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Our Present Situation...aka We're all gonna die

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17:52 / 11.02.03

If there's a thread on this already, apologies and please delete. But I was wondering how American 'lithers are dealing with the orange alert and the instructions to prepare themselves for a possible chemical, biological, radiological or nuclear attack and how UK 'lithers are feeling about our own alerts. How seriously are we taking this news? I put this in the conversation because I thought people might just want to talk about their own reactions, panicky feelings, stuff like that...

18:19 / 11.02.03

I think about it, hard not not to when it's in the news so much, but I would take it all the more seriously and be much more agitated about it were Bush and Blair not so concerned to build a casus belli at the moment.

Must be a happy time for British muslims celebrating Eid tonight, having it associated with terrorism in the public mind like this.

The biggest concern I have is that "dirty bombs" keep featuring in the press spiel and, whilst any terrorist attack would be horrible, the knock on effect and the lasting nature of that kind of environmental pollution would be a whole new kettle of fish to fry.

Has Rage had any dreams about Armageddon in Kennington or Camberwell? Might be edgier then.

18:38 / 11.02.03

I got my tablets to protect against radioactive iodine months ago, so as to beat the lines should a dirty bomb go off. I'm not sure what else one can do, aside from being generally on edge over the whole possibility of impending disaster and the further eroding of civil liberties.

I've a party to go to this weekend. That's more helpful to my peace of mind than most options right now.

Matthew Fluxington

18:52 / 11.02.03

I'm not sure how much stock I place in those color-coded alerts, since they have yet to actually correspond to something happening. Either way, I think it is a bad idea to live one's life in constant fear of the unpredictable. Hysteria will only make things worse if something goes wrong, and if nothing happens, you're just making your life more miserable than it needs to be. I'm in and around NYC all the time, and I'm not willing to let myself get too paranoid about it. After 9/11, I was a paranoid mess for a few months, but I've come around, and most everyone else here has too. You learn to cope.

Murray Hamhandler

22:18 / 11.02.03

Right. No need to get too bent out of shape about it now, I say. Not when we'll be on at least orange alert every day for the rest of our lives after we invade Iraq. We are setting ourselves up for a biiiig fall, I tells you.

22:38 / 11.02.03

I've read the Homeland Security documents about what to do to protect yourself from chemical and biological attack, but frankly (a) I don't think it's really going to happen and (b) if it does, I'm fucked anyway, and no amount of plastic sheeting and duct tape is going to help me.

01:26 / 12.02.03

A few things. Large cities are always on "orange" alert (quoted because I understand that the current color scheme is new, but that orange is, like, just a step or two from lockdown). NYC has been on "orange" alert since the Hostage Crisis. Also, am I supposed to believe that the person who suggested we duct-tape our windows shut isn't aware of the building codes requiring all buildings to have effective ventillation to the outside. The recent announcements seem to be more scare tactics from the White House, so look out for some new scandal in two weeks or so.

I also think it's possible that the attack as such has already happened, and this orange alert is after the fact. According to friends of mine in the South, an enormous viral epidemic is going on there, though no one knows much about it beyond its 'flu-like symptoms'. grant, you're in Florida, right? Lots of people out sick? My friends are in Mississipi and New Orleans, where supposedly it's like the first quarter of The Stand.

ONLY NICE THINGS

01:48 / 12.02.03

Oh my God....let Grant be spared this time round. Besides, isn't Orange alert when you release Rover? Has anyone seen any big white balloons?

01:55 / 12.02.03

Actually, Iraqi bombers have been releasing huge drifts of anthrax around here recently. Enormous piles of the stuff, all over the place. FEMA even have special vehicles to clear it off the road, although obviously they're not marked FEMA, so as not to attract attention from terrorists.

01:56 / 12.02.03

Not really that scared at all. I grew up during the tail end of the cold war, with all my older male family members in the military, close to the navy bases in Virginia. Whe I was in 2nd grade, I'd hear talks about how'd we be one of the 1st areas blown up in a nucleur attack. In my stint in the army, I spent some time in Kuwait. Most of the time we went on alert over there, it turned out to be nothing. I remember in jr. high school, during the Gulf War. People were talking about the end of the world then too. You know, Nostradamus and biblical prophecies and whatnot. Not sure what I'd do in a chemical attack. I do remember being told in Army basic training that it was very possible to survive a close range nucleur attack. I couldn't help thinking of those old duck and cover cartoons, and wondering if the Drill Sergeants actually believed this.

02:05 / 12.02.03

From my understanding it is possible to survive the first blast, if you're lucky enough to be behind or under something which takes the heat wave, then takes the shock wave without falling down on you (or is it vice versa?). You can't just lie on the ground, though, because the shockwave will throw you up in the air, the way you can throw, like, rice or paperclips or something up in the air by slapping the table next to them. Anyway, it's the MASSIVE loads of radiation that you can't protect yourself from.

Haus, as far as I know, people aren't actually dying, just getting really sick for about a week. A nasty influenza outbreak, or even a weak anthrax strain, could be the cause -- though you'd think we'd have heard about it if it's anthrax. Or, I could be totally wrong.

02:27 / 12.02.03

I haven't notice any viral epidemic here in Tennessee.

04:40 / 12.02.03

I don't know anybody that even gives a shit about the threat levels, whether they be conservative or liberal. They're a joke.

07:07 / 12.02.03

I think we're pretty well fucked to be honest, got quite a shock last night actually when I turned on the TV and saw footage of the tanks at Heathrow thought something major had gone down, what can we do though? Get drunk and try not to think about seems to be my major plan.

Onion keeps things light though (updated today) -

Saddam Enrages Bush With Full Compliance
WASHINGTON, DC—President Bush expressed frustration and anger Monday over a U.N. report stating that Iraqi president Saddam Hussein is now fully complying with weapons inspections. "Enough is enough," a determined Bush told reporters. "We are not fooled by Saddam's devious attempts to sway world opinion by doing everything the U.N. asked him to do. We will not be intimidated into backing down and, if we have any say in the matter, neither will Saddam." Bush added that any further Iraqi attempt to meet the demands of the U.N. or U.S. will be regarded as "an act of war."

07:33 / 12.02.03

I think they seem suspiciously convenient. They seem intended to build up anxiety and support for the war in Iraq. It seems to be a uniquely UK and US thing as well because there is very little mention of it in the European press.

If a terrorist group did launch an attack now then they would know it would lead to an attack on Iraq. So if it does happen...

08:09 / 12.02.03

Just thought I'd ask, folks. It's not something you hear every day - specific threat, biological, chemical, radiological, nuclear blah de blah. It worried me, anyway.

08:32 / 12.02.03

Can anyone explain to me the difference between us declaring war and dropping bombs and fucking shit up, and another country doing the same thing? I heard a newsreader saying that if we begin a war with Iraq then we can look forward to a lot of terrorist activity here. But surely if we declare war then whatever happens over here happens in the course of war and is not terrorism? I don't understand the bizarre double standard...

08:39 / 12.02.03

I think the threat is very real, Cholister. I'm not surprised you're worried, given the media barrage we face every day. There will be terrorist attacks on UK targets, undoubtedly.

I think all some of us have been saying is that the likelihood of any of us, as individuals, being caught up in such an attack is slight. I am much more likely to meet death or injury on my daily journey to work and back (when I'm not off sick with flu /anthrax poisoning), statistically speaking.

It's not that I never worry about things I can do nothing about or that I can banish anxiety just because it serves no purpose, just that there are lots of more pressing concerns at the moment for me to get in a stew about.

It was interesting to read the reporting of the Chancery Lane derailment. Horrible experience for all those people trapped in a tube tunnel but exacerbated by everybody thinking it was the start of something worse, that there would be explosions or gas to deal with too any minute, some planned terroristic event.

I have a particular nightmare about either G or me getting caught up in such a thing when we're apart, at different ends of the city. But if I were to let my imagination run off down that road, I would be unable to live any semblance of a normal life.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:33 / 12.02.03

London's apparently on full alert, as well. I find the timing a little too convenient (huge demo Saturday... Blix's next report Friday... Eid...) but, as Xoc says, we will be a target at some point. No point worrying about it any more than we had to back in the days when the IRA hit London frequently. Yeah, it was a much smaller scale, and just as random, and you'd end up just as dead. To dwell on it to a greater degree (again, as Xoc said) would just make life unliveable. (Actually, ignore everything I just said, and read Xoc's post again. He put it better.)

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:34 / 12.02.03

Oh, and Chol... as far as I'm concerned, there is no difference. Unfortunately, I'm not in charge. (Although maybe that should read fortunately ...)

09:41 / 12.02.03

The difference is that 'fucking shit up' is a Good Thing, yeah? It's what we Barbeloids should be doing instead of just talking, yeah? Yeah?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:45 / 12.02.03

I think you forgot to cut'n'paste large amounts of things there, elephant-boy! From now on, I shall only take seriously any comment accompanied by at least a screenful of regurgitated rhetoric.

Shit.

I'm lying again, aren't I? Gotta stop that. Soz!

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:49 / 12.02.03

Oh, and back on-topic (sorry to make this an extra post, but I didn't want to bother anyone- I'm feeling very timid today) it has always confused me, the way we've been bombing Iraq for ages (and by "we", of course, I'm not referring to me and my mates) but every now and then decide to go to war with them. Is it to do with whether the telly's there? I used to use Kate Adie as a yardstick (it goes "crisis", "conflict", "war", the last only truly applicable if she's bought a new camo hat) but she's gone freelance, so it's hard to tell.

And isn't there still a fair amount of shooting going on in Afghanistan, loooong after we "won" a "quick" and "decisive" "victory"? (Oh, and of course, *probably* killed that guy. You know, that guy that's just put out another tape. Him. The "probably-dead" guy.)

09:58 / 12.02.03

I really have trouble taking this orange alert thing seriously. Frankly, my chances of getting drafted and dying in combat are higher than my chances of getting all fucked up by a terrorist attack. Of course, that's only if that Rangel asshole gets his way and the draft gets reinstated.

I have other things to worry about. Maybe I'll start worrying when the alert becomes red, the sirens start wailing, and I see a great big mushroom cloud in the general direction of Fort Campbell.

10:23 / 12.02.03

It's a tired old propoganda trick- the more army presence and perceived threats, the less fuss the people kick up when you start a war. How are tanks at Heathrow going to stop terrorist attacks? There have been no threats, it's Eid- what Muslim would celebrate by killing? Isn't that totally contrary to Islamic credo? Personally I intend to go to London and demonstrate, the more people are there the more likely it is to be effective. Don't attack Iraq, we don't want the oil that badly and we don't want to follow Dubyah and we don't want innocent civilians to die in their thousands, or 'our boys' to go and die in the desert (most likely from friendly fire) we don't want war. Screw the stupid alerts, send 'our boys' to Afghanistan to repair all the damage we did there. Invest all those resources into intelligence, not bombers and propoganda, you lying politico scumbags!
Sorry, our govt's hypocrisy makes me angry.

10:29 / 12.02.03

But surely if we declare war then whatever happens over here happens in the course of war and is not terrorism?

Well, if you want to be that way. I imagine the difference is that they won't have the capacity to ship armies over here, so will be sending schlubby guys in white reeboks. A "war" is between two armies. But it is pretty silly to drop bombs on thei wives and children and then complain that they're not playing fair.

There have been no threats, it's Eid- what Muslim would celebrate by killing? Isn't that totally contrary to Islamic credo?

Jihadis are not normal Moslems.

10:29 / 12.02.03

S'alright. Our government makes pretty much everyone on this board angry.

I am, of course, aware of the political machinations behind this whole thing - however, hearing that Americans have been told to get enough supplies in for three days and prepare to duct tape themselves into a single room (just out of interest, if you do manage to render a room airtight, which I think is very unlikely, having seen flying ants emerge into this house from no obvious hole, how do you last three days with that sort of carbon dioxide build up?) is pretty disturbing.

10:35 / 12.02.03

How are tanks at Heathrow going to stop terrorist attacks?

Excatly, makes a good photo opportunity though.

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:53 / 12.02.03

Isn't that totally contrary to Islamic credo?

Well, quite. I'm not sure there is a single, monolithic "Islamic Credo". I also don't think that the antithesis of "normal Muslims" and "Jihadis" drawn by Qalyn covers the issue satisfactorily.

However, I agree that if we were seriosu about averting acts of terror, it might be a good idea to scale back on the military actions and invest a lot more in some really good bribes, and getting much cosier with Pakistan...

11:01 / 12.02.03

I, too, am thinking that this is more about getting the US and UK public into the 'right' headspace to accept war. As someone on BBC news said last night, if a specific threat to shoot down a passenger plane had been recieved, Heathrow would not be crawling with army and police personnel - it would be closed. I don't think the 'threat' is particularly worse at this moment in time, but then again I live in splendid isolation on the west coast. And of course the perception of a threat could be pretty stressful if you live in London right now.

11:15 / 12.02.03

Thanks to not having TV/internet/newspapers from September 4 to December 18 2001, I missed everything that happened, and have trouble taking the warning levels and threats seriously.

But! I do have a 1955 copy of 'What to do in case of a nuclear war', put out by the dept. of defense! Apparently a hat will shield you from the blast! and rinsing off fruits and vegetables will clean them of radioactivity (seriously! it's a great book!)

Goodness Gracious Meme

11:56 / 12.02.03

Good topic, Chol.

I think I concur with sfd that the alerts are a good way to bring the war down to a level we might engage with/scare us shitless...and therefore garner support. But I don't think many decisions in this whole conflict have been taken for one reason alone, and that it's probably to some extent a precaution as well as an atttempt at an advert for UK/US preparedness. And if the 'preparing us for war' was a major reason, it's a tactic that's backfired, in that I don't have an impression that public opinion is swinging in favour of war, rather the oppposite.

Found myself thinking of friends in London/the States alot in the last couple of days, and we're not that far away, but feel very distanced from that everyday fear that I experienced living in london. Mind you, I'm also worried about my parents, who live really near Gatwick... grew up with terrorism warnings/roadblocks being a pretty common event in the 80s, and know that they're pretty tense atm....

Take care, you lot. please.

But yeah, I guess I tend to respond rather like Xoc, in that I could drive myself mad if I carried on with those lines of thought, so I try not to, except in the odd conversation with good friends/ in counselling, where I feel I can let stuff out.

11:59 / 12.02.03

I'm glad someone has started this thread, because I was going to today.

While the terror alert may wellhave been implemented, as shortfatdyke says, to put the public in a wartime state of mind, I don't really doubt that there IS something afoot, either in the U.S. or on the arabian peninsula (which makes me really, really glad I'm leaving for Europe Saturday night, although that's only for a week).

There may be a blase, workaday facade affected by most New Yorkers, but I think a large percentage are really, really freaked out this time. I know for the last two days, I've been a little jittery riding the subway, especially during the morning. Intellectually, I know there's nothing I could do, but I've been eyeballing everyone in my train carriage and checking them off my list as suspects (basically, if someone has on jewlerly, or sports team stuff, or anything that expresses worldly concerns, they're safe. Also anyone overtly dressed in religious gear is okay.). This is certainly the most worried I've been since directly after 9-11, and I've even been thinking about planes again (though I'm pretty sanguine about my own upcoming flight). I work in a pretty tall building on the edge of Manhattan, so the idea has never been fully out of my mind.

Anecdotally, most of my coworkers have admitted the same type of fears/behaviors, and one, whose husband works for the Emergency Services Unit of the NYPD, has been forbidden by him from taking the Subway for the duration. I'm trying to go about my everyday life and not think about it, but the news media haven't made that very easy, with all the talk of radiological bombs, etc. ( ironically, for some reason I'd think I'd survive that, but a lone suicide bomber inthe subway would get me. hmmph). Coupled with very unpleasant medical news about someone very close to me, this has been a very stressful and depressing couple of days, and it's not likely to get any better soon.

12:12 / 12.02.03

Well, I've done a brief digest of the papers this lunchtime and specifics of threats haven't been released. Of course, our intelligence services would never pull a dodgy stunt to swing public opinion behind them, would they?

It is terrible to live under the threat of possilbe terrorist attack. I remember when the nail bomber was attacking London a few years back horrible feelings of paranoia amongst everyone I knew. Probably how everyone in Baghad's feeling right now.

12:16 / 12.02.03

I don't know - the new york media has been indicating that there were specific threats made against the subway system. Naturally, none of these news outlets have seen the actual Intelligence, but it's still messing with my head a little.

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