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Victoria Beckham: "I've never read a book..."

 
  

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Bear
14:47 / 29.04.04
low paid jobs, beer and the opposite sex.

Yeah I've had experience of those, gets me through the year.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:49 / 29.04.04
Myself and my brother have had a similar education, upbringing and opportunities. And yet, he is simply not interested in books or anything involving thought, study or application. He spends his time collecting DVD's and listening to 'nu' bands. I on the other hand, have read a book a week for most of my life, and hold interests in literature, thought, application, study, creativity etc.

Well, there's a simple explanation: you are Better than him.

There, that was what you wanted to hear, wasn't it?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:55 / 29.04.04
I mean honestly. "I hold interests in... thought... creativity..."

Because I'm sure your brother has no interests [sic] in thought. I'm sure there's no creativity in the things he watches on DVD or the music he listens to.
 
 
Jub
14:56 / 29.04.04
Leave him alone. This is a thread about not reading books after all. Okay, not really sure what the point is but you don't have to be such a meany about it. Even Haus isn't that bad!
 
 
Axolotl
14:58 / 29.04.04
There is nothing wrong with low paid jobs, beer and the opposite sex. I personally am a big fan of the last two, and as for the first one on the list, well we've all been there. In fact I am still there.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:06 / 29.04.04
My experience of low paid jobs is that they suck up your emotional, intellectual and creative energies to the point where all you fucking can do is flake out in front of the telly with a six-pack. You tend to have far less say as to how much overtime you get stuck with, the job itself is often physically demanding, and usually so tedious that you can feel your soul rotting inside you.

(And Convo mods: could we change the topic summary please? I don't remeber writing it and it's totally not what I was trying to say with the thread. Something like, "The extreme shock and perplexity induced by a very rich person bragging about how they've never read a book" would fit the original intent much better.)
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:19 / 29.04.04
...In fact, checking the date the thread was started I'm damn sure I didn't write that summary.
 
 
Ex
15:26 / 29.04.04
I'm wearing my mediation hat, but I'm carrying the Big Slappy Hand of Doom, alright?

I've held off commenting, because:
- I find it very suprising that Ms Spice hasn't read a book without assistance or nudging. Partly because there is such a range of information and entertainment which are accessed through books. And I too dislike the strands of anti-intellectualism that I find kicking around where people get sneery about reading and writing. I read accounts of male US students who don't have qualifications because reading is gay (both as in 'pathetic' and 'homosexual') and I would rather preserve some vague space for reading as an acceptable and enjoyable pursuit, especially for kids when it could make a lot of difference to their personal life and employment prospects.

- However, I also acknowledge that I like books very much. Professionally, I live off them, and personally, they've saved me. They've made me. It would be a bit solipsistic of me to look at someone else and say "You can't be a person if you haven't read a book" just because I wouldn't be the person I am if I hadn't.
And I remember the eyes of the man I met at a wedding when I told him I didn't really listen to music. And how subhuman I looked to him.
And I know that ultimately, Wilde is on my side, because I can make a lot of money using written communication. Whereas being musically adept or skilled at reading visual culture is something which doesn't get you many qualifications, and for which very few jobs ask.
So if I bitch that the world doesn't understand me, I am taking the piss slightly.

Oh, and also, the Bill Hicks sketch has always ticked me off. I bet I've read more fucking books than him and I doubt I'm done with the waffle waiting yet.

So it would be good to be able to steer through this thorny horny twin dilemma.
Anyone want to come and claim the hat of mediation, or meet with Doom at the end of the Slappy Hand?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:35 / 29.04.04
Oh, and also, the Bill Hicks sketch has always ticked me off. I bet I've read more fucking books than him and I doubt I'm done with the waffle waiting yet.

Yeah, me too--and from where I am, Waffle Waitress is up.
 
 
Baz Auckland
16:15 / 29.04.04
And I remember the eyes of the man I met at a wedding when I told him I didn't really listen to music. And how subhuman I looked to him.

I guess in the same vein, I'll never understand people who don't listen to music... not in a bad way. I can see how they don't, but the idea of not constantly having music on in the background seems awful to me... Like reading, it's something I think people should do, but nothing against them if they don't.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
16:42 / 29.04.04
To me, never opening a book is like never using the bathroom. I mean, fine, fine, whatever, one should live how one likes, but I don't know if it's anything to admit to on telly, and especially not as a point of pride. Did David Beckham stray ? I don't know, don't really care, but perhaps if he did, was he mainly after intellectual stimulation ? What with him being a published author, and all.
 
 
Christoph_Chicken
18:20 / 29.04.04
Quote Flyboy: Well, there's a simple explanation: you are Better than him.

There, that was what you wanted to hear, wasn't it?



Shit, there was no need to be quite so vicious about it. I was only trying to contribute, not to come across as some pretentious twat. Which in itself is an interesting point, that seems to have underpinned much of the conversation.

Let me try and explain myself...

No, I do not think that I am better than my Brother or my family. I love them all for who they are. All I was trying to do was show that not all people find intellectualism interesting, for some it simply holds no attraction. There was and is no outside influence to effect this difference between myself and my brother. Isn't that what the thread was about? (thanks Jub)

I probably should have read my post before submitting it, to avoid any chance of people like Flyboy pedantically misconstruing its intended meaning. Unfortunately, I was rather busy, what with trying to keep on top of my low paid admin job, flirting with the office crumpet and trying to organise tomorrow's drinking bonanza.

Bear, these things get me through the year too...



I mean honestly. "I hold interests in... thought... creativity..."

Because I'm sure your brother has no interests [sic] in thought. I'm sure there's no creativity in the things he watches on DVD or the music he listens to.


I mean honestly, you bothered to pick out that one little spelling mistake, I'm surprised you didn't also stick a QED in your attack for good measure.

I do agree with you there though, I am also sure that there is no creativity in the things he watches on DVD, as watching does tend to be a little passive, if one wants to be picky about it. I'm sure there is some level of second hand stimuli, brain activity provoked by watching eye candy created by others... but watching the likes of Titanic, Independence day and other Hollywood hits isn't that creative in my book. Let alone listening to some of the shit from the charts, which was hardly creative when it was written... or recycled.

The entire train of thought and example all stemmed from the Posh/Becks/pop culture thing... I just neglected to explain that, and the sort of entertainment my darling brother enjoys.


My apologies for not being clearer, and less of a cretin in my original (and this) post.
 
 
Ariadne
18:41 / 29.04.04
Don't stress o_O_o, you didn't sound that way, it just got misread. Intentionally or otherwise.

People find it hard to understand people who are unlike them. It's not a big deal. I find it odd when people don't read, when people don't ride bikes, and when people dislike country music. It doesn't mean I look down on them, just that i think they're odd.

Flyboy, I do understand your point but I also think you're willfully misreading a lot of what people write to suit your own agenda.
 
 
Loomis
19:25 / 29.04.04
I think there's the slightest possibility that you're being a trifle disingenuous there Fly, patting yourself on the back for defending The Common Man against the elitist intellectuals when you clearly place vlaue on intellectual exploits yourself.

I don't know that anyone here is hassling anybody for reading or having read few books. Different strokes for different folks and all that. But someone with lots of time and lots of money who is allegedly proud of having never. ever. read. a. single. book. You'd think she could spare 10 mins to read The Cat in The Hat, or maybe she's been waiting for the movie.

And I'd also lay off Bill Hicks, people. Do you really not see that you're taking his sketch out of context? Or would anyone here seriously choose to be a waffle waitress if they could work somewhere with better pay and better conditions? And rightly or wrongly, that is often achieved through the application of intellectual pursuits.

Some of the objections in this thread smack a little too much of the middle class glamourizing the life of the working class ...
 
 
Ex
19:42 / 29.04.04
I think there's a bit of a slippage between "intellectual pursuits" and "reading stuff", which was what was worrying me; more so, as I tend to do it myself, as I mentioned.
Clearly, it's easy for me to excercise my shiny brane by reading things. But I feel the same way I do when people say "At least Harry Potter gets kids reading..." Part of me thinks "Huzzah!" and then the other part thinks, "Yeah, but reading what?" I mean, is 'reading' good, mind-expanding, end of story, or is it just an ability? It's also easy for me to get credit for my shiny brane by flashing my literacy, in a way that other kinds of intellectual pursuit (visual thinkers, creative types) aren't as often acknowledged.

More examples: I don't watch difficult films, but I do read difficult books. If it was the other way round, I think I would be ticked off at people collapsing intellectualism into 'reading lots'.

The Hicks sketch? There are a lot of things going on in that, I will possibly return to it. But I had no intention of kicking and/or romanticising the paupers; I was mainly remembering the amount of Well Read people (and intellectual people) I know who work in crappy, low-paid service industries. And thinking that reading is no guard against becoming a 'waffle waitress' (whether you think Hicks is charitably acknowledging that working in a waffle bar sucks, or less charitably characterising waffle waitresses as incorrigably stupid), which makes Hicks sound rather smug.
 
 
Loomis
19:50 / 29.04.04
Maybe Hicks's response to "Why are you reading?" would have been clearer had he said, "So I don't end up like someone who would hassle someone about reading."
 
 
Loomis
19:51 / 29.04.04
... of course that is assuming that the waitress's question is delivered in such a way that it is hassling him, which I think is a given in the sketch, and has possibly been taken out of context in this thread ...
 
 
Ex
19:55 / 29.04.04
And I bet Posh Spice has read "Forever" by Judy Blume. Deny it how she may. Every woman my age has read that damn book.

(Actually, is she my age? I think of her being in a parallel dimension, in a way - I hadn't thought of us as having had corresponding girlhoods, until now...)
 
 
The Falcon
23:07 / 29.04.04
Reading is good for you.

Tim Henman doesn't do it either; thus I am better than him at reading, and most likely writing. He is, however, probably better than me at tennis.

I think if more people in the UK read there would be less people suffered 'dyslexia'.

As opposed to the actual condition.

That said, I'd rather all celebrities stopped reading than I face another 'Big Read' billboard with their rubbish choices on it.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:42 / 30.04.04
Here are my guesses for Posh Spice's fave books, at least the one's she'd most enjoy reading, in a parallel universe where she had the spare time. Plus the reviews.

The Celestine Prophecies - " It's am-aaazing. So deep. It changed my life. "

The Bridget Jones Diary - " Christ, I so AM her. Christ. "

Valley Of The Dolls - " Christ, I am so NOT her. Christ. "

High Fidelity - " God, that's so true. Blokes are just so sad, aren't they ? "

American Psycho - " I liked the bits about the clothes, and that. "
 
 
illmatic
06:50 / 30.04.04
Actually, I've just remembered that the ill-read person I mentioned earlier this thread, once asked Victoria Beckham (when she was mere Posh Spice, before The Spice Girls really blew up) for her phone number. What an uncanny blizzard of syncronicity etc.
 
 
illmatic
07:03 / 30.04.04
By the way, it's not David.
 
 
Icicle
10:22 / 30.04.04
I haven't got much to say that hasn't been said on this thread already, but I definetly don't think that you can condemm someone for not having read a book.
I haven't got a t..v and sometimes, I might claim quite proudly that I never watch t.v, which makes me as bad as posh. A lot of the people I hang round with see t.v as a 'lesser' medium, whereas the people posh knows might think books are a 'lesser' medium.
This is all culturally relative and so we can't make an absolute claims about how people must read books.
Even though I'm guilty of it myself I still don't think you can claim that one medium is superior to another, you can be dealing with intelligent ideas just by having a conversation with someone.
 
 
Axolotl
10:32 / 30.04.04
Yeah but Icicle I assume (please feel free to correct me)at some point in your life you have watched TV, though you choose not to at the present. At least you are making an informed choice. The sheer arrogance of just writing off the whole world of the written word without bothering to experience it, and being proud of your wilful ignorance just freaks me out. I'm not saying that not reading makes you an inferior person, but neither is it something to be proud of. Conversely I don't think reading makes you a better person, though it has got to help broaden your mind (though it is not the only way to do so).
 
 
The Puck
10:50 / 30.04.04
snobbery aside this woman has *kids* for chrissakes, will she never want her kids to read a book? or will she not ever read a book to the kids?

its a very irresponable thing to let slip, like micheal owen telling wogan that "seatbelts are for girls"
 
 
gornorft
11:01 / 30.04.04
I don't care.
I'd still fuck her.
 
 
Icicle
11:07 / 30.04.04
yuck! I can't believe you can fancy victoria beckam, she's so freaky looking.

Point taken, I guess you should have at least some experience of a medium before you condemm it, but I bet Victoria has at least started a few books and just found them boring, personally if I'd never even opened a book in my life I'd be fascinated about what'd be like, even if everyone else said they were boring.
 
 
Axolotl
12:05 / 30.04.04
true, I also concur with you on Victoria's grotesque looks. Bleeeuurrgh. She's like some kind of big freak of nature, and yet people seem to think she's attractive. No accounting for taste I suppose.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:35 / 30.04.04
Tchh. Double standards, much? Whatever happened to respecting an individual's right to modify their body to reflect their own personal aesthetic? Would you be attacking Posh in the same way if she had a modification that fitted your limited range of "cool" bod-mods? I don't know.

Having said all that... what the fuck are those things on her chest?
 
 
Axolotl
12:43 / 30.04.04
I completely respect the right of a person to modify their body in to whatever form they desire. Doesn't mean I have to find it attractive.
Especially if you look like Skeletor with two beach balls nailed to his chest ;-)
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:54 / 30.04.04
Yay, if I mention Callista Flockhart we can merge into the 'skinny bitches' thread and we can all go home.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:51 / 30.04.04
Puck: you mean apart from anything else, she's a Bad Mother? Oh no! Won't somebody please think of the children?

I love the way a significant proportion of Barbelith goes all tabloid whenever the 'wrong' kind of female celebrity is mentioned: ooh look, she couldn't satisfy her man! I love the fact that whether Victoria Beckham made the alleged claim with pride has not been confirmed, but nevertheless has become the basis for concerns about her terrible influence on other people's kids as well as her own. I love the way that, whenever someone points out the amount of class-based elitism on Barbelith, they get accused of "romanticising" or "glamourising" the working classes (because it's romantic and glamorous to view "them" as valid human beings like you and me!).

Most of all, I love the fact that not one single person has had anything bad to say about James Ellroy saying almost the same damn thing. Because James Ellroy is coooool.

Loomis, I don't know where my "plac[ing] value on intellectual exploits" comes into this, at all. Yeah, I do. Does that mean I should keep my objections to myself if I think I smell bullshit? News to me.

I'm not fucking misconstruing anything. Which thread are you reading? Is it not the one that includes the post wherein Victoria Beckham's reading habits are speculated upon and mocked not just on because she is common, but also because she is female (because women who are not cool and alternative like Barbelith people like silly chick-lit books, and are into shallow things like clothes so would not understand American Psycho in the right way as subversive and yada yada Matrixcakes)?

If you think there's no elitism in this thread, maybe you missed huge chunks like this:

I am also sure that there is no creativity in the things he watches on DVD, as watching does tend to be a little passive, if one wants to be picky about it. I'm sure there is some level of second hand stimuli, brain activity provoked by watching eye candy created by others... but watching the likes of Titanic, Independence day and other Hollywood hits isn't that creative in my book. Let alone listening to some of the shit from the charts, which was hardly creative when it was written... or recycled.

The entire train of thought and example all stemmed from the Posh/Becks/pop culture thing... I just neglected to explain that, and the sort of entertainment my darling brother enjoys.


Ariadne, how can you read the above, in which o_O_o spells out exactly how it works that he is cleverer than his brother because he has different taste in art/entertainment, and then say "don't stress, nobody thinks you're a cretin!"??? I think he's a cretin. There's no creativity in the music his brother likes, because only music like fucking Tool or whatever o_O_o is into is creative... God it's all so familiar and tired.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:21 / 30.04.04
I have to say that I find the idea of reading as a creative act a bit odd. I mean, watching Titanic is not a creative act. presumably the implication is that watching an arthouse movie is a more creative act. Presumably reading the book equivalent of a Hollywood movie is a more creative act again (a John Grisham?) and reading something clever like, say, the Invisibles is a more creative act again. Watching a Bill Hicks video is more creative than watching a Dennis Leary video, but is by a quirk of fate less creative than reading a book about Bill Hicks, or indeed a book about Dennis Leary.

At the end of all this frantic creativity, though, what is created? I read a fair bit, but I don't think that I have ever tunred the final page to find, say, a coffee table where before was none... am I reading the wrong stuff?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
15:48 / 30.04.04
Victoria Beckham's reading habits are speculated upon and mocked not just because she is common, but also because she is female

Victoria Beckham isn't common, she's posh.

She's also a shameless attention junkie who insists on parading her opinions in public at every available opportunity, so I think in that capacity it's open season on her reading habits, especially seeing as by her own admission she doesn't actually have any. The fact that she's a woman seems a bit beside the point here. The fact that she seems like a bit of an idiot, however, does not.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:57 / 30.04.04
Hmmm.. I don't know - after all, we have not yet pulled the cretinous Mr. Beckham up for not providing an atmosphere of white-hot intellect for his kiddies, despite the very real possibility that he has written more books than he has read, and an apparent eagerness for the public eye to match his lady wife's...

Which is to say that to accuse this thread and all who sail in it of misogyny would indeed be a bit poor, but to suggest that it is the home of some attitudes, most obviously to the utility and relative value of reading but also to women, DVDs and waffle waitresses, that coudl stand a bit of scrutiny seems to me reasonably uncontroversial.

Mind you, I am slightly befuddled by the idea that people who read one book a week consider themselves in any meaningful way "readers", so I'm probably the wrong person to talk to.
 
  

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