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Underground > Radio & Music >

The white rock fan's hip hop cd collection

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No star here laces

12:09 / 20.03.03

Let's just get it over with. Come on, bring it. Let's list all those predictable hip hop cds that people who don't really like it always have and then we can never mention them again, aii? Cos I'm in a bolshy mood today with the war and all...

No star here laces

12:17 / 20.03.03

1.) Public Enemy - "It takes a nation of millions..."

Because the NME says it's like the best rap album ever. And it's political.

2.) Dr Octagon - "Dr Octagynocologist"

Because misogyny is acceptable if it happens over glitchy beats.

3.) Something by KRS1

Because he disses mainstream rap.

4.) DJ Shadow - "Endtroducing"

Which is actually, I admit, a really good record. But a lot of crap gets talked about it.

5.) Cannibal Ox - "The cold vein"

Which is like, great, a year on, isn't it? Eh? Eh?

No star here laces

12:19 / 20.03.03

Actually, scratch the Can Ox record. The fifth most obvious has to be "Black on both sides" by Mos Def.

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:27 / 20.03.03

Nah, crap, you had it right first time. The kind of record collections you're trying to parody almost *never* include anyone as simultaneously contemporary and accepted within 'mainstream' hip-hop circles as Mos. I think the first Jurassic 5 album is what you want there. Or maybe Ill Communication.

12:28 / 20.03.03

Speaking as the archetypal "white rock fan who likes hip-hop", I only have one of those. Hurrah.

12:39 / 20.03.03

You have to do a separate list for the weed-smoking trustafarian white rock fan, eg. Cypress Hill, "Tical," Paul's Boutique, etc.

12:39 / 20.03.03

Oh yeah, and "The Chronic" of course.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:06 / 20.03.03

Incidentally, I think "misogyny is acceptable if it happens over glitchy beats" is the best one-line demolition of the whole alt/underground/beardy rap thing *ever*.

13:19 / 20.03.03

(1) Cypress Hill - Black Sunday
"Dude, they're "Insane in the Brain"! Do you know why? They smoke weed! And they're political, too. They support Pot legalization. And killing cops."

(2) Method Man - Tical
"Dude, do you know what Tical is? It's like weed, mixed with embalming fluid and jet fuel and shit. I've got to get me some of that."

(3) Dr. Dre - The Chronic
"West Coast, man! West Coast! 'Indo' is like weed, right? And he's got a big pot leaf on his baseball cap, like mine."

(4) Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique
"These guys are nuts, man! Nuts! Did you see the "Hey Ladies" video where dude's all in pimp gear and stuff? That's righteous."

(5) DJ Shadow - Entroducing
"Dude, if you got a chick over, throw this on, get baked, and you'll get laid for sure. Be careful not to fall asleep, though."

16:37 / 20.03.03

Not to forget the Wu-Tang Clan.

Matthew Fluxington

17:06 / 20.03.03

I'd only include the Wu-Tang Clan if the person you're talking about only has Enter The 36 Chambers *or* Wu-Tang Forever. And they never listen to Wu-Tang Forever.

17:28 / 20.03.03

Oh God yes. The Wu-Tang (while being admitedly brilliant) are by far the most enthusiastically bandied by rock fans (well, Cypress Hill and P.E. give them a run for their money).

18:53 / 20.03.03

um...and eminem? or is that just the ones i know?

20:24 / 20.03.03

*hangs head in shame*
Curse my mispent youth!

22:29 / 20.03.03

What, no Outkast? All the white rock fans who like hip-hop (myself included) love Outkast.

Matthew Fluxington

22:45 / 20.03.03

You know, I find it kind of depressing that this sort of anti-white-rock fan sentiment has spread over here from where I thought it was being quarantined over at ILM/ILXOR.

Are we going to start using the word 'rockist' now?

Oh, but yr right. White people are awful, aren't they? Especially those of them who like music made with un-sampled guitars. And singing. White guys singing is the worst sound in the world. And white people shouldn't like hip hop that speaks to them. And they shouldn't get their icky germs all over the good, genuine negro hip hop. No no no. Rockist scum should be murdered in the streets.

A

01:24 / 21.03.03

I'm with Flux. This thread is just condescending and patronising, not to mention more than a little bit hypocritical.

"Dude, why don't us cool people make a list of records commonly owned by people who think they're cool, but really arent'? That'll show 'em"

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:20 / 21.03.03

Flux, you joined in this thread and then decided to smack it down - c'mon! Don't play yourself like Clare Short. And I don't actually see any slagging of music made by white people with guitars here. What I *will* concede is that this thread is guilty of that "music liked by people who aren't as savvy as me!" thing, which is usually a bad idea (but Byron does give an excuse, sorta, in his first post).

Moreover, I think to get an idea of why people get pissed off enough to join in with this thread, I think you have to spend a few years reading the UK music press and (even more so) the music coverage in UK broadsheet newspapers. No lie, there is this dominant theme of "this rap album is good and acceptable for white middle-class purchase, not like all that other nasty stuff about guns and drugs" that crops up in Every. Single. Positive. Review. of a hip-hop record, and permeates the culture in a really insidious and harmful way. I don't think it works in quite the same way on the other side of the Atlantic, just because there's a far more vocal and visible kind of hip-hop media... I'm not sure it's possible to understand the UK perspective of this without direct experience of how stifling the common thinking on this subject is here.

(Hope the above is illuminating, rather than patronising!)

No star here laces

09:53 / 21.03.03

6.) Jane Grey - "Attack of the attacking things"

Because she's a girl. With a degree. Which of course means she must be a talented musician. Oh and she disses all those naughty mainstream rappers.

7.) Anti-Pop Convention - who cares what it's called

Because it says 'anti-pop'. Do you see?

Flux - you are right. This thread is juvenile, pissy and holier-than-thou. And you know what? It knows it, and revels in it. I, for one, enjoy the fact that we don't have to have 'constructive' discussions in the music forum. Actually I'm intrigued that anyone feels such a thing is even possible or useful. Talking about music is not music. Talking about music is something we do to amuse ourselves and fling references around in a slightly embarassing competitive manner. If you can't tek it, get out the specialist record store. It's friday and I don't want to take things too seriously just now.

So, much as I love you, all I can say is, I bet you own:

8) Jurassic Five

Whiny San Francisco pissants reminisce over a sepia-tinted hip-hop heyday that exists only in forgettable Spike Lee movies and the imaginations of College radio djs.

Hah! Take that!

No star here laces

10:05 / 21.03.03

And, Flyboy, you're right, the Beasties is a chronic omission. But I'd pick "Paul's Boutique" rather than "Ill Communication." Because, surely, no one on the planet still listens to the latter, do they?

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:06 / 21.03.03

I doubt Flux does own that, actually, or at least if he does, he probably doesn't like it that much (like me). The man himself has good taste, 'Laces, don't get it twisted!

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:15 / 21.03.03

Oh - also:

10) either any Mo' Wax / Ninja Tune compilation - Where do they find those crazy samples? And how did they learn to do that thing where they move their hand back and forth on the record so it makes a kind of atonal noise?

or U.N.K.L.E. - Psience Fiction - It is *too* a hip-hop album! Full of clever, hard-to-find samples like dialogue from Apocalypse Now, plus it really pushed the envelope, stretches boundaries, busts genres and breaks new ground by having Thom Yorke and Richard Ashcroft on it! And Thom Yorke sings about "Christian suburbia" - ah, in your face, Dubya! Subversive! James Lavelle must be some kind of genius.

No star here laces

10:26 / 21.03.03

Yeah, it was a pulled punch. I just can't bring myself to do it.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

11:34 / 21.03.03

Is it alright for me to like J5 and the Wu-Tang Clan if I'm not particularly a rock music fan?

11:50 / 21.03.03

Coming soon to G2:

Hey, whitey! Meet your nemesis!

BYRON! "Ha ha hahaaaah!"

and

FLYBOY! "Man, I just gotta hurt someone..."

They're white, university educated and, er, under 40! Gasp in shock and awe at their MASSIVE powers of observation!

Stuart Jeffries: "It's so funny cos it's so true! Ho ho! Have a gold star from me!"

Teacher: "And me!"

Lovely girls: "And us! We love it when slightly past it university-educated males combine the only two emotions they have - amusement and disgust - to form contempt! So sexy, mmm!"

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:01 / 21.03.03

Well, I think we should give some respect here. Byron has worked very hard to be black, and is as such much blacker, and thus much more deserving of respect, than ordinary black people who were just born black and haven't had to do anything to stay black except avoid vitiligo.

And I can't *believe* you goldfish memory kids have missed out Credit to the Nation. I didn't realise that there was a statute of limitations on indie-friendly quasi-hip hop. Anyone who has not cleaned out their music collection since 1990 will have at least one single, and maybe the entire album. Also, continuing our journey back in time, Apache Indian. An indian rapper with a song about the undesirability of the BNP? It's too perfect for words! Not to mention, obviously, "Words Fail Me!" by MC Buzz B. Guardian-reading fucker! Even the title is a self-deprecating reference to the limitations of rap. Cuuuuunt!

The Return Of Rothkoid

12:09 / 21.03.03

Man. Nobody's mentioned MC Hammer yet? Or Redhead Kingpin? C'mon, y'all! Keep it real!

Matthew Fluxington

12:32 / 21.03.03

I, for one, enjoy the fact that we don't have to have 'constructive' discussions in the music forum. Actually I'm intrigued that anyone feels such a thing is even possible or useful. Talking about music is not music. Talking about music is something we do to amuse ourselves and fling references around in a slightly embarassing competitive manner.

I just can't agree with that point of view, Byron. First, I tend to resent the notion that spectacle forums are really just fluff forums. I think that it's better for us to discuss art with the same level of seriousness and thoughtfulness that is common in the Revolution forums here on Barbelith. Otherwise, what's the point of having them here? We can all go hang out at a hundred other music message boards. Barbelith's spectacle forums should be different. It shouldn't be an area for people to fuck around and shoot off thinly-veiled racist bullshit that they'd never get away with in the Headshop.

Like I said, I find this "anti-rockist" ILM attitude very obnoxious, poorly thought-out, anti-art/anti-music, and I think that it is very sad that it's come to this over here.

I would suggest that if you really want to keep moving in this direction, you should just take it over to ILM where they've got dozens of threads relating to the sort of attitude that Flyboy and Byron are pushing in this thread.

12:59 / 21.03.03

One of the points raised in the "History, Identities and Standards" thread over in The Magick was that perhaps comparsion to The Headshop wasn't always the way to go. I don't think it stands as any kind of template for an ideal Barb-Forum - it's got it's strengths and it's weakness, and different topics deserve different approaches. When discussing popular music surely there's room for a bit of silliness?

Also, I'd point out that when challenged Fly gave a very good (and entirely accurate) justification for the thread. I think that both this response - and the pisstaking that follow - have been of a pretty high standard, much better than ILM.

Old brown-eye is back

14:08 / 21.03.03

Hey! It's the most self satisfied thread ever.

Old brown-eye is back

14:18 / 21.03.03

Really though, what a complete waste of time.

Old brown-eye is back

14:18 / 21.03.03

Jesus Christ.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:24 / 21.03.03

Thanks for the complex and thorough rebuttal there, Orgone. With posts like that, I'm sure we can avoid this forum being a place where people just post snarky, dismissive one-liners. I especially like the way you split your three-pronged attack (three distinct, articulate criticisms) were split across three separate posts. Some might call this a lazy rhetorical technique, but I think you were merely giving each constructive comment the space it deserved.

Old brown-eye is back

14:46 / 21.03.03

Well, that's anger for you. I think a more pressing concern is how we're going to avoid it being a forum for people repeatedly patting themselves on the back for no other reason than the contents of their record collection.

Old brown-eye is back

14:50 / 21.03.03

No actually, you're quite right. Someone daring to own It Takes a Nation of Millions.... is damning evidence of them not quite liking Hip Hop.

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