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Wiggers: Socially acceptable racism? Identity rebellion? Sheer stupidity?

 
  

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Margin Walker
16:49 / 01.03.02


BTW, in case anyone is actually offended, I tried to come up with another term other than "Wigger", but I couldn't think of any. So anyways, whadda ya think? Is this just your garden variety teen rebellion or is this somehow sticking it to the man? Moreover, is this just thinly veiled racism (e.g.: "I don't hate black people--just the white people who act like they are")?
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
16:57 / 01.03.02
Socially acceptable racism, hard to say. Is hating a bunch of fucking chumps racism?

Identity rebellion, so that's what they're calling it these days. I laugh at these people the same way I would laugh at Trevor McDonald if he tried to pass himself of as a carny.

Sheer stupidity. Yep a bunch of try-hard wanna-be gangstaz who are completely funded by parents who's complete inability to exercise any discipline of their children in the name of good parenting is a clear catalyst in the retardation of todays society. I'll happily call that stupidity.


Edited to add that my response really shouldn't be taken as completely serious as this is something of a sore issue for me.

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: H ]
 
 
Ganesh
17:02 / 01.03.02
Ali G Syndrome, too ludicrous to hate. What's the US equivalent of 'Staines posse'?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:05 / 01.03.02
(Not adding anything of any great depth here, but that's got to the shiniest jewelry ever. Nice Photoshop work, boys.)
 
 
Hieronymus
17:17 / 01.03.02
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!

Okay. Not that that's out of my system, I can honestly say that this is a genuine culture and a viable demographic. Especially in the South where middle class and below white kids have genuinely identified with the social ills and status quo rebellion that resides in hip hop. Kid Rock, Bubba Sparx, etc are evidence of this, a sort of metal/hip hop convergence. There were white artists that picked up from jazz's black roots early on and this is just another example of how cultural memes, even something that should be a diametrically opposed as white trash (and yes even racist) Southern youth have incorporated one culture into theirs in attempt to find their identity. Nothing new about it.

But the guy on the left just has me in stitches. So that's what Corey Feldman's been up to.

Word.
 
 
Ganesh
17:23 / 01.03.02
<idly wonders if a decent rapper could rhyme 'bling-bling' with 'acne scarring'>
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
17:30 / 01.03.02
I'm an ugly muthafucka with cloth on my head
Even my dog want to see me dead
Hittin' up the parents for capital bling bling
Still don't cure me of acne scarring.
 
 
Hieronymus
17:34 / 01.03.02
More on our thugz here
 
 
Ganesh
17:36 / 01.03.02
H, you really were wasted in Steps, weren't you?
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
17:37 / 01.03.02
Oh yes.
 
 
grant
17:54 / 01.03.02
quote:It seems funny to me that all the people that be hatin my little brother and his crew are some of the most ignorant homophobic and racist people I have ever had the pleasure of corresponding with. To start with, Rab spelled numerous words wrong including using threw instead of through and put an M in the word capacity. Secondly and probably more importantly, you call the Stuntaz Faggots. Homophobia is probably one of the most closed minded and moronic things in the world. Next time you try to make a point, you should try doing it with out offending an entire sexuality. Thanks for your email Rab, but you really need to seek help.

from one of the Stuntaz.

Hmmm.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
17:55 / 01.03.02
Hey, this is the head shop. You have to frame your question something like "Wiggers: White male recuperation of the Hip-Hop Style or polymorphously perverse cultural blending?" Or maybe "Wigger in action: race as a performative." Or perhaps "Eminem: transracialism and the hip hop nation." "Going platinum: The cultural semiotics of bling-bling."
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:54 / 01.03.02
"We ain't gay or some shit, youze the fags", followed by the bit grant's just quoted.

Truly horrendous use of bright green text on luminous pink background.

Piss-take. It's either a glorious piss-take or... I'm... going... to kill... myself.
 
 
passer
19:35 / 01.03.02
To continue in a very non head shop like manner:

I'm almost positive that I served these young fools coffee in my shameful between jobs starbucks stint. Politics of Starbucks aside, is it obvious why I didn't last long there?

E. Randy Dupre- this is were selective delusion is handy. Pretend you didn't just read this. All better, yes?

On to head shop content: I find wigger a very offense term and not as harmless as people like to believe. There are all sorts of unpleasant underlying assumptions to the word. That being said I think a great deal of my problem with the term stems from the fact that it is so damned accurate. The assumptions behind insulting someone for being a wigger are the same foolish ideas that prompt people to do this.

Now on to arguing other posters:

quote:Originally posted by Dekapot Mass:
I can honestly say that this is a genuine culture and a viable demographic. Especially in the South where middle class and below white kids have genuinely identified with the social ills and status quo rebellion that resides in hip hop. Kid Rock, Bubba Sparx, etc are evidence of this, a sort of metal/hip hop convergence. There were white artists that picked up from jazz's black roots early on and this is just another example of how cultural memes, even something that should be a diametrically opposed as white trash (and yes even racist) Southern youth have incorporated one culture into theirs in attempt to find their identity. Nothing new about it.


Genuine identification? In some cases perhaps, but in the particular one, I think not. Disingenuous or co-opting are better terms for it. Picked up or to use a stronger word, stolen. My problem with this and with the earlier examples it that all that was taken were the style. Any cultural content or message is usually tossed away as soon as possible. So you have "black" style mimicked while "black" culture continues to belittled.
 
 
grant
20:07 / 01.03.02
It's a pisstake. Just chop the end bit off the URL and see where you end up.

However, it's a pisstake that's closer to reality than you'd think - witness the fact that it generates hate mail, etc.

I don't think the phenomenon is stupid as much as ignorant - reaching out to some concept of "otherness" to defy social norms.
 
 
mr insensitive
20:33 / 01.03.02
Maybe you should call this thread 'ageism in action?'. If that's a word or still a mere concept. So a bunch of narrow-minded retards want to express themselves through their clothes. Big fucking one.
 
 
The Monkey
09:12 / 02.03.02
"Wigger" consumption of gangster imagery and materiale does not necessarily correspond to some profound sense of ideological dialogue...although I would no rule out this possibility, merely relegate it to a case-by-case basis. To purchase something, or otherwise consume it, is to affiliation one's self-identity with the semantic properties of the object/idea consumed. This is a meta-application of the truism "you are what you eat." Consumption is equal parts wish-fulfillment and social performance.

The below is a very general theory, thrown together only with head references...I'm not walking 2miles back to the library for you guys, it's too damn cold.

Gang members represent a narrow set of inner city residents; predominantly male, predominantly under the age of 30.

But is from this cultural material that the public's image of urban black culture has been formulated, largely as a result of the press coverage of the "Bloods/Crips War" in the 1980s and early 1990s. Why? Because the gang lifestyle is dramatic...it possesses all of the requisite plot points for nighttime telly...violence, sex, music, drugs, death, and violence. It is from this constructed image that we find the first "gangsta rap" artists attaining prominence...in spite of their circulation within the music scene for years, their success beyond their urban localities is directly tied to media hyperbolization, presented to a predominantly white adolecsent male consuming public.

Why? The construction of masculinity inculcated in modern American society, and the strains of racial caricature and stereotype afloat in the US subconscious. The modern adolescent male ideal is an interweave of attractiveness, danger, rebellion, and materialism. The media-generated, record-producer version of the gangster rapper bundles all of these qualities:

1. There is a remaining racist theme in society that associates dark-skinned people, especially young black [African] males, with excessive virility, and a particularly implacable libido. This quality is presented simultaneously as a fetishisation, in both the Marxist and psychoerotic senses, and a social threat. While modern racist organizations still characterize this typing as a potential pathology to "Caucasian society," in the form of rape and miscegenation, the meme has been inverted and liminalized in mainstream thought - yet is still present, in the form of jokes, speculation about penis size, "interracial pornography," etc.
2. "Blackness" and poverty generate a subaltern standing relative to the hegemonic [European] culture of the United States, on top of which can be laid the "sub-subaltern" rebellion of gang membership, simultaneously a defiance of hegemonic, parental, societal standards and mores.
3. In the US, thanks to media representation, Gang membership is inherently tied with extreme violence and more general forms of criminality. The individual gang member is thus viewed as a potential threat, and an uncertain one.
4. In perception, criminality is interlinked with rapid material success, particularly the drug trade. Furthermore, this accumulation of capital is displayed by the consumption of extragavances, thus creating displays...which correspond to social credibility.

Let us now contemplate the picture of the "Stuntaz" again. How is it, and the accompanying website, a sublimation of these young men's fantasies?

And do they realize that "Icy Hot" is that crap you rub on sprains? I can't stop laughing about that.
 
 
The Monkey
09:15 / 02.03.02
grant, you're right. It is a parody.

It manages to cover a lot of semantic ground in a very limited space...quite impressive, from a satirical/grotesquerie perspective.

Maybe that explains the "Icy Hot" bit, too.
 
 
Thjatsi
09:15 / 02.03.02
quote:Why? The construction of masculinity inculcated in modern American society, and the strains of racial caricature and stereotype afloat in the US subconscious. The modern adolescent male ideal is an interweave of attractiveness, danger, rebellion, and materialism. The media-generated, record-producer version of the gangster rapper bundles all of these qualities...

I would argue that the adolescent male issue is biologically based, as opposed to being sociologically based. However, Howard Bloom argues this point better than I can:

quote:The defiant attitude of teenage punk rockers and heavy metal head bangers may seem like a rage spawned by the unique disorders of Western culture, but it is not. Adolescence awakens defiant urges in nearly all primates. In chimpanzees, it inspires a wanderlust that forces some young females to leave the cozy family they've always known and go off to make a new life for themselves among strangers. In langur monkeys, it triggers a restlessness that's much more to the point. Adolescent langur males kick loose the bonds of their childhood family life and cluster in unruly, threatening gangs. Then they go on the prowl, looking for some older, well-established male they can attack.

The adolescents' goal is to dislodge the respectable elder from his cushy home and take over everything he owns - his power, his prestige, and his wives. As we'll see later, humans are driven by many of the same instincts as our primate relatives. Consequently, many adolescents of our species also resent the authority of the adults over their heads. Their hormones have suddenly told them that it is time to assert their individuality and to challenge the prerogatives of the older generation.


The thing that's interesting about the whole rap subculture is that there's a lot of money being made in supporting adolescent posturing. However, I'm not sure if this provides a safe outlet, or if it creates further problems. What I do know though, is that these people create some of the worst music in the history of mankind.
 
 
ceridwen
09:15 / 02.03.02
i gotta say- anyone who strikes a pose like this is fair game.

but we can agree that it is the product of ignorance right? or are we playing educated-and-culturally-hip? do you imagine that these boys have any awareness that they should know better? i just feel bad for making fun of kids who are the unwitting product of (socity?). situation specific parody or not.
 
 
Bill Posters
11:56 / 02.03.02
Hmmm, I'd second Dekapot Mass': "Nothing new about it". Jim Morrison used to shout at his folks that he'd "marry a nigger girl", and (in)famously co-opted the 'Indian' image too, Ginsberg saw the best minds of his generation racing through the negro streets etc etc, and in 1957 (I think) Norman Mailer wrote an essay entitled The White Negro. But as for the politics, it's a very complex pattern indeed. Some kinda multilectic whereby it's valid and invalid from various different perspectives (black, Jewish, 'white trash', white middle class etc etc) all at once as the mixed feelings above show.

Init?
 
 
Mystery Gypt
19:50 / 03.03.02
i havent spent much time in the south. but i've talked to a lot of white folks from the south who have explained to me the often people labelled "white trash" are proud of being poor because it means they are not descended from motherfuckers who owned slaves.

american is complicated.

and those are three of the most frightened looking kids i've seen in a long time.
 
 
Margin Walker
23:54 / 03.03.02
quote:Originally posted by Bill Posters:
Hmmm, I'd second Dekapot Mass': "Nothing new about it". Jim Morrison used to shout at his folks that he'd "marry a nigger girl", and (in)famously co-opted the 'Indian' image too, Ginsberg saw the best minds of his generation racing through the negro streets etc etc, and in 1957 (I think) Norman Mailer wrote an essay entitled The White Negro.


Or Lester Bangs proclaiming himself "The last of the white niggers". You'd have to be completely inept to think that this is the first time a black thang's been co-opted by white teen-agers. Not to mention profiting off of the fad ("Grunge" hair additive, fake bullethole scabs, etc.)

The truth is, I couldn't quite place why "Tha Stuntaz" looked so damn ludicrous. I tried to imagine these kids dressed up in some other way. What if they were wearing rasta dreads & "Chant Down Babylon!!" t-shirts? Or if they were dressed up as Sihks, complete with turbans & scimitars? I woundn't think either of those would be funny at all. In fact, I'd probably be pissed that they've been discriminated against. But this.....

BTW, is the term "Wigger" exclusive to the US? In my experience, it's not very prevalent here, but then I don't spend a lot of time with the young'uns anymore....
 
 
Hieronymus
00:36 / 04.03.02
quote:Originally posted by Margin Walker:

BTW, is the term "Wigger" exclusive to the US? In my experience, it's not very prevalent here, but then I don't spend a lot of time with the young'uns anymore....


As far as I know it is, Margin. And predominantly born from the South. Never been much for the word myself as it was usually used by my white trash cousins to ridicule 'white wannabe niggers'. <shudders>
 
 
Cat Chant
14:06 / 04.03.02
This isn't particularly about an identifiable sub-culture/population of 'wiggers', but more about problems of cross-racial identification for white people who are attempting to have some sort of solidarity with people of less privileged races... and I'm going to make the risky & possibly completely stupid move of thinking about this in terms of the straight-acting thread, and Judith Butler pointing out that "the feminine is not the property of women".

There's kind of a double bind here, in that there is a responsibility on white people *not* to inherit and reproduce 'whiteness' simply and identically to the ways it has been played out before. One way of loosening the biologizing connection between 'race' & its stereotypes might be precisely thru this kind of racial drag (cf Judith Butler again). There is a ghettoizing and racist danger in assuming that people have to dress, behave and identify appropriately to their 'race' - just as it is dangerous to police gender or sexual boundaries in this way.

On the other hand, there is also an asymmetry going on. One of the less palatable aspects of whiteness (which this type of drag might be trying to shake off) *is*, historically, the assumption that black identities, styles, and the products of black people's labour, are there to be enjoyed by white people - ie that white people have an automatic right of access to black culture (this does not hold the other way round).

So what do you do? I'm thinking about this all the time at the moment, partly because both myself (white) and a friend (not white) are technically mixed-race and we are having this ongoing discussion, whenever we're drunk, about the differences in our relation to that term and about when it is helpful for white people to identify as mixed-race (when it will destabilize someone's ideas about the notion that there are fixed populations of people with a fixed and definable "race") and when such a 'cross-racial identification' is unhelpful (usually when it involves a white person attempting to pretend to be oppressed because of their race.)
 
 
Rage
18:49 / 04.03.02
Look at those cute little conformists!

It's a phase. Once they get out of high school they'll get jobs at Disney World or The Benson Jolitta Corporation and be fine.

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: Egar Reversed ]
 
 
The Monkey
18:53 / 04.03.02
External to the intellectual discussion, I'm really sure that this web-site, etc, is a piss-take.
 
 
passer
19:46 / 04.03.02
quote:Originally posted by [monkeys of thoth]:
External to the intellectual discussion, I'm really sure that this web-site, etc, is a piss-take.


I'd love to agree, but I wasn't joking about having served them coffee. I thought it was my imagination, but the website has confirmed they are indeed natives of my little slice of racist utopia. Cobb county: home of the U.S.'s first anti-gay resolution and several retired kkk grand wizards.

And the content on the hosting page leads me to believe this is less parody and more I think this is cool.

Edited to add the following ramble:

quote:Originally posted by Deva:
This isn't particularly about an identifiable sub-culture/population of 'wiggers', but more about problems of cross-racial identification for white people who are attempting to have some sort of solidarity with people of less privileged races... and I'm going to make the risky & possibly completely stupid move of thinking about this in terms of the straight-acting thread, and Judith Butler pointing out that "the feminine is not the property of women".


There are very valid points to be made about increasing solidarity, but I have my doubts that that's what's going on here. This is not about identifying on any significant level with black culture or even black people. This is taking the exaggerated media creation that is the gansta/rapper and using it to piss off your parents. The portrayal itself is offensive and alienating to the very minority they're supposed to be identifying with.

I like the idea of creating solidarity, but just as drag isn't feminism this isn't about eliminating racism. It reinforces every negative stereotype out there and that's why it's so transparent as playing. I'd argue that that's the difference between these boys and say bubba sparx and eminem. Yes both artists fit aspects of the stereotype, but both artist at least express an understanding of why the markers are significant: what it means to have the big car and women and the fact that it's a backlash against oppression. I'm not willing to say whether that's because they've lived it or because they've thought about it, but it's there.

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: passer ]
 
 
Cat Chant
06:24 / 05.03.02
Hey, Passer, your nick is really interesting in this context. Where's it from?
 
 
passer
11:31 / 05.03.02
Unrelated to the current context entirely. It's Latin for sparrow, stolen from Catullus.
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
11:36 / 05.03.02
Can we now have a big fight about whether the damn bird was in fact a sparrow? It is traditional...
 
 
Cat Chant
15:36 / 05.03.02
quote:Originally posted by passer:
Unrelated to the current context entirely. It's Latin for sparrow, stolen from Catullus.


What a very morbid nick! Doesn't the sparrow die in like the second poem? (Nice, though.)

Um, sorry, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Possibly the sparrow was only passing as a sparrow, and was really an African swallow?
 
 
The Monkey
15:53 / 05.03.02
//rotting thread//
Whether or not is had a coconut should answer that question....

Ahhh. Catullus. "Fuck you in the ass and mouth." Best explitive statement ever.

//Back to the topic//

I tend to agree with Lesbia's lamented sparrow about the entire cooption process...it's not necessarily, at root, a function of identification with the "real," but rather an assumption of the fictitious gangster image - media manufactured -in an attempt to affinate the self with traits from the [fictional] "other."

I dunno if you saw my initial post on the thread, passer, but I came to pretty much the same conclusions, but was operating from more of a textual basis in Baudrillard, Bourdieu, and Dietler, thus using consumption-basis descriptive paradigm. The Butler quote is equally valid.
 
 
Cat Chant
12:39 / 06.03.02
And I think you may well be right, monkeys: I'm just trying to skew the thread in a more positive direction, thinking about ways in which cross-racial identification *could* be progressive, rather than everyone getting together to point and laugh at the working-class people and their crude racial politics, which leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

I suppose I'm also thinking about the analogy with "queterosexual" (a word formed in a similar mode to "wigger") and the discussions around whether & how to queer heterosexuality last year or whenever the hell it was. Are there useful ways in which to 'black' whiteness? I agree, I think, that some forms of 'wiggerness' (I don't have a vocabulary for this, sorry) fail because they see race as an *analogy* for other forms of oppression and alienation from mainstream society, and hence appropriate its forms of expression without any sensitivity to its specific racial content... but are there other forms of identification/ racial styling that could work more progressively?

[ 06-03-2002: Message edited by: Deva ]
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:53 / 06.03.02
Agree about the nasty taste - regardless of whether the original site is a pisstake or not, some of the comments in this thread have left me uncomfortable, without exactly being able to express why.

I think it's something to do with the way that hip-hop culture can be safely ridiculed when the kids doing it are white, but that the main thrust of the ridicule seems to be indentical to when it is applied to hip-hop specifically with strong racial overtones. Er, I'm not explaining myself very well, and am likely to cause a big fight. I'm sure Deva has a better grasp of this than I do...
 
  

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