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Deleuze - Notes and Queries

 
 
No star here laces
06:05 / 15.02.02
I'm currently struggling through Deleuze and Guatari's 'Anti-Oedipus' and there are a number of things about it I have real problems with and I'm wondering if anyone can help me with. (btw, I'm typing this on an Italian keyboard, so apologies if some of the characters come out weird)

1.) Style. I'm sure this is compounded by the fact that it's a translation, but I loathe the style this is written in. They appear to make no attempt to define terms or construct a logical argument. Concepts such as 'the schizophrenic' and 'the body without organs' are chucked into the text without a word of description or explanation. Then once these concepts are 'introduced' the authors grab them like a rugby ball and run at the reader full pelt with a torrent of rhetoric sans any form of structure or explanation. Any pointers to reading this style? Should I carefully examine each labyrinthine sentence for shreds of meaning, or is it best to whip through the thing apace and get a general sense of their thinking?

2.) Psychoanalysis. I could care less whether F&G can dig up Freud and piss all over his corpse. Of course Psychoanalysis is discredited, and I'm not particularly interested in reading a horribly dated deconstruction of it. I'm reminded of Marx's "The German Ideology" and the way it basically consists of ten chapters of irrelevant hectoring about Feuerbach and then two chapters of succinct summary of Marx's historical analysis. Where in "Anti-Oedipus" can I find those two chapters?

3.) References. D&G chuck in comments such as "follow Marx's rules for historical analysis". There is no explanation of these. Which rules, Marx has many? What if I disagree as to what rules Marx lays down? What if I disagree with Marx's rules in general (which I do - his view of history is utterly Euro-centric and generally fallacious)? Do I have nothing to gain from this text if I fail to share D&G's interpretations of, from what I can tell so far, the entire canon of continental philosophy?

4.) Schizophrenia. Really a sub-point to 1 and 3, but what do they mean by schizophrenia? When I studied schizophrenia for my psychology degree it was one of the most contentious areas of abnormal psychology. There are many different cognitive theories as to what is happening in the mind of a schizophrenic, never mind the complications you get into when you enter the mystical realms of psychoanalysis. Can anyone clarify for me how Guattari (I presume he was the expert of the two) saw schizophrenia?


Only queries so far - notes and discussion to follow once I actually start to understand the fucker...
 
 
Tom Coates
08:21 / 15.02.02
1) Style - I know exactly what you mean, but I think you have to view the style as a product of continental philosophy and a kind of post-structuralist frustration with the possibilities of logic and argument.

I have found that the trick with writers like this - and like Baudrillard - is to read as if they were some kind of philosophy-fiction - much as we have science-fiction. Allow yourself to feel the concepts in it without continually analysing the argument for consistency and logical structure. If you can do that, you can often find concepts that are completely at a tangent to what you might otherwise have expected. And also - you more often than not find that those concepts can be reintegrated with a critique of anglo-american analytic traditions. Relax into it. Think THROUGH it, don't WORK through it.

2) Psychoanalysis - the thing about Freud is the connections and associations he develops and introduces. And the OTHER thing about Freud is that there are actually two Freuds - the Freud that everyone now accepts without question and don't attribute to him and the OTHER Freud who wrote nutty things that are (sometimes not nutty at all, but are horribly) described in the media. Again - you allow the insight to inform your thinking and you throw away what you don't find useful.

But if you're looking for the part of Anti-Oedipus where they say what they're in favour of, then I'd suggest buying a book ABOUT it instead. I think Toril Moi's Sexual/Textual politics might have a good bit on that... Might be wrong though....

3) This is a problem and is a question of tradition. It's pretty clear that you're working in an analytic tradition and for those reasons you're GOING to find Continental stuff a little daunting, simply because it is so very different in spirit. I'd suggest attempting to get in touch with the spirit is more important than reading everything...

4) I would suggest you look at symptoms of schizophrenia and attempt to associate those with their arguments, rather than working from a theory OF schizophrenia...
 
 
Cavatina
08:49 / 15.02.02
Tom, there's nothing in Moi's book. Deleuzism: A Metacommentary by Ian Buchanan (Duke University Press, 2000) is helpful.
 
 
Tom Coates
08:49 / 15.02.02
I wonder what the book was I was thinking of... It's called something like Psychoanalytic Literary Criticism and I'm sure it's by a woman...
 
 
Tom Coates
08:49 / 15.02.02
And it's not the one by Maud Ellman which is awful.
 
 
Cavatina
08:49 / 15.02.02
I haven't read it, but there's Psychoanalytic Criticism by Sue Vice
 
 
Tom Coates
16:08 / 15.02.02
Nick might be a good person to talk to about Deleuze and Guattari - I believe he's got further through Anti-Oedipus than most. And our new companion Doll Soup certainly SHOULD have read it, even if he hasn't. So maybe you should ask him too...
 
 
pantone 292
20:19 / 15.02.02
The book Tom is thinking of is by Elizabeth Wright, alas I cant remember a thing about it. A good Deleuzean friend recommends Eugene Holland's book on 'em as a good guide.
Yes, I think I'm probably sympathetic to D&G but have given up on reading Anti-Oedipus twice since the style does indeed suck - and I'm willing to spend time with difficult continental texts.I always worried there was a real romanticisation of schizophrenia going on - 'I would rather be a schizophrenic taking a walk in a park than a hysteric on a couch' or some such. eesh, i'm too knackered to think...'nother time
 
 
Medea Zero
09:57 / 16.02.02
On the schizophrenia thing; try reading Guattari's book molecular revolutions which kinda kicks off a lot of the early anti-psych stuff. Massumi is good, but also very dense and prosaic; try looking up a user's guide to capitalism and schizophrenia. Paul Patton's book Deleuze and the Political is very accessible and pretty good. particularly if you're looking for a more useful angle on praxis and D&G. and maybe, just maybe try reading A Thousand Plateaus first.

I agree withTom's comments on style . To read these dudes, its useful to abandon your desire for and investment in linear narratives and arguments. I love their style; perhaps because I am guilty, frequently, of a similiar level of obfuscation and prose in my own work. Worry less about schizophrenia; think about rhizomes, desiring machines .... abandon the language you know.
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:57 / 16.02.02
Quote: Where in "Anti-Oedipus" can I find those two chapters?

The last section, which I can't for the life of me remember the name of. In particular, I think there is a chapter called something like 'the positive tasks of schizoanalysis'? That is where I'd recommend starting... also, Holland's book (something like 'D&G's Anti-Oedipus: Intro to Schizoanalysis') is very lucid and helpful, esp. if you don't like their wacky, 'hey it's the 60s' style.

The 'what is schizophrenia' question is connected to not giving a shit about psychoanalysis, historical context, etc. Freudianism/Lacanianism was the big thing in French intellectual/political circles which they are having a go at, and schizophrenia was the phenomena psychoanalysis just couldn't get at (i.e. analysts just wouldn't treat schizophrenics). So they are using it, roughly, to mean everything that gets left out of psychoanalytic ideas of the good, normal, well-adjusted, neurotic citizen...

As for the style question, either find secondary reading that explains the terms (i.e. Holland) or just whip through it and try to pick it up from context.

These are my sleepy morning answers, I may have better ones when I'm more awake. Also, I reckon read D's Negotiations, much more accessible and interesting...
 
 
Disco is My Class War
09:57 / 16.02.02
I borrowed Anti-Oedipus from the library and let it sit on my desk for a month, photocopied some quotes from it, read the first couple of chapters and then it went back to the library. But I do have some comments, as a presumably failed-Anti-Oedipus reader:

Tom is absolutely right about the style. Don't work at it. Read it before going to sleep, or alternatively, on the train. More famous people than I have made this analogy, but I reckon D/G is like punk music: in fact, Anti-Oedipus is their punk manifesto written in opposition to all that heavy-going Freud and Lacan stadium-rock drivel. So, read it like you'd listen to punk. Copy the good quotes out and don't worry too much about the bits of lyrics you can't understand... If you are entirely opposed to this, try to get hold of the Holland book, Deleuze and Guattari's Anti-Oedipus: Introduction to Schizoanalysis. Having done a lot of reading of Milles Plateaux, however, I am very wary of people's various crit-theory 'D/g: a layman's version' volumes. I think a cohesive, sensible explanation of their ideas goes against their whole grain. Which is, admittedly, just as annoying and juvenile as punk.

Also, don't worry too much about schizophrenia: it's schizoanalysis that matters. Read Guattari by himself to get a grounding in the kinds of practical applications of radical psychology he was involved in... There are also some good interviews where he lays it all out quite succinctly.

Lots of people say that Mille Plateaux is far more accessible, and it probably is. The preface to Milles Plateaux, by Brian Massumi, is particularly good. And in that text at least the begin by saying 'Don't bother to study this book, just read it in fragments and try to get some kind of weird random meaning' before you start. Whereas in A-O they don't.
 
 
nighthawk
15:41 / 02.07.06
I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I'm attempting to read Deleuze's Difference and Repitition for the second time, starting with the conclusion on the recommendation of a friend.

I've read a whole bunch of other stuff by Deleuze and none of it is as incomprehensible as D&R, which is a shame because its the purely philosophical stuff that I'm most interested in. At the moment I'm particularly confused about the 'affirmation of chance'/dice throws/'eternal return' stuff. I remember a chapter from Nietzsche and Philosophy on this, but I think I didn't really understand that particularly well either.

Can someone explain what he might mean by passages like this:

It is all a matter of difference in the series, and of differences of difference in the communication between series. What is displaced and disguised in the series cannot and must not be identified, but exists and acts as the differenciator of the difference. Moreover, repetition necessarily flows from this play of difference in two ways. On the one hand, because each series is explicated and unfolded only in implicating the others, it therefore repeats the others and is repeated in the others, which in turn implicate it. However, it is implicated by the others only in so far as it simultaneously implicates those others, with the result that it returns to itself as many times as it returns to another. Returning to itself is the ground of the bare repititions, just as returning to another is the ground of the clothed repetitions. On the other hand, the play which presides over the distribution of simulacra ensures the repetition of each numerically distinct combination, since the different 'throws' are not, for their own part, numerically but only 'formally' distinct. As a result, all the outcomes are included in the number of each according to the relations between implicated and implicator just referred to, each returning in the others in accordance with the formal distinction of throws, but also always returning to itself in accordance with the unity of the play of difference. Repetition in the eternal return appears under all these aspects as the peculiar power of difference, and the displacement and disguise of that which repeats only reproduce the divergence and decentring of the different in a single movement of diaphora or transport. The eternal return affirms difference, it affirms dissemblence and disparateness, chance, multiplicity and becoming. Zarathustra is the dark precursor of the eternal return...

That's from p.373 of the Continuum Impacts edition - there's more before it about Nietzsche/chance on 352ff.. Also, if anyone could shed light on what he means by Aion and the fractured/empty form of time I'd be very grateful. I think it has its roots in the Kant book, but I'm not sure what he means by it more generally...

Thanks in advance.
 
 
multitude.tv
17:24 / 02.07.06
First off, I should say, I love D/G and the style; actually I think they read a great deal like “the Invisibles,” in a non-linear, multi-plot style. Deleuze is by far the principle philosopher that I work with. That being said, I am no authority on him at all, and every time I read D/G I get excited, like before opening a surprise gift.

I love “Anti-Oedipus,” and I recommend Holland’s text (Introduction). Massumi’s text (“A User’s Guide”) was extremely helpful to me, and I would have to say that he (Massumi) has become one of my favorite contemporary thinkers. I haven’t read Hardt’s book on Deleuze, though I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has.

When I began reading Deleuze it was suggested to me that I pick up one of his books on another philosopher; thus I could see how Deleuze plays with the ideas that he incorporates into his toolbox. His book on Nietzsche is my favorite book written on the latter, and is incredibly elucidating in showing how thinkers other than Deleuze appropriate Nietzsche (Foucault for example). If you have no previous encounter with Nietzsche, Spinoza, Hume, Leibniz, or Bergson (among others), than I recommend beginning with a text like “Negotiations” or “Desert Islands” or “Two Regimes of Madness,” these are all shorter essays and interviews, the last one was recently published and was the last authorized text of Deleuze before his death.

In Anti-Oedipus, whenever I got confused or lost I would just put the book down, or find a random section to read for a bit in pieces, often reading another text of Deleuze (Nietzsche) along with. A return to the introduction on occasion may be helpful as well; I think that Foucault presents the thrust of the text rather well.

If you are specifically interested in Guattari, and what he brought to the table with the building of the text that made up “Anti-Oedipus” you may want to look at “The Anti-Oedipus Letters” which also just came out. This is a collection of the Guattari side of the correspondence that led to the Anti-Oedipus text. The text is just as much about Capitalism as it is about Oedipus.

On the music and Deleuze… I think of the rhythm more in terms of experimental music, especially electronic music: I can't read Deleuze to punk, but perhaps that's just me. Some artists have incorporated Deleuzian notions into their work. Many of those associated with Mouse on Mars put out a CD called “In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze,” it is electronic and it is experimental. DJ Spooky has also mentioned Deleuze as an influence. Then there are artists, such as “The Critical Art Ensemble” who draw heavily from Deleuze, as well as Stelarc.

For me, this is one of the most exciting things about Deleuze and Deleuze done well; that is, it itself can be a productive machine; people other than philosophers and academics are actively and consciously doing something with Deleuze. I am traveling about right now, but I will check in on this discussion and hopefully get in on details soon (such as the post above).
 
 
nighthawk
17:50 / 02.07.06
Should point out that the A-O stuff is from 2002, I just resurrected this thread because it seemed the most appropriate. That said I agree about Deleuze's work on specific philosophers. The little book on Spinoza is absolutely fantastic, as is Nietzsche and Philosophy. I didn't get very far with A-O last year and moved quickly on to Mille Plateaux. Once I learnt how to read it I really enjoyed it, although I've only ever dipped into it so my knowledge of it is very sketchy. I think I posted on it in the other D&G thread here.

I like the feel and style of Deleuze's works, but I've been educated in the tradition of anglo-american philosophy, which is why its Deleuze's solo straight philosophy that really interests me. On the face of things, its radically different from anything I've studied, and while I could recognise his Spinoza, I'm really struggling with the details of D&R (although I am starting to get a 'feel' for what he's doing).
 
 
nighthawk
20:47 / 02.07.06
I haven’t read Hardt’s book on Deleuze, though I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has.

I thought it was really good. He goes through the early studies of philosophers (minus Hume I think, although I could be wrong). From what I recall, his style is clear and comprehensible, and the content felt a lot more substantial and rigorous than other secondary literature I've read on Deleuze. I found Todd May's book quite lightweight, for example - tried to cover too much without properly getting to grips with any of it. Incidentally I think Hardt's book was a development of his dissertation, which is available here. The second half is about Antonio Negri I believe. You can also find Hardt's notes on A-O and Mille Plateaux there.
 
 
multitude.tv
15:24 / 03.07.06
Coincidentally I was going through Hardt’s on-line material right before I read your post. Thanks for the info on his Deleuze text. I have picked up the May book before; it didn’t seem to catch me. I am incredibly interested in post-Deleuze thought (though I find Badiou more or less pointless), especially folks using Deleuze (social, political, artistic, technological, etc) So do you (or anyone else) read any folks that could be called, post-Deleuze that are particularly interesting, I am reading Alexander Galloway’s “Protocol” right now; I am finding it quite insightful.

I think Deleuze is important enough that a fairly active thread on Deleuze/ after-Deleuze thought would be appropriate to Barbelith. Would anyone be interested in participating in a thread on Radical Thought after Italy; or a discussion of D/G inspired political/social thought (Hardt/Negri/Virno/De Landa/etc), and what possibilities there may be for affective action in light of these folks. Personally I come to them from the Continental tradition (rather than the Marxist), but I am interested in any discussion in this area.
 
 
nighthawk
16:23 / 03.07.06
I'd certainly be interested in a Deleuze/post-Deleuze thread, but I'm not sure how much I could contribute right now. My planned reading for the summer revolves around Spinoza/Deleuze/Negri/Hardt though so I might have something to add, but as I said, I'm not used to this sort of philosophy so my contributions to threads like this are usually requests for clarification/help. However judging by some of the other threads in Head Shop there are plenty of people here who would be able to contribute.

If anyone's interested in starting threads for close reading of particular texts I'd also try to join in. Books I was planning to read/dip into over the next few months: Difference and Repetition, The Logic of Sense, Capitalism and Schizophrenia (mainly A-O this time), The Savage Anomaly (Negri on Spinoza - I found this incredibly difficult last time I tried to read it), Empire (Hardt/Negri).



I don't really know much about post-deleuzian stuff, beyond people who are more or less working with him like Hardt/Grosz/DeLanda/Massumi. I had a look at Badiou, but I didn't really get him either and I decided one Continental philosopher would be enough for now. If you're a fan of Massumi you've probably come across this already, but his collection A Shock to Thought: Expressions After Deleuze and Guattari might be a good resource, if only to follow up the names of the contributors. I remember John Rajchman's book being concerned with inter-disciplinary uses of Deleuze too.
 
 
The Prince of All Lies
01:25 / 10.07.06
Well, my head's full of Deleuze since I have an exam at the end of this month for which I've been studying (on and off) for almost 2 years. I've read all of Anti-Oedipus and Milles Plateaux and loved them, especially the latter. I also read his books on Nietzsche and Spinoza, and will get into Critic and Clinic later, for my thesis, so if anyone wants to read that too, or make a thread about any of the other works I mentioned, I'd sure as hell participate.
Also, could any of you recommend a book or resource regarding academical works based on D&G? I've been looking everywhere but the ones on Google Scholar seem to be pay-per-read and the others I've found are pretty much useless or amateurish..
 
 
nighthawk
11:38 / 10.07.06
What's your thesis going to be on, TPOAL? I was reading about Essays Critical and Clinical in James Williams' book on D&R last week - he made brief reference to Deleuze's conception of health/illness, something I hope he'll develop later on.

Do you want academic work about D&G, or work employing their ideas?
 
 
The Prince of All Lies
18:09 / 10.07.06
I'm interested in actual work using their concepts..My thesis will be about V for Vendetta (the comic-book) and the "becoming-revolutionary" within it. It will be mostly a philosophical analysis (key concepts would be: totalitarianism, revolution, being = becoming, rhizomes and "tree structures"), partly a literary essay with some minor considerations about the specific medium of the comic-form and the way it affects the reader.
Yeah, quite a lot. I'm in the early stages anyway, but I've already surrendered to the notion that I'll have to use D&G as I see fit and without any "manuals" or guidelines. Like a box of tools, which is what they intended, probably.
 
 
razorsmile
12:23 / 14.08.06
BUMP*

well, perhaps I'm missing something but there doesn't seem to have been any sustained conversation about deleuze here despite some interest, so I'm adding my voice to the interest and bumping the thread in the meantime. when I was thinking about why there might not be any sustained conversation it came back, in part, to the difficulty of actually having a conversation about philosophy which is grounded on the fact that philosophical texts - in the 'continental' tradition at least, or perhaps, more accurately, in the tradition of the 'philosophy of difference' - are not about objects but operate as problematising constructs. thus if the problem isn't shared then the conversation rapidly reduces to an opinion exchange about the author or text, none of which is that interesting in the long term for anybody other than students deeply engaged in their attempts to incorporate a thinker into their own thought.

the suggestion then would be to try and draw out some sort of shared problem, perhaps one that is shared with deleuze if that is where the conversation is aimed. my own prejudice is to foreground the problem of a conversation but that is because it's part of my own personal obsession at the moment as I work on a text that is to a large extent a reading of deleuzian concepts in relation to other tactical situations, such as magic, communication, revolution and violence. such a prejudice, however, probably wouldn't get very far since it is related to my own dynamic of thought in the present moment. there are, however, a number of other areas that could be addressed.

anti-oedipus, for example, addresses the problem of ideology and revolution. difference and repetition the problem of genesis and determination. the problem of a thousand plateaus is the multiple, whist that of what is philosophy is the problem of thought. the logic of sense addresses the problem of genesis and meaning (hence it's very close relation to difference and repetition, the two should always be read in conjunction I think, with the expressionism book on spinoza a close companion - unsurpisingly really since these three texts were all part of an explicitly closely worked project of deleuze). of course, these big broad problem areas all need to be addressed through the concrete, deleuze would say, which in practice would mean a specific passage, concept or issue. given that the thread began with anti-oedipus and given that in anti-oedipus deleuze makes a break or move away from the earlier work that was focussed more on issues of determination and towards the overall dynamic of his later work which focussed more on practice, perhaps the interesting issue is the problem of schizophrenia or more accurately, as someone else mentioned, schizo-analysis.

In difference and repetition Deleuze at one point, when discussing the chink of light that Kant briefly opened with his concept of the intuition, claims that 'schizophrenia in principle...characterises the highest power of thought, and opens Being directly on to difference' (DR 58, athlone edition). the reaction to such claims usually comes down to a few rather knee-jerk reactions - how can you valorise such a terrible ordeal etc or, alternatively, if thought is really such a chaos then what use is it? if these reactions were not immediately accepted but put aside, and deleuze was given the benefit of a generous reading, what would prompt such a peculiar statement?
 
  
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