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Our Present Situation...aka We're all gonna die

 
  

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:26 / 13.02.03
Now terrorism doesn't faze me at all... but when Haus starts getting hugglesome... then I worry.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:38 / 13.02.03
We're like crabs in a pot, I tell you.

Bill: I would agree that it's important to maintain a balance that takes in awareness of the fact that Londoners and New Yorkers are relatively less likely to suffer from terrorism in the coming months than inhabitants of Baghdad or the Gaza Strip. However, I think it's equally important to remember the principle that attacking a population in retaliation for acts committed in its name by a nation state construct is just fucked-up thinking, whoever is doing it.

A couple more points:

1) You seem to be implying that the average str8 white middle-class male citizen of the USA is more privileged again than their equivalent in, say, the UK. Evidence?

2) Only (ex-)members of Public Enemy or NWA are allowed to spell America 'Amerikkka' and not look stupid.

3) Going by yr recent posting form, I prescribe a return to drinking and smoking.

(Although I think the "always this patronising" comment was unnecessary as well, Sfd...)
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:30 / 13.02.03
OK. Let's get this str8.

Haus is being huggly and Flyboy, placatory.

I want a return to normal service at once. Y'hear?

Bill, just one qu. are people not allowed to be scared of dying and to talk about those feelings openly? That smacks of 'stiff upper lip' bollocks to me. And is this fear of dying/openness about it exclusive to being able to recognise a level of privelige?

And you do sound somewhat in need of cuddles. So i'm sending some. whether you want 'em or not.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:36 / 13.02.03
ok, two questions. So kill me.
 
 
Badbh Catha
14:50 / 13.02.03
I want a return to normal service at once. Y'hear? – bip

Nah – I'm all for Haus & Flyboy keeping the peeps on their toes and acting counter to "stereotype".

Keep it up, fellows!
 
 
Bill Posters
14:54 / 13.02.03
Is that self-indulgence?

It certainly is. These people should stop whining and adapt.

(Oh yeah, and I do have a gasmask, an, erm, 'recreational' one. I've never really considered carrying it around, though: I suspect that if I ever actually put the thing on, gas attack or no, those around would lynch me for my smugness.)



Actually I have made my own gas mask with a small PringleTM tin and some odour eaters. Full instructions can be found here.

Incidentally, are you quite alright, Bill? This realer-than-thou rantiness seems rather unlike you...

Thanks doctor, I'm fine, just not smoking or boozing and on the wrong end of a nasty deadline, so it's mainly sleep and nicotine dep. (It is also though a relflection of the fact that I have been on the left long enough to get bitterly disillusioned with it. Just a few years ago I thought peacefully attending demos - and risking getting beaten up or fitted up - would get the world somewhere. Now it's seeming worse than ever. Moreover, most of my time as a leftie has been spent dealing with the displaced anger of certain other lefties. Okay, my fault for being naive, but it still pisses me off.)

I think accusing the Guy on the Street of hegemony is ... what? Paradoxical. It's not the Guy's fault any more than 9/11 was the fault of the Fella in Baghdad... or Kabul or wherever.

I am not part of the solution, Colonel, and therefore I am part of the problem. It's that simple.

Dead Flyboy sez: You seem to be implying that the average str8 white middle-class male citizen of the USA is more privileged again than their equivalent in, say, the UK. Evidence?

I meant they are more hated - that wasn't meant to pertain to a real (as opposed to symbolic) privilage differential betwixt, say, me, a white het male posho, and a Harvard frat boy. (Hmm... not sure how one would measure privilage anyway.)

BIP: Bill, just one qu. are people not allowed to be scared of dying and to talk about those feelings openly? That smacks of 'stiff upper lip' bollocks to me. And is this fear of dying/openness about it exclusive to being able to recognise a level of privelige?

I never said anyone had no right to freedom of expression, merely that in the greater cosmic scheme of things, this thread is twisted and wrong. And I think we all know it, rilly.

And you do sound somewhat in need of cuddles. So i'm sending some. whether you want 'em or not.

:-) Thank you, but while I receive them I will be thinking of all the lil' Ayrab children who can't huggle each other because their arms have been blown off.

Oh, one more thing, Fly sez:

2) Only (ex-)members of Public Enemy or NWA are allowed to spell America 'Amerikkka' and not look stupid.

Point taken, henceforth it'll be Land of the Freaks, Home of the Slaves. :P
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:11 / 13.02.03
I never said anyone had no right to freedom of expression, merely that in the greater cosmic scheme of things, this thread is twisted and wrong. And I think we all know it, rilly.

Bullshit. There's nothing on this thread that suggests that people think 'our' (while we're homogenising western cultures, we do represent a particularly priveliged one. do working-class people 'get' to be more scared? ) fears are more important, more significant. Reading between the lines, I'd say the opposite is true.

This is a thread started to provide space for people to respond and to talk about their fears. And so far, there's alot of personal stuff, perhaps because many of us have talked about our fears for the world at large in other threads/other spaces. So this one, partly because of the initial post, has been on a personal level. Fears of dying. Being worried about friends and family.

This *does not* equate to not giving a shit, as you seem to be saying.

Who gave you the moral high ground, anyway? Self-abnegation isn't any more constructive than the responses here that you're blasting.

What the fuck does bleating about being priviliged on a message board do to help these people you're so concerned about?

Thank you, but while I receive them I will be thinking of all the lil' Ayrab children who can't huggle each other because their arms have been blown

Whereas I shall be thinking only of you, dear. Yep, that's right.

Oh, and I understand and sympathize with your frustrations regarding leftist activism.

You know, you actually *might* not be the only person around here who's been involved in stuff like that.

Which is not to say that I think you're generally patronising, but there's a touch of 'leftier than thou' here that for me brings to mind dangerous echoes of dead-ended SWSS debates. And isn't especially condusive to the kind of global/self/political awareness you seem to be so het up about.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:28 / 13.02.03
That's it. I am now officially on a mission to huggle all the limbless children of this world. And they won't be able to stop me. or run away.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ahem. Sorry. Anyway.

Personally, I'm not keen on dying, but I'm aware that my chances of being killed by terrorists is, if you tot up the population of London and the amount of time they spend in the centre and divide by likely casualties, probably about as great as my chance of being beaten to death by one of you lot. That's unless the bad guys get their hands on real bad mojo, in which case all bets are off.

And I do take Bill's point that we're much less at risk, in fact, than lots of other countries because we have a big police force and army and border controls and intelligence services and actually a whole mess of mechanisms that make it a lot harder to pull of a complex plot to kill lots of people, and the more people the attempt is trying to kill, the more complex it is likely to be and thus the more likely to be detected. However, there are bound to be things going bang, and I just hope I'm not around when they do go bang.

But that's no reason not to huggle everyone. We're all scared of dying, surely? That's what *makes* us yellow-bellied decadents...

On the bright side, I figure the safest place to be on Saturday will be Hyde Park...

The one place you can be assured of being pretty safe from Metal Gear Solid Freestyle antics is at an anti-war rally. For starters, lots of police. Furthermore, why exactly would any terrorist want to blow up a random sampling of the Muslim League, the yoghurt-knitting social conscience brigade and Tony Benn? You try getting served at the local Working Mojaheddin's Club after that.
 
 
Bill Posters
15:32 / 13.02.03
Bip, dearest

Who gave you the moral high ground, anyway? Self-abnegation isn't any more constructive than the responses here that you're blasting.

My point is that there is no moral highground. (I'm not getting into he realms of pomo cultural geography, but that could be discussed in the Head Shop at some later point.)

What the fuck does bleating about being priviliged on a message board do to help these people you're so concerned about?

Nothing. "There's nothing to be done."
 
 
Sax
15:36 / 13.02.03
I take it I'm the only one who's actually gone and joined the Army, then? They said I could be an officer because I have a good job and stuff...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:47 / 13.02.03
Bill, dearheart.

I think you might be being a 'mite' blinkered is over the point that 'we' in the UK/US can be scared of a relatively (in comparison to say, Iraq, Kuwait ) remote/containable threat whilst being aware that things are *alot* worse elsewhere. And always have been, pretty much.

I think what I'm getting annoyed by, and describing as 'leftier than thou' is that I get a sense with your posts that you take this thread as evidence that you're the only one who's figured that out.

And that some of us may be trying to do things to effect these events, ignoring the question of whether our action will actually make any difference, and just trying anyway. If you're not part of the solution, as you say. There are many ways of being part of the solution....

(Which is my personal response to bagloads of Leftist disillusionment. Bet mine's bigger than yours! I campaigned for the Labour Party in 97. )

That doesn't prevent many of us worrying about the probability of our own deaths, which has probably increased slightly in recent weeks.

And perhaps I picked up a touch of (moral) high ground in comments like this one:

I never said anyone had no right to freedom of expression, merely that in the greater cosmic scheme of things, this thread is twisted and wrong.

Is expressing our personal fears any more self-indulgent than self-flagellating over one's priveliged position? Both require priviliged space/energy/time to unfold...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:48 / 13.02.03
But actually, before you say it, there are bigger things to talk about than this, so I'll leave it there.
 
 
Ganesh
16:40 / 13.02.03
Umm... confining one's existential terror to those situations when one's own life is in danger (thus enabling one to uncurl sufficiently to get out of bed in the morning) is stopping whining and adapting.

Have a fag. And some booze. Please?
 
 
that
18:14 / 13.02.03
Sorry for starting a thread that is 'twisted and wrong'. And sorry for being flippant about fucking shit up. I wish I'd kept my big gob shut and let someone else take the responsibility for this pretty much inevitable thread. So shoot me.
 
 
Bill Posters
18:19 / 13.02.03
Bippy darling, fine, point taken.

You know 'Nesh, you're the second doctor this week who's advised me to start lung'n'liver anihilation again! But I can't. I don't care if I'm a bastard without fags, I'd rather be real. But, what I will do is prolly not post for a bit, so as to stop bullying and whining and stropping. And maybe find myself a new suit which is more in keeping with my current state of mind. I myself won't leave the 'Lith (hell, one can't leave, this place is the Hotel California), but Bill Posters may be absent for a while, possibly permanently, we'll see. I think this corner of the world's had enough of my hissy fits, and I have put too much energy into stoopid politix over the last few years. There's no justice in this world, just me.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
18:24 / 13.02.03
Cholister - don't apologise. I just think this thread has been about an awful lot of necessary stuff. As you say, inevitable.
 
 
Bill Posters
12:38 / 14.02.03
Chol, I didn't mean you to take that personally, any more than I take it personally when you blame all the 'masculine' ones amongst us for starting all wars. There is such a thing as impassioned rhetoric y'know...
 
 
Bill Posters
14:00 / 08.07.05
*bump*

sorry, couldn't resist, on account of this thread being both highly amusing and also, well, rather interesting in the light of recent events, non?
 
 
Papess
14:22 / 08.07.05
I think we're pretty well fucked to be honest, got quite a shock last night actually when I turned on the TV and saw footage of the tanks at Heathrow thought something major had gone down, what can we do though? Get drunk and try not to think about seems to be my major plan...

Kayfabe: I think you're also supposed to put a bag over your head.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:09 / 08.07.05
Nice bumpage, Bill. This thread IS very interesting to read today.

Thinking of the "terror alerts" thing, they were saying on the news yesterday that Britain's had recently been downgraded... which just goes to show, you may as well ignore them. They are, for whatever reason, bollocks.
 
 
grant
19:12 / 08.07.05
My favorite version of the Homeland Security Alert System.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:19 / 08.07.05
Thanks for the trip in the Wayback Machine, Bill. Man... good times, eh?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:59 / 08.07.05
I'm nostalgic for 2003 already. Remember Jade Goody?
 
 
Olulabelle
23:05 / 08.07.05
No thank you.
 
  

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