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'Straight-Acting': how out are you?

 
 
Ganesh
18:55 / 22.02.02
For those unaware of the term, 'straight-acting' is used (in a highly subjective way) by some within the gay scene to describe gay male behaviour that isn't overtly camp, effeminate... what used to be called 'sissy', 'nelly', whatever. It's most commonly seen in the likes of Gaydar, gay male contact ads.

I was thinking about this today in connection with 'out-ness' because I found myself being oddly reticent about my sexuality in a situation where I really didn't have to be. Having intended to get my hair cut for ages now, I nipped into one of those cheap & cheerful barber shops just off Old Compton Street (well, my hair's so short at the moment, it seems wasteful to spend too much on it) for a 'five quid, five-minute' buzzcut.

Anyway, I'm sitting in the chair, the female barber (she really wasn't a hairdresser) asks the regulation 'going out tonight' question and I told her I was heading for the station later - to meet my 'partner'. Only afterwards did it occur to me that I was sitting in a barber's shop off (possibly) the gayest street in Europe, surrounded by very probably gay men and women having bloody gay haircuts; and I was being coy about my partner's gender.

Why didn't I say 'boyfriend' instead? Automatic neutral 'talking to a stranger' mode, I suppose. Few situations are as obviously 'safe' as that one and I'm cautious about sounding things out before I 'drop a hairpin'. Not that 'partner' isn't a rather broad hint to those even vaguely attuned to such things.

The problem with this particular approach is that, while it avoids some potentially difficult situations (getting into arguments with homo-unfriendly people), it makes me feel awkward and slightly untruthful - and if one ends up spending more time with the 'stranger' (new work colleague, for example), not being explicit can make for tricky situations later on, merely serving to defer the awkwardness.

All of which lends new meaning to 'straight-acting', I guess...

Anyway, it occurred to me today that those gay men who present themselves in over-the-top camp style may be doing so in part because that saves them having to 'disclose' their sexuality verbally: people automatically assume they're gay, and they're saved the hassle of actually having to tell anyone - and they presumably never feel they're being deceptive in any way.

Questions:

1) What would you consider 'straight-acting'?

2) How 'straight-acting' are you?

3) Would you feel 'deceived' if a colleague you'd worked with for a while admitted he'd allowed you to assume he was straight when he wasn't?

4) Should I say 'partner' or 'boyfriend'?

(BTW, this one was a toss-up between Conversation and here...)

[ 22-02-2002: Message edited by: Ganesh v4.2 ]
 
 
alas
20:33 / 22.02.02
2) i'm in a straight relationship but i try not to be too straight acting because i basically hate over the top heterosexuality and don't identify myself with terms like straight or het. they make my skin crawl because they are really not descriptive of who i am, inside. (But, having been to court this week, i've been worried that someone might find online comments i've made indicating my fluid sexuality. Panopticon, eh.)

1) i think straight-acting is basically consciously avoiding sending 'gay' signals. I don't think to use of 'partner' is to be 'straight acting'--it's clearly only very slight code for same sex partner. i use partner because the term 'husband' makes me very queasy.

3) no--i think the fact that people 'assume straight' at all is _their_ problem. i don't do this. even when someone's married, their sexuality is a whole nother country, no?

4) i say, use whatever works and don't worry too much. above all, trust your instincts--someone in that place may have been sending signals that--whether rationally or irrationally--seemed vaguely troublesome for you. I'm all for being gentle with ourselves and even irrationally protecting ourselves sometimes--the world is just too hard a place.

HEADSHOP ELEMENT: Caring by Nell Noddings (I think--could be Sara Ruddick?) offers a critique of reverting to abstract rules for determining ethics: real violence, the deepest ethical violations, on a vast scale, often result from attempts to create hard and fast ethical codes.

alas.
 
 
Sleeperservice
09:38 / 23.02.02
What is straight-acting? Rough guide I guess is a non-effeminate man (however you define that).

How straight-acting am I? Very I guess. I just don't get the whole effeminate thing. At least, it holds no attraction for me. I like men after all. And I don't 'consciously avoid sending gay signals' . This is just the way I am and I find it offensive the way 'straight-acting' is used as a derogatory term in some circles. As though you have to be effeminate to be gay. Complete bollocks and pretty narrow minded IMO. Infact I dislike the term itself. Straight-acting. As though I'm not being myself. Pfff. I do think, and have been told, that I dance in a fairly 'gay' way though Although this has somat to do with 'gaydar' as women try to pull me occasionally so it's not something everyone notices...

I wouldn't feel deceived by the reticent colleague. As Alas says, 'assuming straight' is other peoples problem.

Saying partner is fine. Fairly big hint to me but having suffered enough abuse/violence from ignorant wankers a certain degree of circumspection is called for me thinks.

I work in a garage (fantasy element noted )in Peckham, a pretty grim, working class area of London and which, in itself, is somewhat unusual for a gay man, and yes, I'm fairly out at work. What strikes me is that all men are effeminate sometimes (obviously), although many would totally deny it when put in those terms and would be offended.
 
 
m. anthony bro
15:50 / 23.02.02
it's the grand 'straight acting' quiz, tell your friends!

1) What would you consider 'straight acting'?
-straight people. They don't suck dick for fun. In conventional terms, I guess gay men who aren't camp. Straight Acting is an allergy to camp, maybe a defence mechanism.

2) How 'straight-acting' are you?
-couldn't pick me in a line up, unless you got me really alarmed, then I squeal.

3) Would you feel 'deceived' if a colleague you'd worked with for a while admitted he'd allowed you to assume he was straight when he wasn't?
-no. I'd just assume that they weren't ready to come out yet. Everybody takes their own time.

4) Should I say 'partner' or 'boyfriend'?
-boyfriend. If that's what it is. (some crap about comradeship goes here).

Although, I'm not sure. Are boyfriend and partner different things? Boyfriend is a person you go out with on a casual basis with a prospect to more stuff, partner is the more stuff you're prospecting towards, right?

But, if the issue is "should I say I'm in a gay relationship?", then that's circumstantial. If you're in the middle of a rough place and some smarmy git taxi driver who hates coconuts, woofters and the like asks you, probably partner. If I were in the middle of Ponsonby* and someone asked me, I would be more inclined to reveal my taste for pillows.

But, I figure when a grown man says "off to see my partner" that screams "off to see my partner's wenus, with a view to activities of an adult nature".

*auckland's gay ghetto. I swear I saw a builder in drag there.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
05:20 / 24.02.02
[hey - lesbians can straight act, too! y'know, the ones who don't allow a little thing like a relationship to sully their careers....]

basically, eight years after coming out and leaving a disgusting, abusive man to boot, i am still incredibly happy and relieved to be out and free. i appreciate *every fucking day* of this. i always say 'girlfriend' instead of 'partner', i'm visibly lesbian because that's how i feel comfortable. in fact the only people who don't realise i'm a dyke are the ones who think i'm male.....

[ 24-02-2002: Message edited by: shortfatdyke ]
 
 
Disco is My Class War
04:16 / 25.02.02
I don't know what I am. I did get 'quite effeminate' on the straight-acting quiz. As a dyke, I'm certainly not straight-acting, but as other things, I really have no idea anymore.

This reminds me of the crazy lingo of queer personals ads, which is the only bit of the local g&l rag that I consistently like to read. Straight-acting is like a badge of honour there; sometimes I think it stands for more than just coming out or not. It stands for a certain kind of masculinity, maybe...
 
 
Sauron
10:06 / 25.02.02
The word 'partner' is interesting. Unless the person using the word is a middle-class wanker friend of Richard Curtis or Polly Toynbee, my mind always firstly assumes that 'Partner' means same sex anyway.

Re: straight-acting as a heterosexual it's probably regular behaviour. I do more gay acting- when walking down Old Compton Street or when talking to an attractive gay male. I'm not talking about camping it up like a twatish John Inman reject (although I did do Woman in Love beautifully at the Chinese Elvis eatery in Fulham on Friday [rot] very funny night out if you fancy leaving your cool at home- could be a good venue for a meet [/rot]), but just being a bit more gay - sorry, can't really explain, but I'm talking about a very very subtle thing. I don't know, I 'm quite secure in my sexuality, I think, but I certainly find some men aesthetically attractive and I think we all like attention from any source, no matter what our sexuality. Anyway, I'm rambling and I think this is a different point from the original, but I hope it makes sense.

And I certainly wouldn't feel deceived, more intrigued if I hadn't worked it out myself.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
10:32 / 25.02.02
how relevant are your answers if you don't have to 'act' straight?

<ducks brickbats>

Thanks sfd for pointing out that this isn't just a man thing. There's a different set of codes as a straight-acting f but it's still there...

As for me, this one strikes at the heart of all sorts of things for me, as I'm *not* a lesbian, and *not* straight. That's about all i'm sure of on this one!

Beginning more and more to identify strongly as a fencesitter and happy with that, but that opens up a whole invisibility question?

What do fencesitters look like, how are we identifiable... Not at all sure how to 'unstraightact', knowing that I do want to, I'm kind of with sfd on this one, safety permitting as it ties into things about sexuality/public sex/radical sex for me, there are circs when it's dangerous and that's a different issue, but short of wearing a 'fencesitter' t-shirt (hmmm. which would be an utterly 2-d presentation of myself, and would be grim on those grounds. Define me by my sexuality, yes please) I'm probably going to be assumed straight.

Hmm,

1)don't know, i swing (unsuprisingly. hah.) in behaviours, none of which seem to quite fit with male/female stereotype of non-straightishness... don't know, this confuses and destabilises me. hmmm

2)pretty straight-acting I guess, (floundering already as I don't nkow what to measure myself against on a s-a 'scale). Varies, sometimes reasonably 'obviously' dykish looking (going through a phase of presenting like this, and was childishly pleased to be cruised on a train t'other day), don't know how/if I ever look fence-ish... Often feel if i present as one or other I am 'cheating' in some way

3)No. upto them.

4)Dunno, say what feels good to you, I guess. Sauron, thass interesting I say 'partner' (lover etc) because to me it's gender indeterminate and that's importatnt to me. And was before I was aware that I wasn't straight...
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
10:49 / 25.02.02
1) What would you consider 'straight-acting'?

More Will than Jack but more so than Will.

2) How 'straight-acting' are you?

According to the most recent on-line test I'm more camp than a scout jamboree.

3) Would you feel 'deceived' if a colleague you'd worked with for a while admitted he'd allowed you to assume he was straight when he wasn't?

Not really, it's an issue of dealing with securities regarding outness.

4) Should I say 'partner' or 'boyfriend'?

Contextually dependant and variant against intersocial politics.
 
 
BioDynamo
08:42 / 26.02.02
I saw my grandmother in Sweden this weekend. She asked me how I was, and if I "had anyone". So I told her about breaking up with my girlfriend. And my grandmother goes: "Oh yes, well, I couldn't believe it when they told me you were seeing GIRLS. You always seemed so.. nice and.. all, with your long hair and everything."

I was quite surprised that she has always assumed I'd prefer boys. But I guess I'm not really as 'straight-acting' as I thought.
 
 
The Natural Way
08:59 / 26.02.02
thass interesting I say 'partner' (lover etc) because to me it's gender indeterminate

It's not that interesting, Plums. I mean, how many straights are concerned w/ using a *gender indeterminate* word to describe their lovers? It's a dead giveaway that some sexual ambiguity is going on. The fact that straights are less likely to use the term just serves to illustrate society's default hetero-privilege.

[ 26-02-2002: Message edited by: You and Runce ]
 
 
grant
13:41 / 26.02.02
How did "gay-acting" come to mean effeminate? I mean, OK, I understand how, but, for instance, I don't know any women who speak like campy gay men. (Well, very few.)
What's with that?

Where did "gay-acting" behavior come from, anyway? Where's the link?
 
 
Bill Posters
13:08 / 02.03.02
Possibly here.

Unless you wanted an historical link, in which case I dunno.

quote:Originally posted by grant:
How did "gay-acting" come to mean effeminate?


I was walking down Old Compton street just today and saw a tall, well-built, shaven-headed man with a handlebar moustache, wearing combat pants and a lumberjack shirt, swaggering along, and I thought to myself, well, I thought, this may be London's gay heartland, but he has to be one of the straightest men I ever did see.

Um, that's rotty I know but I'm str8 and apart from a minor paranoia about not looking it (got threatened once on account of looking "effeminate") I haven't got much else to contribute. If I don't str8 act then it's not something I can help really.
 
 
Cat Chant
13:57 / 02.03.02
quote:Originally posted by You and Runce:
how many straights are concerned w/ using a *gender indeterminate* word to describe their lovers? It's a dead giveaway that some sexual ambiguity is going on.[ 26-02-2002: Message edited by: You and Runce ][/QB]


Sadly not in the department I work in; I spent my first few weeks deliriously convinced that I'd entered a parallel universe in which everyone was gay (much like the Blake's 7 universe, in fact...) only to discover that in fact everyone was just too liberal and "adult" to say "girlfriend" or "boyfriend".

Interesting thread, btw, 'Nesh, which I shall get back to when I feel capable of coherent thought.
 
 
Persephone
17:11 / 02.03.02
It's interesting that you say "sadly," Deva. I remember getting fairly irritated once with a girl who constantly referred to her "partner," when I realized that she was talking about a boy. My reaction was, "Don't try to be cool, it's boyfriend to you." I mean, I'm all living the heteronormative dream here... but for me it's like when a white person gets all enthusiastic about Korean food, I get a little, "Eat your own food!"

But then I wonder, what is it we're going for? Will it be better when someone says "partner" and it could mean anything?
 
 
w1rebaby
19:59 / 02.03.02
I think it's more that people have got so used to saying "partner" when they're talking about other people's partners - "feel free to bring your partner" - that they now use it to refer to their own situation as well.

I tend to say "girlfriend", but I'm just giving further information there. If anything I'd refer to her by name.

I guess I'm speaking from a pretty narrow social context here... I'm sure in a lot of places, nobody would use "partner", they'd always assume you had a partner of the opposite gender and use the appropriate term.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
05:46 / 03.03.02
quote:Originally posted by Persephone:
it's like when a white person gets all enthusiastic about Korean food, I get a little, "Eat your own food!"


which would be what?

and who's going to prove that "partner" has its origins in gay language? lot of people don't like being called a "girl" just because they're not married.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
07:12 / 03.03.02
I say partner and I'm talking about a boy. It depends on the context, actually; if I'm in a dyke context sometimes I don't 'come out' as a boy-lover. So I'll say 'partner' just 'cause it's easier and it doesn't mean I have to spend five hours explaining how it can be that I'm in this place, possibly interesting in picking this woman up, and have a young man at home... And I'd much rather say 'partner' in a hetero context because I hate being invisible and coded het.

Argh. I am confusing myself. I have given up on theory and am now sailing on my very own in a little boat where there are no pronouns and no bloody labels and no people who ask you to be consistent with what you were five minutes ago. </rant>
 
 
Bill Posters
07:12 / 03.03.02
Whoever above said 'partner' avoids the word 'girl' of 'girlfriend' is dead right. And it has other uses too. I mean, it's just hit me how 'radical' us barbeloids must be relative to my family. The term 'partner' has just been introduced into their vocabulary, with a great deal of controversy and debate. The reason? Has a polymorphously perverse multilectic dodecohedron of affection and attraction between gender indeterminate individuals finally come to their attention? Well not exactly. Now, this may shock, but the reason for the new terminology being introduced into the 'Posters' clan is that I have a cousin and,

<lowers voice to a hushed whisper>

she and her feller are not married. Hence, as my poor 95-year old grandma felt the need to explain to me at least a dozen times at the last get-together, they are "partners".

As you can see, I come from a long line of radical folk.

<slumps back in despair>
 
 
Persephone
11:52 / 03.03.02
All points taken, what I was saying was more in the line of expressing mixed feelings and poking fun at myself really. I actually favor more the use of partner to mean anything.

About the food, same as above... but just as an example, the personal mission of the editor of the cooking magazine that I subscribe to is to define "American" food, and has written rather impassioned columns to explain how a variety of ethnic foods, while delicious, are not "American." And like in a review of soy sauces, for example, La Choy is described as "The one we all grew up with," and I think, funny, they never had that shit La Choy at the Oriental Mart when I was a kid. Having you and yours excluded from what means American --and it happens on a not irregular basis-- tends to provoke a defensive reaction, though obviously I try to rise above.

[ 03-03-2002: Message edited by: Persephone ]
 
 
Mystery Gypt
19:40 / 03.03.02
[off topic but related by metaphor and tangent]

Ah! it is exactly this self-contradiction in American cuisine that i find so interesting, and which is the clearest (and least emotionally volale) way in which to view America's self-denying nature. Ultimately, there is NO SUCH THING as a clear cut and pure american cuisine. walk down a strip mall and everything is "ethnic" -- chinese food hear, italian there, Real Southern Cooking -- even the biazarre trans-city labelling like "Boston Style" pizza when yr in chicago and vice versa. All of this confusion reflecting exactly the way in which the idealized american -- idelaized by white middle classers, i mean -- is a completely mythological entity composed of its relationship to all the other actual entities making up the population. so on the one hand, persephone, while i understand exactly what you mean on the emotional level, the debate between "my food" and "their food" is exactly the thinking that American unconscious racist identity is founded upon.

[/off topic -- but it connects to sexuality too! ]
 
 
pantone 292
20:00 / 05.03.02
is good thread. meant to contribute to the 'gay-acting' one too, more seriously than i did sorry sleaze...
anyway, re partnering - i'd use that to describe myself if i was partnered rather than g/friend or b/friend which always gives me horrible memories of school anyway... regarding other couples, if they are together, of whatever combination but not married I call 'em 'partners' if however they are married that's how i refer to the: youknowwhativity must be named and owned...;-)

but ontopic of straight-acting i think about this constantly vis-a-vis teaching since if I just shut up and expressed no views about gender/sexuality i'd doubtless be taken for str8. but I'd never preface anything categorically by "speaking as a" so in a sense I never 'come out' in class but am out by deduction. I have a range of references that str8 people dont usually or comfortably have, and I make sure I don't refer to broad generalisations of 'love' or whatever - but use the predicate 'heterosexual' or 'lesbian' or 'gay' to keep those things in question. Am also prone to diesel t-shirts tho this is probably an irony with an audience of about 3.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
09:08 / 06.03.02
yeah, alot of the above is how i approach things, i'm often quite explicit about pointing out the non-heteronormativity of topics if that's where i'm coming from on them, or that's where i'm getting my references/pointers from,... and prob. feel need to be, so as to point out non-straightness
 
 
that
11:36 / 25.03.02
Last night I saw the film 'Go Fish' for the first time. The one bit that really resonated with me was where the main character, Max, is talking about basically not looking enough like a dyke - the knowledge that she is not waiting for a man, but not being able to shake the sensation that there is a man waiting for her. I feel kind of the same. Once upon a time, I was very androgynous, short hair, v. thin. The casual glance made it hard to determine my gender, and my ex (male) first thought I was a boy, then thought I was definitely a lesbian - and we were once taken for a gay male couple by a couple of kids who shouted insults at us briefly. I also had a group of girls take the piss out of me for my 'masculine' appearance. Then, somehow, magically and without thinking about it, I got more and more femme, I guess, and woke up one morning and thought, fuck, how did I get here? I am not necessarily comfortable with it, but can't be arsed to do much about it. Generally, people who are inclined to assume first, would assume that I was straight. I am quietly out, I guess - but feel like I should be *more* out... this is all weirdly tied into my recentish trip to the tattooists, that precipitated a bit of a freak-out. He took me for the conventional type because of the way I was dressed, and treated me like a very dim labrador, not worthy to tread the boards of the counterculture - and people automatically assume I'm straight. And I'm not either, and it pisses me off. But I am not really getting anywhere with this, except to say that the issue of visibility is fraught at present. My identity is not expressed through some specific mode of dress, but sometimes I feel like I should make more of an effort to be visibly queer... Yesterday, for my presentation, I looked far more 'like a dyke' than I usually do...and I liked it. I would've been curious to see if the reaction would have been better if I had gone in a sort of netty top that might've indicated an interest in the media-friendly fluffy-handcuffs variety of SM for instance...instead of marked me out as a gen-u-ine sexual deviant, fa la la la la. Not that I care, but purely as an experiment, it would have been interesting to compare...

And, to me, 'partner' and 'boyfriend' mean different things. I called my male ex my partner, not because it was gender-indeterminate, but because of the level of commitment we had. However, I *say* girlfriend and mean (internally) partner, because I don't believe in playing the pronoun game unless it is physically dangerous not to. For me it is important to acknowledge that I am not ashamed of being not straight. That sort of visibility and honesty is important, to me.
 
 
Lurid Archive
12:06 / 25.03.02
I confess! I am one of those pretentious liberal hets who often use the word "partner" instead of "girlfriend".
This is mostly because I, like others, dislike the girlyness of "girlfriend".

This does mean that peope sometimes think I'm gay - there are probably other reasons too. I see no harm in that and possibly some good. If we don't want a standing assumption that everyone is het then we surely have to accept some confusion in both directions.

Personally, I see no need to be absolutely certain about a person's sexuality unless
1) I am sexually interested - in which case, I would find out pretty quickly or,
2) They are a close friend, in which case I would probably already know.
 
 
Tamayyurt
12:22 / 25.03.02
dude, don't say "partner". It's obvious you mean boyfriend and it sounds so cold. If I would have been the barber I would have asked if you were a cop...just to mess with you and to see if you woud have specified or if you would've chickened out.
 
  
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