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Animal, Mineral and Vegetable

 
 
The Planet of Sound
10:51 / 19.02.02
[from The Laboratory That Nobody Ever Seems To Post To]

I don’t believe in the distinction between animal, mineral and vegetable any more. Yep, kingdoms are an easy way of classifying things for those naturalists among us, but like most classifications they’re abstract, and half-truths. I think that geographical phenomena should be observed by biologists, that mountains are formed and eroded by processes that are more akin to the growth and shedding of skin than is popularly accepted. I embrace Gaia theory with open arms; the planet earth is a living organism, the universe itself is alive, the ‘solar system’ model of the atom is more than just metaphorically valid, the sun is a thinking nucleus, the big bang would be better understood by midwifes or experts in cell division than by scientists brought up on pyrodynamics and big rockets. Who thinks I’m talking hippy bollocks?
 
 
odd jest on horn
12:11 / 19.02.02
me
 
 
Re-Set
16:22 / 19.02.02
Sounds good to me, considering animals are made up of vegetable and mineral. Vegetables feed from mineral and dead animal. And dead animals and vegetables often wind up minerals again.
 
 
ciarconn
00:11 / 20.02.02
There are some serious interdisciplinary scientific studies being done, but they stay in the clasic science perspective.
 
 
tom-karika nukes it from orbit
06:32 / 21.02.02
In my head, I tend to classify it two ways, self-replicating chemicals and non-self replicating chemicals. the latter are not alive, and so unless the earth/solar-system/universe has plans to reproduce, I consider it dead.

That said, I think that there is a self-replicating element, but non on an earth-like scale, more like the intergalactic systems of supernova->dust cloud->star->supernova.
 
 
The Planet of Sound
06:32 / 21.02.02
What if, humans being unsustainable organisms on Earth (judging by our continued attempts to race towards a 'Soylent Gree' type scenario), it's the ultimate goal of humanity to transmit our genes and memes into other solar systems, in much the same way a virus transmits its DNA (RNA?) from cell to cell? Would that count as a plan to reproduce?
 
 
The Monkey
22:35 / 26.02.02
Planet,

I'd say "no," as an answer to your statement, but I don't particularly like evolutionary-deterministic models. While the model of the "selfish gene" provides an interesting intellectual sketch of the motivations behind behavior, it's feasibility/provability is already stretched to its limits.
The hypothetical drive to pass on genetic material works for individuals, not for species-groups...ecologically, an individual of a species experiences more niche-resource competition from its species-mates than from other species. Evolutionary adaptations, arguably, are physiological changes to adapt to changing ecological conditions so as to better survive. In the strict, scientifically-conservative scope of things, there is thus no absolute destiny or direction for our species, only the likelihood that over time we will change or die.

To subvert/invert the question, I'd say if humans continue to progress toward saturation and resource depletion, we'll end up in more of an adapt-or-die scenario. Either the extincton will trim the human population down to a more homeostatic level, or certain groups will, over time, by their occupation of a specialized niche, begin to further diverge from the gene pool, until such time as they are no longer entirely compatible with the human gene pool.

Perhaps there will be the movement out from the planet: perhaps not even a biological adaptation, but a technological one. Then again, perhaps we'll first adapt/move toward the sea, which is a lot of space we don't occupy. Also sub-surface.

You'd probably enjoy "The World Jones Made," by the way.

"Gaia Hypothesis" I know nothing about, so I can't really discuss it intelligibly. Does the model postulate the planet as organism or as sentient?
I find it interesting that the cyclicality of ecological/astrophysical structures is being used as an argument for the "organismal-ity" of these phenomenon. The whole model could be inverted to a Platonic schema: our patterns are shoddy reflections of cosmic ones; theirs eternal, ours limited and entropic.
By the way, the latest in physics theory says the universe is going to disperse infinitely, not contract and bang again. I prefer to think they're wrong.
 
 
Tom Coates
08:41 / 27.02.02
We're clearly talking about typologies at the moment - and at a certain point typologies come down to epistemology (at least they seem to from my perspective).

I suppose there rae two positions here - one is that the typologies you describe are a kind of kuhnian paradigm and that all your describing is a paradigm shift to another set of typologies - the other is that the process of creating typologies is a necessary, fundamental but flawed process - which is where you get into questions about the nature of knowledge and knowing and end up with a kind of post-modern scepticism/crisis.
 
 
The Planet of Sound
08:41 / 27.02.02
A scepticism crisis sounds like where I started off. I'm really more interested in thinking about what [monkeys] describes as 'deterministic' models of evolution, and how they would fit in with James Lovelock's Gaia hypothethesis/theory (also good old Rupert Sheldrake and his morphognenic fields), in an imaginary kinda way. It seems to me that if we strip down to a replicator way of thinking, then on a macro scale, evolution (even all human progress) does become goal-orientated ie simply to replicate/change. Why don't we label mineral/chemical patterns of change as determinist (eg calcification, oxygenation)? Could it be that the replicators which have developed on our planet are some aspect of some infinitely huge biochemical change?
Also repurcussions of adopting a cellular way of looking at the structure of the solar system, rather than atomic; what if the Sun does exert influences, in extradimensional ways we're not organically equipped to 'experience', in the same way that a cell nucleus influences mitochondriae without the lil' critters knowing a thing about it?
 
 
The Planet of Sound
20:01 / 19.03.02
Just thought that I'd bang this baby up to the top of the list, in case anybody wants to discuss my pseudoscientific obsessions.

I'm unemployed. These things play on the mind.
 
  
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