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Crowley. Let's have this one out...

 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:07 / 17.12.01
Alice is at it again...

This may be more suited to 'The Magick', but since Crowley gets cited as a guru, and since his life was not simply a long magickal treatise, I'd like to try it here first.

He's a fraud. A big, fat, confidence trick(ster) who used pseudo-learning and a considerable personal magnetism to avoid doing a day's work, to get laid, and make excuses to himself and others about a herculean drug habit.

His poetry is execrable. Most of it exists for the sole purpose of annoying his contemporaries, dissing Yeats, and concealing childishly scatalogical acrostics.

His magickal works are one long deluded fantasy, peppered with in-jokes and attempts to get you to whack off into jars of shit.

His mountaineering career, very possibly the only aspect of his life where he showed any genuine merit, was cut short by his own cowardice in the face of danger - which cost the lives of some of his companions.

His treatment of men and women as sexual partners and friends was unswervingly bad.

In short, he's not a role-model or a guru. He was a fantasist and a nasty piece of work. Why on Earth does anyone still give a fuck about him - and why do otherwise intelligent counter-cultural types embrace a man who today would probably be bosom buddies with strip-club owners and fleshy capitocrats?
 
 
sleazenation
13:29 / 17.12.01
I have a sneaking suspicion it was actually because he was all of those things and yet still managed to maintain, at least in the more credulous counter-cultural circles an interesting aura of mystique about him, that people are interested. And, yes were the man alive today he would doubtlessly have had his way with and stolen any money of as many of his admirers as possible.
 
 
Ierne
13:51 / 17.12.01
He's a fraud. A big, fat, confidence trick(ster) who used pseudo-learning and a considerable personal magnetism to avoid doing a day's work, to get laid, and make excuses to himself and others about a herculean drug habit. – Nick

I suspect that most people who dig Crowley dig him for the reasons stated above. It's the "getting over" fantasy that seems so attractive to certain types.

"dissing Yeats" – heh heh heh! Definitely no comparison between them in the poetry department!
 
 
cusm
14:13 / 17.12.01
Have you actually read any of his works in the magickal field? The Equinox? His Magick volumes? 777? Or are you just annoyed with Thelema? If you want to put an opinion out that someone is a fraud, you should at least be able to back it up with some research.

That he was lothesome, a complete fruitcake, and madman is well known. That his works on magic have influenced modern occultism substantially, is also unfortunately undeniable.

There is a LOT I don't like about him, and his work. However, I have over the years come to the unpleasant realization that he actually knew what the heck was going on. Mostly, as I come to my own realization about things, and find that he's been there first.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:40 / 17.12.01
Yes, I have read him, and I can only suggest to you that he was a capable plagiarist and obscurantist. Almost everything he writes is adapted from elsewhere, and if you want it to work you have to un-adapt it. His work is like a leech - it sucks meaning out of you in order to exist.

All those clever thoughts? Those are yours. Crowley's work is just a well-constructed mirror.

It's a good skill for a conman.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
14:53 / 17.12.01
In many ways he was the Templeton Peck of the Omega Team, is what you're saying?
 
 
grant
18:39 / 17.12.01
quote:Originally posted by Whisky Priestess:
In many ways he was the Templeton Peck of the Omega Team, is what you're saying?


(swoons)
 
 
invisible_al
20:00 / 17.12.01
Ok I don't deny he was an all round bastard and enjoyed fucking over the people round him.
But he still does come across as having SOME talent, didn't he do the first decent translation of the Tao Te Ching.
Still managed to piss away most of the talent he had though.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
20:45 / 17.12.01
I've heard it said, but I've never seen it. Until I do, I'm doubtful.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
18:49 / 27.12.01
quote:Originally posted by Nick:
[QB]His work is like a leech - it sucks meaning out of you in order to exist. All those clever thoughts? Those are yours. Crowley's work is just a well-constructed mirror.QB]


sounds like the definition of a great work of art.
 
 
Hush
20:23 / 27.12.01
re the mounaineering:
Was he a ropecutter?
Or did he make bad decisions?

The former is usually a very unwelcome person.

[ 27-12-2001: Message edited by: Jawbone ]
 
 
rizla mission
11:12 / 29.12.01
Crowley's kind of like the Elvis of Occultism, isn't he?

He was an unpleasant egomaniac with numerous extremely bad habits and the majority of his writing is complete bunkum but .. he's CROWLEY right? Without him, 20th century magic/k probably wouldn't have existed..

And I am constantly entertained by reading about his exploits - regardless of his artistc/magical merits, he was a great prankster and do-er of crazy and misguided things.. 'larger than life' as they say.

Though I'm sure it would have better for all the people he robbed/fucked/ruined/drove mad if he'd been fictional..
 
  
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