I got bad feedback. Now I get letters like I did last week, in which someone had rather creepily scanned a picture of me from the newspaper into his computer and printed it out with a speech bubble saying: "I do talk a lot of rubbish but at least it's better than digging ditches", which I find quite endearing. Any feedback is good feedback, in my book.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:44 / 26.03.03
Of course, given the masonic secret language of different ficdoms, "flawed" could also be referring to the essence rather than the accomplishment of a story - that is, it might be an Potterfic-specific term to describe a story in which one of the characters is (morally) flawed, for example.

As fro Luthien's livejournal - search me, but unless it is dead also the rec shoudl eventually turn up on hir site, yes?

Besides, dude's named after an elf. A pointy, pointy little elf. Since the person who emailed you has already owned that they may not have understood the criticism, since it was a rec in the first place, and since the adjective "flawed" these days is applied almost exclusively to genius and masterpiece, unless preceded by "fatal", which your interlocutor would surely have mentioned, I'd assume nothing too bad.
 
 
captain piss
10:43 / 26.03.03
uhh...HP...wossatthen? ahh-I should know this shouldn't I?
 
 
Sax
12:56 / 26.03.03
I was guessing Howard Phillips at first, then brown sauce.

I finally settled on Harry Potter.

Am I right, sir?
 
 
Cat Chant
13:24 / 26.03.03
Yes, it is indeed Harry Potter (I know, I suck) - which actually explains a lot about why this is making me wibble. I'm perfectly used to criticism in B7 fandom, which is much older (in both senses) and has very high standards for fanfic, but it seems I'd got used to being venerated as a god in HP where the fanfic is of wildly variable quality.

Thanks for the bracing anecdote, Sax - do people really do that? People have a lot of time on their hands, don't they? I think I'd be able to deal better if I just knew what these flaws were and could rationalize/ put constructive criticism to good use/ dismiss luthien's opinion as of no account (she might be one of those weird people who consider Sirius-bashing and Dumbledore-bashing "flaws" rather than "the whole point of writing Harry/Snape in the first place"), it's just that free-floating "you're bad" feeling that's getting to me.

And haus - thanks (though many of my close friends and most-respected writers are named after elves, so that bit doesn't help; but the rest does).

Grrr, though. Now that you've given me the idea, Sax, I'm going to have to write condiment slash. (Can one slash brown sauce with ketchup, or is that just plain wrong?)
 
 
Whisky Priestess
13:36 / 26.03.03
Try mayonnaise and mustard. Now that's kinky.
 
 
Bear
13:42 / 26.03.03
Are you talking about Harry Potter slash, isn't Harry Potter like 12 years old?

This whole slash thing confuses me I guess it's because I can't read any because most of the sites seem to be banned here at work.
 
 
Sax
13:54 / 26.03.03
Condiment slash - what a fantastic idea!

She was mayonnaise light, thin and full of goodness and oh so terribly white.

He was brown sauce from the wrong side of the tracks.

Her love for him was impossible... but how could she resist the tangy-taste of his forbidden fruit-based accompaniment? They met by the chips...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:11 / 26.03.03
(Can one slash brown sauce with ketchup, or is that just plain wrong?)

Wrong as a thong. Slash brown sauce with anchovy paste - it's *spicy*.

Bear - As of GoF, Harry P was in his fourth year at Hogwarts, which would make him 15 or so, or about the age that Pacey was when he lost his virginity to his teacher in "Dawson's Creek", I think...
 
 
Bear
14:25 / 26.03.03
Well the Dawsons Creek reference is a bit of a strange one but I see what your saying, I was just curious wasn't sure if Harry himself was involved in the slash or just the teachers or maybe the owl, there's an owl right?
 
 
Sax
14:28 / 26.03.03
The owl gets a right good seeing to. By Robbie Coltrane.
 
 
Saveloy
14:35 / 26.03.03
Brown and mayo, brown and anchovy, brown and tomato - what's with the hetero bias? I say: HP brown sauce AND Safeways own brand brown sauce. Old has-been meets cheeky upstart wannabe.
 
 
Sax
14:57 / 26.03.03
Sauce! - an everyday tale of love in a high-security condiment prison

Episode one: Who's the Daddies?
 
 
Cat Chant
16:14 / 26.03.03
Now, now, Saveloy: not all differences map onto heterosexuality, you know. Who's to say that the brown and mayo are not a mixed-race or cross-generational same-sex couple? Or perhaps just different star signs or Meyer-Briggs personality types?

Though I must admit I find your HP/Safeways brown-on-brown own brand pairing strangely erotic.

(Incidentally, Bear, sometimes Harry is involved in the slash, sometimes he isn't. In fact, everyone you can think of in Harry Potter has been paired with everyone else you can think of. And some you couldn't. I know Snape has been paired with a Nazgul and I saw some Dumbledore/Dobby art the other day [and oh, God, how I wish I hadn't])

Did Pacey really lose his virginity to his teacher? Which one is Pacey? Why have I never watched Dawson's Creek?
 
 
Cat Chant
16:28 / 26.03.03
Ooh! Squeak! Just got an email from luthien saying that she never said the fic was flawed (and that she makes it a point *not* to criticize people nastily), so I thought that in between the bouncing and squeaking I should set the record straight: she may be named after a pointy, pointy elf but she has no pig-like qualities and should no longer be associated with negative comments on people's fanfic.

Go me!

(And the flaws in the story that other people pointed out on the LJ comments page were ones I knew about, so I am happy again.)
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
20:51 / 26.03.03
A propos of not very much (but I simply had to post it somewhere - used to have a blog for this sort of thing), I found this through a trail of links from Haus's blog so suspect it may be by a friend of his, but it's too great not to post anyway:

nigel molesworth goes to hoggwarts.

Molesworth vs Snape:

"any more of yore cheek molesworth one and you will be cleaning out the manticor's pen for the rest of term. i supose you do not even kno how to produce lite from yore wand by saing lumos."

"But surely sir lumos hav a greek nom. ending whereas the root come from lat. lumen luminis a lite as any fule kno?"

"That will do molesworth. one trillion house points from huflepuf and see me afterwards."

Wot do we learn from this sordid eppisode? That i am as thick in magickal studies as i am at geom. algy. hist. ect. and that BEAKS are BEAKS wotever the subjekt. you cannot escape them o thou weedy worm so there is no use trying.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
22:55 / 26.03.03
Kit-Kat - with my mod. hat i'm tempted to excise that on aesthetic grounds.

Glad it's worked out, Deva, before i got to the end of the thread was about to say, along the lines of Haus' post, that there are many reasons for criticising (as opposed to critiquing) someone's work (in general/across artforms - criticism is an odd beast - but) specifically in my v.limited acquaintance with fan/slash-fiction, a good number of them probably have very little to do with the competence of the writing.

It's rather like Cult.Studs - there's so much personal baggage that people bring to the encounter.

But

On More Important Subjects 1:

HP/Safeways/Walmart B.S slash. Phwoarrr.


On More Important Subjects 2:
bah to HP/Snape honey. Snape/Black, that's where it's at. Coming soon: the Barbe-HPSlashFightClub....
 
 
Cat Chant
06:12 / 27.03.03
BiP, Snape/Black is just wrong as any fule kno (Kit-Kat, that is brilliant - as good as the Molesworth Blake's 7 story which alas I cannot post a link to since it exists only on paper in manner of old-skool fandom.) Actually, can you post links to any decent Snape/Black? I just can't imagine it. (Mind you, I couldn't imagine Harry/Snape for a long time, until an artist called X suddenly convinced me.)
 
 
that
07:29 / 27.03.03
Hang on, Pacey lost his virginity to a teacher? That's what I get for not watching the early series, I suppose. Anyway, I'm glad it worked out, Deva.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:11 / 27.03.03
Digressing hugely, but this seems the best place to ask—a question for all the Sirius Black fans: any suggestions as to what sort of voice I should use for Black?

As I read the books aloud to my daughter, I like to use different voices: for the minor characters and walk-ons, I can get away with a generic Monty Python twit sound, but for each of the main characters should have hir own unique tones. Thus far, I've mostly been able to get away with mimicking the actors from the films (though the finer subtleties of Alan Rickman's adenoidal snarl still elude me).

But now we're reading Prisoner (which is, as many have pointed out, notably better-written than Chamber), and two new characters have appeared on the scene. I'm doing Lupin in a raspy Welsh whisper—he sounds a bit like John Cale, actually—and that suits him. But Sirius Black, who will apparently be a major character indeed, has still not made his voice known to me.

I want him to be distinctive, perhaps by accent: I've considered a slight sort of Joschka Fischer German—"Har-r-r-ry, I ham your gottfazzer!"—but I'm not sure. Zouth Ifrikan doesn't seem quite right either (Zayreeizz Bleck, the Preeznah of Izkiben).

Gary Oldman, of course, will be playing Black in the upcoming film—but I can't quite get a handle on his voice.

We're about halfway in, and Black will be making his first appearance in about a hundred pages—so I need your suggestions, and I need 'em quick: whom should Sirius Black sound like?
 
 
Persephone
12:40 / 27.03.03
Gary Oldman is playing Sirius Black??
 
 
Jack Fear
13:00 / 27.03.03
So saith the IMDb. Also: David Thewlis is Lupin and Timothy Spall, Pettigrew—which should be great.

Ooh, and Pam Ferris (who played Miss Trunchbull in Matilda, one of my daughter's favorite movies) as Aunt Marge! Sweet!
 
 
Persephone
13:12 / 27.03.03
Timothy Spall as Pettigrew is perfect. But Gary Oldman... he ought to play *somebody* in Harry Potter certainly, but I don't think Sirius Black!

Now Gary Oldman is posting to his BB, "someone doesn't like me as Sirius Black but I don't know why. This is giving me an odd feeling in my middle..."
 
 
Ethan Hawke
13:20 / 27.03.03
HP becomes even more slashtastic - Y Tu Mama Tambien director Alfonso Cuaron is directing the next movie.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:11 / 27.03.03
Oh. My. God. Magnifique.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:22 / 27.03.03
Wow. I might have to go see that. Wow.

Jack, basically you want a exhausted,menacing, running on adrenalin borderline-loon voice for the beginning. Dennis Hopper maybe? Christian Bale?

And then as we discover more about him that needs to subside into something world-weary with flashes of humour - nothing's springing to mind right now, but I'lll have a think...

And Deva:

(will have a dig for some links. Lots of it is fo course terrible. Think what I like about S/B is the possibility for the eroticising of equality, the 'difficult balance' thing that makes DLS so great. And the interesting switchy possibilites of the good/bad guy - who has the bad rep and plays with/suffersr with it in spite of protectig little Harry and the bad/good guy - who seems to be characterised as good even though he's been involved in potentially murdering two people. (Given JKR's patchy characterisation, there's bags of room for it) Which isn't to say I've found much that does this, but I live in hope.... )
 
 
Ethan Hawke
15:28 / 27.03.03
I know nothing about Harry Potter, except, you know, the bare basics, but who on earth was the studio exec who saw Y tu Mama and was like "Now that's the guy I want to direct the next Harry Potter!"?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:32 / 27.03.03
My lovely, it was someone like one of us.
 
 
Cat Chant
16:31 / 27.03.03
Ooh, BiP, the possibilities around goodguy/badguy reversals sound fascinating... as for

the possibility for the eroticising of equality - you can't imagine how much fun it is trying to eroticize equality between Harry and Snape. Way more of a challenge.

Christian Bale sounds good for Sirius, but since he is in reality a bluff Gryffindor Colonel-Blimp type, I'd go for Stephen Fry as General Melchett.

"I am your godfather. Meeeehhhhh!"
 
 
_pin
20:03 / 27.03.03
Deva:

You never watched Dawson's Creek because it is, on every horrible, inhuman level, exactly what I'd have been like Back In The Day if I could speak elloquently, had no spots, got laid, been very attractive, was very clever and tallented, and lived in a beautiful part of the country.

Christ, why the fuck were they so miserable?? And why couldn't Joey ever talk normally, using the full length of her mouth??
 
 
Sax
06:17 / 28.03.03
And why are they all still in school at the age of 30?
 
 
Shrug
06:39 / 28.03.03
Damn it you may think I'm a pleb, but I love the Creek!
Its just a bunch of people waxing lyrical about life, the plots go out the window( for me ) at least and I just enjoy the extra verbiage and analysis.
I suppose the same applies to your story Deva there is no accounting for taste (hackneyed but true) your story's worth shouldn't have its basis on just one person's opinion or a group of people's opinions, just your own! And remember you can't please all of the people all of the time, just some of the people some of the time, a stitch in time saves nine, a watched pot never boils, home is where the heart is!
 
 
Bear
06:49 / 28.03.03
Dawsons Creek is nearly over isn't it - what's happening in it? I've only seen a couple of episodes because I thought it was well shite but I saw the a little teaser trailer while before an Angel trailer and there was scary dramatic music and talk of a disaster?
 
 
Sax
09:32 / 28.03.03
Dawson's chin goes on the rampage and kills everyone. Then gets its own spin-off series.
 
  

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