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Street Fightin' Man

  
  

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Spatula Clarke
17:51 / 25.02.03
At least once a month, walking into or back from town, some 17-22 year old swaggering gimp with more spots than brain cells who's fuelled purely on testosterone will decide that he's going to try to show just what a big man he is (generally to his pre-pubescent girlfriend) by moseying on up to me and either attempting to shove me into the road or dishing out South Park-style verbal. Once a bloody month. And it doesn't matter how I respond, I always end up feeling pretty non-chuffed with myself. It's just so utterly pointless and only serves to waste five minutes of my life.

It must be something they put in the water in this town.

But then again, maybe not. Is it just towns like this that suffer from these imbeciles, or do 'Lithers in cities or abroad experience this inane behaviour? More importantly, how do you respond to it?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:57 / 25.02.03
Oh, and let's keep this free of macho bullshit, eh? I've had my fill of it for the day. Not that Barbelith is particularly prone to that, but when there are people on the board who are quite happy about using the term 'underclasses' I suppose anything's possible.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
18:04 / 25.02.03
what town?

onyways, ye just glass their fuckin wee jaws right aff.

or say:

'Ho you ya wee fanny, whantus tae rip yer pixels?'

but man, seriously, I understand yer plight. I stay in the Gorbals for fucks sake.

(cept it's snobby noo)

god - why did I have to be first to reply to this thread?

shit. sorry dude. I've not been much help.

look, if they're dangerous chaps, just avoid them. Take a different route. Stay out their way.

If you can gauge their true hardness though (ie. not blade carrying), I'd fuckin threaten the wee cunts.

Or even hit them?
 
 
w1rebaby
18:05 / 25.02.03
Whereabouts do you live?

I've experienced it but only in suburbs, Bromley and Croydon specifically. Didn't seem to get it in the East End and I've never had it in central London. Due to the Bromley/Croydon connection I associate it with boredom, shit clubs and lack of hope.

I'm told by friends it was quite common in Durham, not just to students but anyone who happened to be around.
 
 
Trijhaos
18:14 / 25.02.03
No macho bullshit? Well damn. There goes my whole, "First, kick them in the groin, then smash their faces into the pavement, and then...."

Just walk away. People like that should be ignored. If you can't walk away and they do get physical, I would seriously think about kicking them in the groin. Hard..I mean really hard. So hard that their testicles try to crawl up into their throat.

I really don't know how to deal with something like that. I don't get accosted like that. I have never had to deal with confrontation with anyone in any form since I moved here 10 years ago. I guess I give off some sort of "I'm not worth bothering with" vibe. Either that or people are scared of me. I remember in high school someone told me I scared them because I never talked, I glared all the time, and that wearing all black didn't help matters much.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:19 / 25.02.03
Aw man, I'm sorry you have to go through this Randy - I don't hear much of this sort of thing happening from anyone I know in the States, and nothing like that's ever happened to me. (Though I'm pretty big and that may seem imposing to some, I guess.)

I don't know how you can avoid these guys, but if you can find a way to do it, that seems to be the best thing to do.
 
 
w1rebaby
18:26 / 25.02.03
I can sympathise with

it doesn't matter how I respond, I always end up feeling pretty non-chuffed with myself

There's always something depressing about it. It's like seeing someone slap their kid for crying in the shopping centre, or spit on a beggar, or throw stones at cats for a laugh.
 
 
Babooshka
18:44 / 25.02.03
Arrgh...yeah, it is depressing. Here in Brooklyn NYC it does happen in certain neighborhoods, and since there does tend to be a bit of gang activity it's always a good idea to just walk away as quickly yet as purposefully as possible. Because you never know – that weasely-looking little shit just might be packing heat.

This may seem a strange question, but – how's your posture? Walking with a straight back, a calm (not too rushed but not moseying about either) stride and looking straight ahead may help you get past them without attracting undue attention. Shuffling about and casting one's eyes downwards is usually guaranteed to get them bugging you.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:07 / 25.02.03
Due to the Bromley/Croydon connection I associate it with boredom, shit clubs and lack of hope.

That's my reading of the situation here. Smallish border town, little entertainment made available to anyone under 65 save for going out and getting lashed.
 
 
Potguns
20:08 / 25.02.03
The way I deal with it in Birmingham is always to walk away, as a guy with ginger dreads i'm guarnteed to get some sort of sly comment or confrontation every time I have to travel across town. Iv'e found if I do end up throwing fists I can guarantee i'll meet them again at the most untimley situation. My advice is take solace in the fact that youve avoided bruises, aren't on the life path where individualism isn't something that needs to be challenged physically and that you have better outlets for your urges.

But if you think a fight is unavoidable a similar display of chest beating will often quell the crowd. Acting like a fucking nutter can be surprisingly effective. Remember, in the words of James Brown: "I don't know karate but I know crazy!" Repeat the mantra.
 
 
Bill Posters
20:17 / 25.02.03
Last Saturday night, when I refused to give a total stranger £1.90, he pulled a knife, and rightly or wrongly, I felt I was in serious shit. Hellbent on not backing down (dammit, I can't afford to subsidise these fuckers) I went into an off-license (thank fuck, this happened just outside it) and bought a bottle of beer, and though I didn’t do anything illegal (not even threatening behaviour, I’m not stupid and thankfully nor was this guy), the point is that I got home shaking like a leaf and damn near throwing up. I get soooo strung out and fucked up dealing with shit like that on a regular basis. (No, it's not the first time.) And all I wanted to do was get home after a long day at work.

I think Babooshka's right about posture. There's magick can be done, too, if one believes in that sort of thing. But ta for starting this thread Randy, it's good to get this stuff off one's chest. Anyway, I've been lucky, really, what with one thing and another.

Flyboy? Isn't this the bit where you call me racist?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:34 / 25.02.03
Used to happen to me all the time in Somerset- it's happened a couple in 12 years of living in London. (I have been mugged 3 times, but somehow that never pisses me off as just random aggression, despite the whole "losing stuff" thing.)
 
 
Brigade du jour
21:20 / 25.02.03
It doesn't happen very often to me, probably because I'm quite a big lad, but they don't know that secretly I'm a big wuss who wouldn't know how to fight someone even if I wanted to. But when it does look like happening I just ignore them, or if they insist on monopolising my attention I just try and talk nicely to them, taking their taunts/questions/whatever at face value.

For example, "A fat cunt? Well I'm a bit heavy, but no I'm not a cunt."

I generally they can't be bothered to press the point. It might exacerbate the situation though, so be careful about your tone of voice. Try and sound absolutely genuinely honest. Still though, the ignoring option is always preferable, especially if you can run quite fast.

Like the topic abstract btw, I think it about sums people like that up.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
21:28 / 25.02.03
It's only ever happened to me in elementary and high school. I had no clue how to handle it. My desire to maintain dignity was always stifled by a Christian pacifism and a simple desire not to get hurt.
 
 
Brigade du jour
21:35 / 25.02.03
Just remembered an example of when my second Rule Of Dealing With Dickheads came into play.

Top deck on the 159 bus, just me and two local Streatham kids probably about fifteen years old, sat at the back. One of them called to me and said something I couldn't understand through his parka hood. Turns out he was offering to sell me some weed. I declined in what I meant to be a polite manner but was translated by my slight frustration at not understanding him the first time into what he took to be a superior and dismissive manner.

He accused me of being 'posh' (which for an Essex boy like me is some compliment, but from this kid's lips it was quite the opposite) and I challenged him on the comment, as in "Posh? Me? Don't think so mate." trying hard not to let my accent slip into Damon Albarn pseudo-Cockney in a crass subconscios attempt to ingratiate him.

Anyway, we carried on like this, and the conversation, always coloured by a certain hostility on his part, turned to a sort of discussion on class difference, with myself cast in the role of successful young bourgeois (which I'm not) and with him cast as the poor put-upon street urchin.

To cut a short story shorter, he complained of not being able to escape his economic and social situation because of 'people like me'. By now it was far too late for me to do that whole big-city thing of just facing front and hoping he'd go away, and by now I didn't want to, actually. I wanted to try and give him some hope, but in the least obvious way possible because I know he'd see through it. I don't recall exactly what we said, but at the end of it I reached my stop, and shook the guy's hand, wishing him luck, before I hopped off the bus.

I don't know if that's any help, and to be fair this happened in the afternoon, on a busy road, and I don't think I was really in any physical danger. I mean, if I'd been a hardcase and actually threatened the kid he probably would have run a mile, but I just couldn't stand the idea that I should be despised by someone who knows nothing about me beyond my appearance, and the idea that he felt he could take the piss out of a total stranger for no good reason.

Maybe he learned something as I did, or maybe he didn't, but at least I tried. More to the point, at least I didn't do the big-city thing.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:57 / 25.02.03
I don't think it's my bearing that does it; I'm definitely not a shuffler. It's probably not my size, either, as a friend of mine gets the same kind of attention and is over 6'4".

To be honest, and this is going to sound deeply stupid and get a lot of people here disagreeing with me, I'm not a big fan of just walking away. It's not a pride thing at all - I always feel that ignoring it and going your own way empowers the other guy, in a strange way. If you ignore him then by his own limited understanding of the situation he's won that confrontation, and he's going to have fewer qualms about doing the same to somebody else as a result. It's also kind of difficult to walk off when he's tried to barge you out of the way. I lean towards potguns' 'nutter' solution myself.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
22:15 / 25.02.03
randy:
sorry.
i'm ashamed of myself.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
22:21 / 25.02.03
oh, and bbill posters:

what did you do with the bottle?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:08 / 25.02.03
Fuck, yawn. No need. What I've not said in the thread so far is that I responded by grabbing him by the throat. Not entirely a reflex action, because when I let go he dared me to do it again, so I did. That's why I'm not greatly pleased with meself - I normally just give enough mouth back that they get fed up and walk off. I suggested to the girl he was with that she take him away (very much faux bravado on my part), which was when he started backing down...

Like I say, I'm uncomfortable with the way I reacted - afterwards, I I started to realise that I'd grabbed him a lot harder than I 'needed' to - but there's a bit of me that's secretly convinced that trying to give him a scare was the right thing to do - he was obviously just out for a fight, and that confrontation *might* make him think twice in future. Equally, it might just make him more likely to start agro with other people, as a kind of saving face exercise. Fuck knows. As justifications go, it's a pretty poor one.

So you can delete that right out if you want. I'm ashamed of myself - there was no point to any of it and there was was absolutely no need for me to react physically. You can all tear me to shreds now.
 
 
w1rebaby
23:35 / 25.02.03
There's nothing intrinsically bad about reacting physically. I don't think you've got anything to be ashamed of.

I think the important thing is to give people an opportunity to back down but retain face... always leave a way out that they can take without looking like a pussy. Very few people are actually looking just for a physical fight. It's a dominance thing. If they feel like they've got what they want out of the situation they go.
 
 
Bill Posters
23:42 / 25.02.03
what did you do with the bottle?

Nothing whatsoever. I just carried it home and drank it. Doing anything else would be illegal - threatening behaviour, I believe they call it. The funny thing was, the guy stopped hassling me when he saw I had it. I suppose he respected the fact I'd had a long day and wanted to get home and sink a cold beer. Maybe he was a decent guy after all, who knows?
 
 
The Falcon
04:11 / 26.02.03
You can walk away whilst clearly giving 'the bird'.

It's normally pretty apparent when someone's going to hit you, too. I've never started a fight.
 
 
aus
04:49 / 26.02.03
I don't hear much of this sort of thing happening from anyone I know in the States

This is something like what I was going to say. I don't think this happens as much here, possibly because not many people are willing to risk provoking a gun fight. I know one guy who carries a handgun with him constantly. He's probably the craziest guy I know, and I'd estimate him big and tough enough without a handgun. Maybe this blows the "act crazy" theory out of the water, or maybe it's taking it to another level.
 
 
illmatic
07:31 / 26.02.03
I don't think grabbing the guy, hard or otherwise, is anything to feel ashamed of Randy. Sorry you had to be confronted with so many dickheads, that's all.

My martial arts teacher was talking about this sort of situation a few weeks ago - the prelimary strike we've been taught (a very hard open palm blow) can be used as a "warning shot" to the chest or wherever. If you make physical contact with someone and they see you're not backing down and in fact, will escalate things, most people will back off. Quite a good tatic, I think. Apparently bouncers use this a lot to calm people down. If you do take a confrontational approach showing honest aggression rather than fear is the way to go, I think. Doesn't get you past the situation when he's standing outside the offy the next week with a load of his monkey mates, though.
 
 
rizla mission
15:01 / 26.02.03
This kind of crap used to happen to me sometimes in Wales. If it was on the street or something, I'd ignore it, walk on and not feel at all bad.

On numerous occasions I attracted unwelcome attention in pubs for being weird, but thankfully I was accompanied on these occasions by a group of slightly more macho friends, so nothing occured beyond a lot of staring and muttering and so on. But there were definitely places we didn't go to (still don't) cos we knew there were people there who'd want to hurt us as part of some absurd vengence deal or something..

Oddly perhaps, absolutely nothing like this has happened to me so far in Leicester, perhaps because a)I tend to walk extremely quickly playing my walkman extremely loudly, thus making me a poor target for aggro or b)another vote for "boredom, shit clubs and lack of hope" in reference to SouthWest Wales.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
15:53 / 26.02.03
I haven't been in this situation in a long time, but I remember when NYC was a baaad town and for the most part confrontations on the street were not meaningful. It was when you were on the subway or in some hallway -- someplace with limited egress -- that you had to actually be afraid, because that person is assaulting you with some specific plan in mind. And of course the gang situation mentioned (though I don't think NYC ever had the Crips/Bloods thing that bad, mostly 'gangs' of five or six kids). Learn to shrug off verbal abuse and deal harshly with physical abuse -- a good shot to the ribs will let them know you're not a mark without causing anyone too much embarrassment. Personally, I'd avoid showy stuff like grabbing people by the throat; you're asking them to prove something. Directing your advice to his girlfriend was pretty good -- never would've occured to me, but it's pretty good. Going into a store is good in some random situation (Bill, he was probably getting jumpy about witnesses), but if this happens regularly you'll get a reputation as a pussy.

Am I being macho? Sorry.
 
 
Cosmicjamas
20:50 / 26.02.03
I used to live in the part of Finsbury Park that was known as the "red light district". Not only did'ja get hassle from guys "looking for business" but from everyone in general. So. I purchased, or acquired, what I referred to as the Tubercular Overcoat - long, grey, looked like it had a multitude of inhabitants - and walked with a German Shepherd dog. Hassle vanished - funny that!!
 
 
Brigade du jour
20:51 / 26.02.03
Rizla, whereabouts in Wales are you from? 'Cos if it's Swansea, you were lucky to get out of there alive. After all, the only nice bit is the Mumbles, until it turned out Catherine Zeta Jones is from there.

Anyway, I'd just like to second (or third, or however many) the theory about carrying yourself in what I might call a 'take-no-shit' manner. It's not something you can teach, it's kind of like acting I guess. But it seems to work. Or maybe wearing a benign and saintly expression on your face like Jesus.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:29 / 26.02.03
The one problem with the 'take-no-shit' walk is that it's a fine line between that and the 'looking-for-trouble' walk.
 
 
Brigade du jour
22:33 / 26.02.03
Certainly is a fine line. Takes a fair bit of practice. But if you try and anticipate every passer-by's reaction to every gesture you make you're going to go nuts before you even get to wherever you're going.

That didn't help much did it? May I suggest Capoeira?
 
 
Rev. Orr
22:46 / 26.02.03
I'd definately have to second the difficulties with the 'take-no-shit' walk. It's not something I do consciously - more the side effect of being a big fat bastard and an ex-bouncer - and 99% of the time it means I get ignored or left alone. Apparently my locale is one of the top five Home Office hotspots for street crime and since I moved here I've had no problems. Trouble is, when trouble does head your way, in my experience, it's more serious if you give off that vibe. I rarely get bothered by anyone, but I have been stabbed twice (both times when trying to defuse the situation rather than let the testosterone fly).

My problem is that having spent years getting to the point where I am in control of my own aggression I find it very hard to cope with being on the receiving end afterwards. I stopped going to clubs for years because I got fed up with always being the one that the drunk moron decided to pick the fight with. Now, after an encounter it can take days for the shakes and self-doubt to go away. All I can say is that however bad you feel after a 'near' fight you feel a hell of a lot worse if you let rip and do someone some serious damage. Ignoring the legal angle, however justified or even necessary violence is and however you feel about instinctive 'macho' responses, you'll fuck yourself up more by releasing the inner neanderthal.

Sorry you had to put up with this shit but, believe me or not, you did end up in the least bad scenario.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
01:16 / 27.02.03
Hm. Didn't read the whole thread. But the other day I was walking through town to get my last bus home = pretty well tired and just wanting to get back and eat a chocolate bar and then go to bed.

Anyhow, there's a group of lads in front of me, and I'm just walking past them with my hands in my pockets. Anyway, I walk between two of them, and one of them is sitting on a bench. I carry on walking, not really taking much notice - and then I realise that the guy who was sitting on the bench is coming toward me. In fact, by the time I realise he is right next to me, and in fact hitting me, all I can do is start to say "hey" (as in in "hey, what do you think you're doing") and my hands are still in my pockets. Fair.

Anyway, he then proceeds to ask me for all my money, and I tell him that I don't have any. Well, my bus fair, but I'm not missing my last bus home. And a chocolate bar, but he's not having that. Nor does he know it resides in my pocket! Ha! Anyway, I'm slightly confused, and luckily one of his mates comes over after having noticed what's going on and pulls him off me. So I just walk off and catch my bus, swollen lip and all.

Though as I walked off I did hear - not even sure who (but for one of his mates to say it would seem odd, as they were kindly enough to stop their idiot friend) - but I recollect hearing "proper bombed him". Which annoyed me, because I really wanted to turn around and tell them, really, it didn't hurt.. and well.. i've probably hit myself harder.

It pissed me off for a while really. There was nothing I could really do, any threat to this guy and I'd have three guys to deal with... so I just felt a bit silly really. Pah.

Anyway, glad to get that off me chest. I was gonna start a thread about it actually...
 
 
Unravelling
14:44 / 28.02.03
Macho aggression is based on the willingness to hurt someone first, even if they do have hands in pockets. All the lads prove on a friday night is, who's the most ruthless, nasty, willing to strike first etc. That's what true aggression is; the guy who 'loses' a fight is so often saying, 'What did you do that for?' as the second punch comes in - 'Cos the first one came out of the blue, or certainly without any good reason. Lager Lout knows why he did it - he did it to see the stupid look on your face when the lovely red blood came shooting out of your stupid broken nose. Ha Ha Ha. If you're not one of those people who gets a big thrill out of smacking people just to see them bleed, hear them cry, or whatever, then good for you.

I come from SE Wales and I can (and have) walked through town on friday/saturday night in drag or worse, and no-one says squat. 'Bad ass' areas of Bristol, London, the same. I have an invisible force field against street violence. I'm not huge or scary, but no-one is allowed to interrupt me when I'm walking.
 
 
Jub
14:53 / 02.03.03
Last night I was in a fight. I say in a fight, but that's not quite true: someone hit me repeatedly then they ran away.

I wanted to go away for a few days with someone and booked a place in Oxford. I've just got back, and remembered this thread, and thought it odd, as this stuff stopped happening to me when I was about 16-17, and like unravelling I seem to be able to not attract this sort of agro.

Was very drunk so can't really remember what happened exactly. I remember going to this awfully cheesy nightclub but everyone was quite friendly and it was okay. By the burger vans, everyone too was okay, and it was quite a nice change from the colder waiting around that one has to do by TCR to get the nightbus home.

Anyway - we decided to walk back to the hotel as it was only a 10 minute walk out of town. One minute we were chatting away, and the next, these two girls had "started" on my friend. Now she's only little and I feel very protective of her. So I stood in front of her and told them to calm down. The brunette then started hitting me in the face.

For a moment the ridiculousness of the situation was overwhelming; getting smacked in the face by a girl (with a ring on it transpired this morning). Anyway she pulled my hat off which I wasn't to impressed by, and by the time I'd gathered my wits (which I'd been trying to destroy throught the night with copious amounts of booze) she'd managed to hit me a good few times, fat lip etc. Meanwhile my friend was being attacked by the blonde girl, and she too was shocked enough not to reacte really.

In the end I held this girl by the collar at arm's length and we had somehow found ourselves in the middle of the street. Just as I realise she can't reach to hit me anymore, her blonde friend comes storming over saying "you hit girls, you hit girls!" and in fairness to the brunette she said that I hadn't. Which is really strange in hindsight. Then they ran away and I consoled my friend who was visibly shaken, not having had this happen to her much before.

Whilst (as the thread started) I used to have revenge fantasies for ages after being in a brawl like this, this episode left me strangely calm and just curious what those silly girls were thinking.

Like Suedehead's story above, I was a bit annoyed that it happened obviously but it didn't really bother me the way it had done in the past. Maybe it's cos a girl had hit me that it didn't hurt too much that accounted for it, or maybe it was the added embarrassment of a girl hitting me like that, and the justification in not fighting back redoubled as it was a girl and that's not the done thing by all accounts. I hope they are as miffed about me about the incident and will try to take steps to modify their behaviour in the future, but sadly I don't think that this'll be anytime soon.

Dickheads indeed.
 
 
rizla mission
15:03 / 02.03.03
I have an invisible force field against street violence. I'm not huge or scary, but no-one is allowed to interrupt me when I'm walking.

Yeah, that's what I do I think.
 
  

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