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Bad news

 
 
pointless and uncalled for
10:37 / 20.02.02
But I thought that this was worthy of being bought to your attention.

Lesbian mother denied custody because of sexuality.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
10:48 / 20.02.02
i should know this but i don't: do homosexuals have rights in the US? what i mean is, if the judge had made similar comments on racial grounds, would he have been fired?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:49 / 20.02.02
The jaw-dropping details.

quote:Last Friday, the state Supreme Court handed down an opinion in the case of a lesbian mother seeking to win custody of her three teen-age children from their father. The father, she charged, was both verbally and physically abusive. A state appellate court had agreed with her, but by a 9-0 landslide, the state justices said no.

In a 35-page concurring opinion, Chief Justice Roy Moore unleashed a torrent of what the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force called "abhorrent rhetoric" that described homosexual conduct: "immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of nature's God, upon which this nation and our laws are predicated."

The idea that American jurisprudence is based on "nature's God" led Task Force Executive Director Lorri Jean to call for Moore's recall from the bench. "It is appalling," wrote Jean, "to see that blatant bigotry and unrepentant ignorance reign supreme in Alabama's highest court. Chief Justice Moore has decreed that his personal religious beliefs will now be the law of the land in Alabama. This violates the constitutional mandate of separation of church and state and it renders him unfit to serve as a judge."

Linking the opinion with Tuesday's rally, Jean wote: "There is a connection between hateful speech and hateful action. On the anniversary of the brutal salying of Billy Jack Gaither, we call for an end to aborrent rhetoric like that of Chief Justice Moore."

Echoing the theme was the state coordinator for the Gay and Lesbian Alliance of Alabama, David White, who told the Associated Press that Moore was an embarrassment to the state.

"It's obvious he cannot judge a gay person fairly, and he should be removed from office," White said.

The case was litigated by attorney Wendy Crew, who was unavailable for comment due to illness.

The National Center for Lesbian Rights' Shannon Minter called Moore's opinion a "travesty," and noted that the same state Supreme Court has authored one of the worst gay family law decisions on record, in the 1998 case of a lesbian mother who lost her kids after she found a life partner to help her raise them.

Minter said the gay legal establishment thought long and hard about appealing that case into the federal courts. "We thought about it very seriously because the court there just blatantly held that there are two different standards of custody rulings -- for a straight couple you look at whether a child is in harm's way, and for a gay couple, you don't. This case," said Minter, "is even more extreme."


Jesus.

FUCKING.

Christ!
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
10:53 / 20.02.02
Difficult for me to answer that one.

If he had made the same comments about blacks he would be investigated.

I would imagine that the same comments made in California would have gotten his ass kicked from the bench. However, these comments were made in Alabama and in terms of the judicial system each state is largely self governing outside the provisions of federal law which would not cover custody decisions.

Alabama is bible belt and his comments were christian related.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
10:59 / 20.02.02
well, 'alabama' did kind of wave at me from the text! i don't really know what to say when i hear about stuff like this, except that i have the greatest regard for the gay rights groups down there who are trying to change things. because it must be really fucking risky to be queer (or presumably anything other than white, straight and ultra conservative) in places like that.
 
 
bitchiekittie
11:01 / 20.02.02
[sfd - the laws and rules tend to differ from state to state, and for certain things (like health insurace), from company to company. while changes are coming, and its technically illegal to discriminate against anyone for sexual religious or racial reasons, it seems to be still fairly acceptable to do so]
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
11:03 / 20.02.02
There are actually a lot of arguments bouncing around the states regarding the division of church and state which is at the very root of this case.

Based on the information provided by the article it's hard for me to judge which way this will go. Sadly this is a reality that may well get buried.
 
 
Laughing
11:09 / 20.02.02
Originally posted by shortfatdyke- because it must be really fucking risky to be queer (or presumably anything other than white, straight and ultra conservative) in places like (Alabama).

I grew up as a bisexual liberal atheist in a small town in Alabama, and believe me you don't know the half of it.

The mother charges the father with being physically and verbally abusive? In Alabama that's called "good parenting". This ruling saddens me and sickens me, but doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
 
 
Fra Dolcino
11:26 / 20.02.02
Hasn't the US got a bill of rights for this sort of thing? Y'know, the right to pursue beliefs and lifestyles in freedom, without persecution, etc; or is that just for the tourists?
 
 
bitchiekittie
12:57 / 20.02.02
doesnt mean that people are willing to back it up - dont forget this is a country who is very deep into their religions. not to say that all religious people are all intolerant, only that there are enough of the jerk-type to make a very loud noise when they perceive something as being "wrong"
 
 
Bear
13:05 / 20.02.02
Not sure if should post this but I was just reading an article slightly related (Rosie O'Donnel) and checked the message board, makes me thankful for Barbelith - really does -

Yahoo Message Board
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:05 / 20.02.02
Slim?

Dekapot Mass?

Y'all reading this, boys?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
13:12 / 20.02.02
I'll be totally honest...when things like this happen I have nbo idea what goes through the heads of the people involved. I don't get how some people think that gay people can't be good parents, teachers, workers, etc...

And yes, gay people don't have the same rights in the US, and the few they have are hated by some people. I worked in a HUGE company's HR department where domestic partner benefits were offered, and at least once a wekk I would get a call from someone asking why we give rights to gay couples. When I would give the standard explanation, I would get either a religious reason as to why it was wrong, or people saying it was discrimination since different sex unmarried couples didn't get the same rights. We woudl say that we only offered it because gay couples don't have the right to get married, and as soon as they could, we would change it to marriage form them as well...which was inevitably met with "That's just sick."

And people wonder why I am so cynical and hate most other human beings.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
16:01 / 20.02.02
Well, you like to think that the case will be appealed. It's an apalling decision, but one that certainly has the ability to make to the U.S. Supreme court, which would actually then change the law.

I hesitate to say, "Oh it's just Alabama," though Lord knows I'm glad I didn't grow up there. I keep thinking back to a vacation I took there where there were so many confederate flag rafts, towels, etc.) my big joke of the week was, "Gee, I would've brought my KKK towel but I guess I forgot it!"

Still, it would be unfair to call an entire state backwards thinkers. The LAWS in the South, on the other hand...

Bitchie is right. It does vary from state to state, and of course cities are more liberal than rural areas. I agree with SFD - you gotta give it up for folks who are fighting for LBGT rights in areas like this - I can't even imagine what that's like.

I guess I'm just going to hope this case gets appealed and goes all the way to the top. Sure the U.S. Supreme Court has been pretty awful as of late but even W hasn't been too horrible to gays and you like to think at the very least this would bring the issue more into the public consciousness.
 
 
Vadrice
16:34 / 20.02.02
As far as I'm concerned, the only real knowledge I have about being homosexual in such a state (which is a generalization and a stretch) comes from the Laramy Project by tectonic theatre... but it gave me the impression that for the most part (and the more urban you get the truer this seems to be) it's... if not exactly safe, possible to not be a whitebread republican hetro blah blah blah and get by.
The problem is that instead of getting mugged for your wallet (like any normal crime), you get the shit kick out of you and you get left for dead on the side of the road tied to a fencepost.
Or, in this case, you have to watch your children go to their drunkard abusive father (which I can only imagine might feel somewhat similar).
Don't think that apeals are going to help matters much, anyway... why things are stewing, these kids are living with dear old dad, and are probably assimilating some of his more "colorful" qualities.
This lady, to make her point about god and homosexuality, fucked these kids. They're screwed.
I always cringe when people ruin other's lives for ideology. It doesn't matter to me much that in this case it's an ideology I find morally reprehensable. I would be acting the same way if this was FOR gay rights, and they were giving them to her, though SHE was the abusive one (to be hypothetical some more).
 
 
Ierne
18:13 / 20.02.02
This lady, to make her point about god and homosexuality, fucked these kids. They're screwed.
I always cringe when people ruin other's lives for ideology. – Vadrice


I always cringe when people don't understand what's really happening.

She was the better parent and wanted what was best for her kids. That's why she fought for them – not to make an ideological point. If anyone, Justice Moore deserves scorn for putting his own predjudices before the lives of these children. He "fucked" them, not the mother.

[ 20-02-2002: Message edited by: Ierne ]
 
 
Slim
18:33 / 20.02.02
quote:Slim?
Dekapot Mass?

Y'all reading this, boys?


Seeing as how the only topics I've been posting in are ones dealing with US foreign policy, why do you think I need this pointed out to me? Forgive me, for I do not see the connection between my attitudes towards foreign policy in the Middle East dealing with terrorists and domestic policies created by the state courts of Alabama dealing with homosexuality.

For the record, I support homosexuals and their fight for their rights, including the right to adopt. But I'm glad you thought of me
 
 
Vadrice
18:50 / 20.02.02
sorry. freuidian slip. by this lady I meant the judge justice. who is not actually a lady. My mind hates me sometimes.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
23:54 / 20.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Solitaire Rose:
I'll be totally honest...when things like this happen I have no idea what goes through the heads of the people involved. I don't get how some people think that gay people can't be good parents, teachers, workers, etc...



I do. It may sound like a cliche, but in many churches I have been to in the bible belt, a point was made that children are not to question 1. The Bible, 2. Their parents, and 3. The minister.

Many times in highschool I was told to not associate with known homosexuals, because we were at all times to "avoid the face of evil". Even for the people with open minds and those who just want to rebel, homosexuality was something very few had contact with (well, with them being aware of it). It gets to the point where even people who try and keep an open mind come to think of homosexuals as capital-g Gay and nothing else. It took living with a gay man for me to realize that their sexuality really wasn't the defining part of their personality. It's just the whole stupid way the church influences things down there.

As disgusted as I am with this, I'm not surprised. I've seen stupid, mindless hatred like this before.
 
 
Slim
02:12 / 21.02.02
JOTZA is right. To anyone who's been to Alabama (or Mississippi, for that matter) shouldn't be surprised by this result. They still walk around using the word "nigger" and I'm fairly many of the citizens scape their knuckles on the ground.
 
 
Ganesh
10:09 / 21.02.02
"Nature's God"?

Fucking Hell...

[ 21-02-2002: Message edited by: Ganesh v4.2 ]
 
 
m. anthony bro
17:51 / 21.02.02
you know what? I'm really getting sick of american politicians. But, more than that, I'm getting really fed up to the back teeth with the American public.

In the US congress sit 435 men and women who wouldn't give a fuck to anything other than their secretaries. Who don't seem to care about:
1) Stopping people shooting each other
2) Stopping large corporations running the country
3) Stopping massive environmental damage
4) Helping a huge, huge, huge number of people who can't afford to fucking EAT
5) bombing the poorest nations on earth to prove a point

And, then they tell us, that because we're gay, WE'RE immoral. Aforementioned list and ignorance thereof is immoral. Being gay is who I fuck. I fuck one person at a time, not an entire country.

But, 280 million arses support 280 million people who aren't even going to try and do anything about it. 280 million people is a lot! It's enough that if they gave a fuck and voted en masse, that a lot of people would be in government would be in a lot of trouble.

But, they don't! Grrr. And, same goes for: the UK and Australia. Is that the best government you could have? Is that how much you're worth?

fuck!

So, this comes as no surprise. And, I feel horrible c/o the lesbian mom, but not surprised. To say "That's Alabama" is silly. Alabama doesn't have to be like this. The judges don't have to be cocks. And, 4 million Alabamans don't have to sit on their ass while people tell them how to fuck nicely.
 
 
Vadrice
19:29 / 21.02.02
amen, mike. a-fucking-men.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
04:14 / 22.02.02
I now know a lot more about this, and this is the judge who a couple of years ago put the 10 Commandments up on his court wall because he was on the State Supreme Court now and no court could stop him.

I don't think of this so much as a prejudice issue as I did before, but the work of a few very small minds in a backwater state. This is the same state that used verses from the Bible to defend slavery, allowed legal spousal abuse until just a couple of decades ago, and allows a man to run the Supreme Court of the state by "God's Law."

I hate so sound like a bigot myself, but if this is the kind of crap that southern states want to allow, let them. I just won't live there, and will treat things from their state like I do things from Thailand. I won't buy them until they change their ways.

What I don't understand is how people from the south have gotten so much political clout in the last 20 years...
 
 
alas
19:00 / 25.02.02
there's a fairly strong argument that the South actually won the Civil War, in a manner of speaking. The South has almost since the beginning had an inordinate amount of political control, despite having traditionally had a smaller population. THat's changing, and especially as the South sucks up all the aging retirees from the North, who tend to be more conservative--especially on sexual matters--than younger generations, the old standards are getting reinforced. I do believe that things are changing; I do believe that slowly young people are developing more fluid ideas about sexuality, but there's still a lot of hatred out there and systemic, instutionalized support for that hatred.

alas.
 
  
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