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Do you want to be an evil bastard?

 
  

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Jack Denfeld
08:01 / 08.03.03
Do any of you want to be an evil bastard? Do you want to accomplish certain goals, and have so much power, and understand that these goals are evil in your opinion? But you don't really care as long as it benefits you?
I've heard some people say that evil people don't realise they're evil. But surely some of them do. What stops you from crushing people in your way on the way to achieving greater power?
Is it the notion that if everyone treats each other nice that you will be treated nice? If the goal is to be treated nice couldn't you achieve this by gaining as much power as possible? Is it laziness? Is it just less time consuming to be kind than to put in the long hours of plotting and scheming and crushing your enemies?
Are you an evil bastard at all? Do you do something that you know is harmful to others, but you do it anyway because you benefit from it?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:02 / 08.03.03
I'd like to think it was because I'm a nice person, want to be a nice person and spread love and happiness in my wake, but certainly at times it's because being either 'good' or 'evil' is so much damn effort. So sometimes I certainly do 'bad' things when I feel too lazy to do the 'good' thing which would mean having to work harder, and the opposite is also true.

I also don't really have any goals that would require me to be nasty to people for a living. I'm not an MP, tax collector or car clamper. So being nasty would actually be counter-productive.
 
 
Icicle
11:24 / 08.03.03
No way. I want to be nice and hope I am. I was walking down the street the other day and I saw this boy, about ten years old, he was holding a frog in his hand and his friend's told him to kill it so he started punching it. I'm sure he knew it was evil. He was doing it for attention. I'd say that evil people who don't know they're evil aren't evil. They're clinically insane.
 
 
that
12:27 / 08.03.03
Christ, that's a depressing story...
 
 
Shrug
12:29 / 08.03.03
First you have to consider what evil is, is evil the actual act of doing evil things or is it just sitting back and letting them happen does the average persons general apathy and laziness make them inherently evil?

I've done some pretty evil things in my life, some pretty good ones too. I did always root for the bad guy in cartoons though, maybe I am evil, but better that than hiding behind a nicey nice pc facade like some people I know.
 
 
Icicle
12:51 / 08.03.03
I'd think of evil as a purposeful act, rather than just being lazy, perhaps we let something not very nice happen because we are lazy and see it as being too difficult to change, but that's not really evil, it seems more like we just can't be bothered to be good.
 
 
Cat Chant
13:26 / 08.03.03
I've just been cast as an evil bastard in a particular emotional scenario, and I have to say it feels tremendously liberating not having to take responsibility for the other party's well-being any more: but I don't think I *am* an evil bastard. Though I am spending time dancing about to Husker Du ("I Apologize")/Future Bible Heroes ("I'm Lonely And I Love It") and gloating/doing Evil Overload manic laughter, so maybe I am.

Off to write cross letters and compile cross mix CDs. Christ, I'm not an evil bastard, I'm a fourteen-year-old*. Never mind.

*implying no incompetence on the part of *actual* fourteen-year-olds. I keep being an ageist bastard at the moment ("Well, of course, with the internet being swamped by slash written by fourteen-year-olds it's becoming harder and harder to find the good stuff...") Is *that* evil?

Ooh. Ageism thread.
 
 
pomegranate
16:44 / 08.03.03
I have this insane compulsion to always take the high road. I have extensive revenge fantasies and I love the movie The Hand That Rocks the Cradle cos she is sooo ingenius in her scheming. But I can't exact revenge on people who have done me wrong, let alone do wrong to random innocents.
A good example: I got this album before it came out by this guy I'll call...rono. I got it from our mutual friend, who I'll call...gb. Rono and I were kinda friends, too, cos of gb. So gb and I got into a huge fight, just crazy nastiness, and it wasn't my fault (really). (I could get into it, but for the sake of brevity, trust me.) So then rono started talking a bunch of shit about me, like insanely insulting untrue shit. And he also wronged a good friend of mine, whom I'll call mao, as well. And everyone said, you should give a copy of rono's record to everyone you know. And I said no. And mao said, at least give it to me. And I wouldn't, I couldn't. I mean, this guy rono called me a slut, a whore, said I used guys for their money and their connections, it was crazy. I've never been so degraded. And I still couldn't give his record out. I wish I could be more vengeful.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
00:20 / 09.03.03
Who told you? Go on, who's been telling tales? I demand to know WHICH OF MY MINIONS HAS BETRAYED ME!!!
 
 
Jack Denfeld
22:52 / 10.07.04
Can you scheme to be a good person? Or is that just called planning?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:21 / 10.07.04
Stephin Merritt is definitely the man to talk to here, with "ILAILI" and, from the new Magnetic Fields album, "I Wish I Had an Evil Twin":

I wish I had an evil twin,
Running 'round doing people in.
I wish I had a very bad
And evil twin to do my will.
To cull and conquer, cut and kill.
Just like I would, if I weren't good
And if I knew where to begin


Nietzsche draws an important distinction between "bad" and "evil". Bad is just what you are if you don't have the qualities that your society identifies as good. So, if you are living in a Homeric epic, you are bad if you are not brave, beautiful, skilled in battle... "evil" is a very different kettle of fish. Evil is a positive quality that is identified by the people who are identifying themselves as morally rather than socially good in others.

Thersites is bad, but not evil. Mezentius is evil but not bad. Turnus is neither evil nor bad, he's just very, very unlucky.

I've been bad, in the sense of being unromantically and unexcitingly a crappy human being, quite a lot. There was a point were I possibly was genuinely evil, but even then I suspect that the genuinely evil wouldn't have wanted me in their club, pointing out that I was actually just fucked up and messy. Left to my own devices, I would just have been self-destructive and pointless: it was only the fact that other people cared enough about me to put up with a certain amount of being made to feel awful or exhausted that made the condition dangerous.

So, is that evil? Possibly, but it's a highly environmental and also a particularly unprofitable form of evil. The fallout is, as far as one can tell, rather like being an alcoholic; you have to accept that you have that quality within you and try to minimise its effects.

More generally, pretty well all of us are supporting actual, genuine, honest-to-goodness evil, in the sense of a set of behaviours that fuck other people over, all the time. However, in doing so we don't necessarily get to be evil ourselves.

I'm interested that Mike Robot casts kindness as the easier choice, when this seems to me counter-intuitive. I'm not sure baout his logic, either - good people can surely also put in the hours gainign power and plotting the downfall of their enemies, no? Happens all the time.

Ah - checking the thread, Mike's identified the flaw in his own argument. Good good. Or possibly evil evil.

So, start off with what you mean by evil. For example, Praying Mantis' anecdote doesn't strike me as being about good or evil, but rather about people being ghastly and dim. There are, I suspect, far more ghastly and dim people around than there are either good or evil. I would hesitantly suspect that Deva's situation is not evil either, but rather about what people are prepared to do and to put up for each other, and the problems that are created when you bump up against their limits.

Oh, and Polythene - use of the term "PC" without being ready to explain exactly what you mean by it makes people both dim and ghastly. I imagine you are talking about hypocrisy, which is a very different animal, and one both more common to the lowlands of the West and far harder to spell.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
23:31 / 10.07.04
So, start off with what you mean by evil.
Someone said something about evil being in the eye of the beholder. I guess what I'm looking for is someone who sees their own behavior as evil, and doesn't feel bad about it.

I guess I'll buy that most people don't plan to be evil; that they don't try to do harm to others knowingly, or profit from crushing people. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that I can't think of anyone who calls themselves evil and actually deliberately works at being evil. I would think that out of all the humans who ever lived, someone would try it and be good enough at it, that his or her veiws would get out, and I could say "Oh, didja know that so-and-so was an evil bastard, and they knew it, and in fact worked quite hard at it?".
 
 
Jub
23:34 / 10.07.04
Like Tony Soprano? or Vic Mackey?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
23:37 / 10.07.04
Yeah, but they don't think they're evil, do they? Tony thinks it's an honorable family thing, and he seems to always have some excuse for fucked up things that he does to other people, and he can never seem to take the blame for anything.
 
 
Jub
23:48 / 10.07.04
so, why's he in therapy?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
23:50 / 10.07.04
Cuz he has those anxiety attacks. He thinks the therapy will help him with that.
 
 
flufeemunk effluvia
23:51 / 10.07.04
Umm... DUH...

Evil megalomaniacs got style, man.

Not everyone is cool enough to surround themselves with robotic clones...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:51 / 10.07.04
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear.
Farewell remorse: all good to me is lost.
Evil be thou my good.
 
 
Mazarine
01:19 / 11.07.04
I don't think I'm evil, and while evil has it's charm, I do try to be good. Yet I do seem to get accused of being evil on a fairly regular basis. Maybe it's because I'm so damnably cute and dye my hair red. Maybe it's the way almost everyone I hang out with starts eating far more candy than they ever did before and tends to stop exercising. Or the way I can coax people into long, unproductive naps.

But I'm very polite, and snuggly. I couldn't possibly be evil.
 
 
Lord Morgue
04:57 / 11.07.04
I think you are all making the comon mistake of equating simple garden-variety selfishness with pure, unadulterated EEEEEEVIL. Now look at me, for example. Not so long ago, I posted a simple image of a lemon being inserted into a chicken's rear. This not only caused Jub and Stoatie to freak, but Grey Area has hurt himself masturbating to it so much that he now needs wrist splints. Did I gain anything from this? No. Was it evil? Oh yes!
EVIL FOR EVIL'S SAKE!
 
 
No star here laces
06:27 / 12.07.04
I don't think people who are successfully evil call themselves evil, because that mindset is predicated on amorality not anti-morality.

So your classic dictator would probably say that he (because they usually are) had fought his way to the top and used every dirty trick in the book to get and stay there because that's what it takes rather than because he wanted to do nasty things.

e.g. Stalin, Pinochet, Saddam etc.
 
 
misterpc
07:06 / 12.07.04
It's clear that 'evil' is to a large extent culturally defined, and consequently consensus-based. In the societies most of us come from, that consensus has begun to fall apart, making it difficult to clearly identify what is 'evil'.

Using Stalin as a yardstick isn't very useful, but then neither is a kid punching a frog to death. In both cases, all we are able to identify is that these people don't share our own moral compass.

In such situations, evil is used as a convenient tag for behaviour that we just don't understand. It is probably true, however, that people that we consider evil do not, under most circumstances, consider themselves evil, since they believe their behaviour to be entirely justified.

All I know is that, under enough pressure, even the strongest moral code can start to bend. From the inside, I imagine that it's very hard to notice what's happening to you until it's too late.
 
 
misterpc
07:07 / 12.07.04
p.s. isn't this one for the Head Shop?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:20 / 12.07.04
Tricky. "The Problem of Evil" is probably one for the Head Shop, but Mike Robot was asking for personal comments on whether people want to be evil bastards. I'd suggest maybe starting a new thread *in* the Head Shop linked to this one.
 
 
lekvar
22:05 / 12.07.04
Every now and then I wrestle with the idea of being evil. They say scum rises to the top, right? I rarely see evidence of "instant Karma" in action, so the only thing (I tell myself) keeping me from being an evil bastard and taking over the region and ruling with an iron fist is the notion of a Supreme Being and Final Judgement, and I have no faith in either. In the end, the reason I haven't "gone to the Dark Side" is I don't think I'm clever enough to get away with it and my damned concience won't let me.
 
 
Ganesh
22:24 / 12.07.04
Not so long ago, I posted a simple image of a lemon being inserted into a chicken's rear. This not only caused Jub and Stoatie to freak, but Grey Area has hurt himself masturbating to it so much that he now needs wrist splints. Did I gain anything from this? No. Was it evil? Oh yes!
EVIL FOR EVIL'S SAKE!


Evil? Nahh. I'd say this was more Jackass-inspired gross-out (using found objects) for the sake of attention/validation. Less "pure unadulterated evil"; more the online equivalent of the little boy who runs after his friends with a dog-turd on a stick...
 
 
Lord Morgue
08:52 / 13.07.04
No, it would be crude shock-site work if I had used something like Goastse or Tubgirl, but I used an innocuous, yet brain-damaging COOKING illustration with harrowing resonances of such things. Nothing objectionable as such, but yet, the stuff of nightmares! Now THAT'S evil.
And what of your tewwibly gwown-up put-down, Ganesh? Trying to achieve validation by proving you're a bigger wet blanket than others? Perhaps you should take your act over to the clone thread on the head shop, I'm sure they'll appreciate it more over there. Or maybe we need a new thread on being a BORING bastard.
 
 
Ganesh
09:18 / 13.07.04
Well, if you can bear to down your turdy-stick for long enough, feel free to start one. And make it evil, won't you?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:23 / 13.07.04
Calm down, Morque.
 
 
Lord Morgue
09:56 / 13.07.04
You all KNOW I'm a whiny little ball of pus and hate, why do you insist on poking me when you know that I will burst all over you?
And no, I will not put my turd-stick down. I found it, it's MINE.
 
 
---
10:05 / 13.07.04
Do you do something that you know is harmful to others, but you do it anyway because you benefit from it?

Only if the others are twats that have it coming anyway, it's their own karma slapping them. The worlds that mad nowadays that you can probably go on your ruthless 'evil' rampage and just be delivering karma anyway. Kick em out and sit there yourself, so that i can worship the Robot!

Didn't we have something like this before, and you said something about a bell ringing? That you'd make everyone come and worship you by ringing a bell so that they could come at some point in the day? (yes, yes, we where playing.) I said i'll be ok as long as you let me meditate.

If you don't remember i'll search because i know it's here somewhere.
 
 
---
10:21 / 13.07.04
Lord of Merangue, STFU!

And what of your tewwibly gwown-up put-down, Ganesh?

He's doing his Freudian cigar smoking analysis thing, he'll be ok as long as he doesn't get addicted.

What about using evil for good then? AHHHH!!! Fighting fire with fire, being evil to an evil thing? Or is that just good in the end too?

Besides, any potential kings or queens of evil aren't really gonna admit it in barb conversation are they? (that would be soooooo dumb.)
 
 
John Paul Vann
11:40 / 13.07.04
I like sheep worrying, I tell them god doesn't exist & there is no afterlife.
Also when I see women in Burkas, I undress them with my eyes.

Is that Evil?
 
 
---
11:50 / 13.07.04
If i make any comments on human-sheeple and any possible connections i might as well just go and change my username to 'cliche', so i'm sorry but i can't help you with that one, you evil twat.
 
 
Lord Morgue
11:57 / 13.07.04
No, YOU stfoo! Or, or I'll IGNORE BUTTON you! Ooh, such an ignore buttoning I will give you. Oy, button ignore the you I will give. You'll NEVER get it unbuttoned!

Yeah, that's right, who's your Daddy.

Alright, who's next? Who wants some? Who wants a little? YOU! (points to hatstand in the corner, swaying unsteadily) Do you want some? Do you want a little? You call wor pint a poof? (falls over)

Good afterbubble, constanune.
 
  

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