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Mage: The Ascension and other RPGs

 
  

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jeff
22:06 / 05.05.03
Sorry for resurrecting an ancient thread, but they've just released The Infinite Tapestry sourcebook, and it is indeed juicy. If this means nothing to you, then I need not elaborate.
 
 
Salamander
03:47 / 06.05.03
The Mage tatot deck is double plus good on the art work, but other than that it's like most others. As far as role playing an Akashic brother, I think crouching tiger hidden dragon is all a new mage player needs to know. My intrest in magick actually kept me away from mage for quite a wwhile, then I got to the point where real was just a word. I like the fiction better than the game though, I haven't played an RPG that wasn't computer based in a long time. to busy with the scramble of survival to play such long involved games depending on the participation of several others. Oddly enough though quantum, it had a big influence on not just my theories on practicle magick, but how I look at casting a spell on the fly, off the top of my head and totally impromptu. I'm better at empty handed magick now thanks to mage.
 
 
Salamander
03:54 / 06.05.03
oh and I always thought lord of illusions illustrated the nephandi excellantly
 
 
Quantum
08:05 / 06.05.03
I just bought the Infinite Tapestry- doooooood, it's nifty, and finally provides some meat for the High Umbra, the Astral Plane.

HN- it does provide an excellent structure to magick, and definitely helps with visualisation.

Also, I've been thinking about the validity of roleplaying as a magical act, and suddenly realised that it's a narrative hypersigil composed by the participants. The main difference is it's spoken (in the main) instead of written.
 
 
FatherDog
13:31 / 06.05.03
"The main difference is it's spoken (in the main) instead of written."

And for those who do much of their roleplaying online, in chat rooms or via e-mail, there's not even that difference.
 
 
Salamander
20:10 / 06.05.03
Not just with visualization, but a stick just of the ground can make just as good a wand, using the enviroment for objects, that sort of thing.
 
 
jeff
21:21 / 06.05.03
So, who do you reckon the Rogue Council are?

My best guess far is that it's a resurgence of the Batini.

1. They were crucial in the formation of the 1st council of nine.
2. They would be the only people able to mask their origins that I can think of (Advanced Occultation in Lost Paths).
3. In the Infinite Tapestry, it refers to the Technocratic media hub "Control", which communicated to its operatives via nearby technology, similar to Keel's Mothman Prophecies. So, an agency skilled in communicating through ANY media, not just "technology", would place great emphasis on the Correspondence sphere. Which they do.

In terms of the Infinite Tapestry, it is better laid out and far less confusing than Spirit Ways. Which is nice. Havent waded through too much of it yet, but I appreciate that they've made an effort to have the Umbra more freeform and dynamic than in previous incarnations.

On the subject of other worlds, how does this particular concept relate to your practice of Magic(k?)?
 
 
Quantum
13:32 / 07.05.03
I reckon you might be right about the Batini, given their love of the Technocracy (ROFL). On the other hand, how likely are they to care about the rest of the traditions? I imagine the occulted batini laughing their invisible asses off at the collapse of Horizon etc.

If I include the Rogue Council in my game they will be a cross tradition/craft/convention group involving John Courage, united by a masterplan to change the face of the world.

Hermes- yeah, I like the view on magical foci Mage uses, especially the dependance on them at the beginning and then their subsequent discarding as the mage becomes more enlightened. A master can use the idea of a stick as a magic wand

#48- I think of the otherworlds as the realm of imagination. So when I read Promethea I nearly peed my pants Also paralell worlds, heaven and hell etc. all come under the catchall 'otherworldly', the realms excluded from everyday reality. What Castaneda calls Non-Ordinary Reality.
I haven't had a chance to fully devour infinite tapestry, but Spirit Ways was too dreamspeaker oriented. Great for playing a shaman (and for reference!)in the Middle Umbra but totally inapplicable for Hermetics etc. who stay in the High Umbra. Inf Tap seems to be wider ranging, although personally I ignore the Avatar Storm and the whole Red Star thing, I'll devise my own apocalypse thank you very much.
 
 
C.Elseware
22:40 / 07.05.03
Bugger. I've been thinking about RPG's as hypersigils quite a bit lately. I recently had a bit of a nasty emotional/spiritual run in with a book (the golden barge by Michael Moorcock. don't read it unless you're pretty grounded and have some time to process it (or have no imagination, that'd be fine too)).

Either way I ended up playing out the emotions onto my last RPG character (Quantum's mage game as it happens) and then running the story on to see how the character in the story recorvered, and then applying that back to myself. Worked pretty damn well. My parents would have a fit, they pride 'emselve on being iconoclastic and all.

So afterwards, somewhat inspired, I picked up on studying tarot and cabbalah again after a gap of years. I have been getting many many flashbacks to the roleplay game I played for years, "Amber" based on the books of Roger Zelazny. In this game you all play princes of the untimate reality (amber). At the centre of amber is the pattern. At the far end of everything is the logrus and the abyss which is chaos where the pattern is the force for order. These to primal thingys generate reflections between them and interference patterns, each a shadow of amber (and/or) the courts of chaos.

A prince(ss) of amber can travel the worlds freely, just picking the aspects they wish to change. The further from the pattern and logrus they get, the weaker the realities and the greater their power. They (and therefore the players) are only limited by their own imagination and only really challenged by their few peers.

However, in the actual practice of the game most players never reach anything of the potential, mostly make silly in jokes and petty alliances or rather than do something truely amazing just strive for the next skill level in some technique to squeeze something out of a rule the GM feels like ignoring anyway. The rest don't show up due to hangovers.

So it's pretty much a model for real magicians then.
 
 
Salamander
23:33 / 07.05.03
So what would it take to get a mage game started on 'lith? Anyone want to try this?
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
06:11 / 08.05.03
If you are going to play that is in the creation.

Too bad I'm too newbie. Actually would anyone rather play Unknown Armies. Is it posible too teach roleplaying games over the net?
 
 
Quantum
09:41 / 08.05.03
I warn you now, it's very text heavy.

I'd be happy to run a minigame, using simplified Mage rules (thus teachable on the net) set in a dark gritty unknown armies world- it would take a while to play though.
Or I'd be happy to play, that would rule- anyone else want to volunteer to run?
 
 
Quantum
09:48 / 08.05.03
Nietzsch- newbist don't be silly, let's assume a player baseline of no knowledge of the system, some rpg experience/writing/acting, a strong imagination and a brain. Then most people here can play.
I'm happy to produce an extremely simple system and post it on here, anyone got any good suggestions as alternatives to dice?
 
 
cusm
17:30 / 08.05.03
Had a look at Nobilis, Quantum? Not only will it utterly eat your head, but it uses a nice diceless system that works well for net games.

I'm in for the fun btw, however it ends up running
 
 
jeff
18:38 / 08.05.03
Count me in on this one.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
21:58 / 08.05.03
I'm in then.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
22:00 / 08.05.03
Does anyone want to make the role-playing game explicitly magical by using it as a hypersigil? We could work towards a group goal or work towards individual goals.
 
 
C.Elseware
02:06 / 09.05.03
I'd be interested in doing something with a spooky tint, rather than just an online game. It should ideally use a system which is fairly narrative. Like (within reason) you should be able to describe what you do, and much of the effect. Especially the effect as pertains to your character in the game. Something which does not require a GM to arbitrate too much, if at all.

ps. I have Noblis and will foist it forcibly on quantum.next time I see him.
 
 
Salamander
03:07 / 09.05.03
I'm in quantum, just post relevant info and I'll play.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
04:35 / 09.05.03
I'd be interested, but are we sure Barbelith is the right place for it? Maybe we shouldn't hog bandwidth with something so open-ended, potentially voluminous, and, really, of interest to only a teeny handful of members on a site that costs Tom money. Maybe have the round-up here and run it at some corporate message board somewhere.

Maybe an abandoned Google News thread. I've been wanting to hijack one of those for years.
 
 
C.Elseware
10:05 / 09.05.03
i have mighty webmaster resources and mad cgi/php/database skilz. What do you need?
 
 
Quantum
10:42 / 09.05.03
Right, we're on then. Elseware, you are nominated Tech dude and can arrange a virtual place for us to do this stuff, yes? Ta (and gimme Nobilis, it's so pretty!)
I'll run if nobody else will, but I'd like to play instead if possible.

Like Mage, the players will effectively be assistant storytellers, ideally we'll all be working toward the same aim but let's make it explicit. We want to create a narrative hypersigil about a small group of weird dudes with magic powers, with an agenda- I think the characters should 1)already know each other and work as a team (none of this 'you walk into a tavern and meet some player character types') 2) not be hunted by NPCs or on the run (a reactive game is more work for the GM and not as creative) and 3) have a common goal they are pursuing, which can reflect the purpose of our narrative hypersigil.

Dudes, this will simultaneously rock and roll.... thanks in advance to all involved for being involved, I'm taking a moment to love the lith.
 
 
C.Elseware
12:00 / 09.05.03
I've got a couple of ideas. One would be to set up a wiki with nodes of Chapter1, Chapter2 etc. This would allow some very interesting ideas. Such as you write what happens and the GM edits it. You can only describe what your character does, and maybe NPC's. You can ALSO go and add things in future chapters to "encounter" later and revise history.

This is a very odd idea, but what do you think?
 
 
Quantum
13:32 / 09.05.03
Flexible consensual reality- I like it! That sounds great, we could set up some protocols (don't edit other character's dialogue for example) to keep it making sense, and the ST should have webmaster type control to reflect the primacy of reality (eg you scry into the future, the GM unlocks a future chapter for a while so you can read what is planned. Of course the GM is likely to then change it completely after you've looked...)

And then when it's finished we will have a book!
 
 
Salamander
13:37 / 09.05.03
sounds good, should we use the revised charecter sheet in pdf of the white wolf site, or do y'all care that much.
 
 
C.Elseware
13:44 / 09.05.03
http://www.absolution-online.com/hypersigil/wiki.cgi

Excuse the rather bizarre location, I happen to own the domain, and I'd rahter not have this running off of my work systems.

I'll add a pretty stylesheet later to make it look all nice.

I've kicked it off, I'll leave it open to people joining for the time being. Please feel free to add/modify the "rules", thus making it more of the group.

Apologies for the odd cheesy cabalistic references in the wiki config. I'm trying to learn cabballah at the moment, so I need to use the concepts in stuff what I do.
 
 
cusm
14:11 / 09.05.03
I think the characters should 1)already know each other

As in, you've all been chatting with one another for months on an underground forum, but have never met face to face? If we're going to make it a hypersigle, might as well do it right, right? The closer you can tie your character into your own experience, the more powerful the magick will be for you.

Yea, lets do this thing. Wiki is a great idea, we can keep it more narrative than game that way, and Quantum can play too as he won't have to be chief storyteller. Each of the participants will have opportunity to add to the overall narrative of the story, so the burdeons of running can be shared as needed.

(mod hat) This project should get its own thread, either here or in the creation is approproate, as discussion will involve both story and meta work on the hypersigel. So, this thread can resume its focus on the Mage and similar RPGs and associated magickal discussions. (/mod hat)
 
 
Salamander
17:45 / 05.02.05
Attention: All who where involved in this.
Soon I will be writing again on this Hypersigil. Any who where involved, I'd like to invite you to return to this project, which, for me at least, has proved pretty powerful. I hope to see you all return, thanks.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
20:19 / 05.02.05
Haven't really fully read all of this thread, I just thought I'd speak up, since I'm the biggest Mage geek I know (owning all the books, save Bygone Bestiary and Red Sign). I've been playing Mage for years, and have used it to try out just about every different paradigm idea that came into my head (from macroscopic stage magicians treating reality as an audience to biology grad students who spent 5 years with an Andean tribe learning their Science).

The interesting thing to note with Mage in regards to post-modernism is that the very idea of the Spheres has a certain post-modern/chaos magic feel to them. Look at DA: Mage, every Fellowship has their own Pillars for working magic. But the Council essentially organized the grand unification theory of magic, drawing all the disparate styles into a single set of 9, forever pursuing the theoretical 10th that would lead to Ascension. The game is heavily based on hermetic principles of the power of the Will, of a grand design to the universe (albeit that design is one where the architect is humanity), and on a path that will eventually lead to trasnceding to a higher state.

I think a good deal of the way I think about the occult was shaped by Mage, simply becuase it makes ideas like consensual reality, theurgy, hermeticism, and technomagic approachable concepts rather than complicated abstracts.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that Mage games ran one of two ways: Absolutly fucking mindblowingly good, or "slaughter-the-ST-and-all-his-family" bad. Mage was a game where the players and the ST either "got it", or they didn't. If they DID understand the game, it went really really well becuase everyone came up with intricate paradigms and examples of how their powers functioned ("Holding my ruby amulet high, I invoke Gabriel, Archangel of Fire, through the seal inscribed within the gem, bending his fury to my will and unleashing him upon the Men in Black!"). If it didn't, it became just another version of Dungeons & Dragons ("I cast a Forces 3/Prime 2 fireball at them while holding my Forces focus which is ummm...a ruby amulet").

I think the best Mage game I played in was a Laws of Ascension LARP through the Toronto Camarilla. The game was wonderfully run, and everyone put a lot of thought into their characters. We'd have times when, in a lull in the action, we'd be sitting around on couches arguing paradigm. We were encouraged to keep character diaries for the evolutions of our paradigms (or at least the STs thought it was really cool when we did), and to really use our paradigms as a lens to see the world.

The biggest magical benefit I've found from Mage is what I call "masking", dunno what other people call it (I think this is what some folks call a "fiction suit"), but its sort of a cross between making a servitor and making a soul jar. I put a portion of myself into the character (this works far better in Mage than anywhere else I've found), and the character becomes a facet of how I see magic, or how I COULD see magic. An exercise in occult lore and occult understanding, a reason to do research, and a reason to create new ideas. I once wrote a 4000+ word paper that was designed as a fragment of my Son of Ether's thesis on fusing the Science of the remote Andean tribe that trained him with modern technology and materials. It's really trippy.
 
 
Digital Hermes
01:45 / 10.02.05
Though most of this thread has focused on MAGE, and it's assorted cousins, I've only seen one mention of NOBILIS.

Which is too bad, because I've just got the book, and have been trying to read though it, with some trouble. I find myself loving the concept (the players are all demigods), but find the layout of the rules and description of the setting to be actively working against my understanding of both the game and it's whole background. My trouble sits with the fact that on every page there is an example or mini-narrative of the setting, and all this colour and detail means I'm constantly confused with concepts that haven't been described yet. Normally I'm quick enough to catch on, but just as I learn one term, four more are weilded that I have no tools to understand.

Sorry for the threadrot, since this has gone pretty much strictly MAGE so far, but I wasn't sure if I should just start a new thread since this one kind of covers the topic.
 
  

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