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Harry Potter and the Ounce of Sense - SPOILERS TO EVERY BOOK PUBLISHED SO FAR

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
13:54 / 29.01.03
Well, At the end of Book 4 we discovered that:


S
P
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R
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Lord V. is back, the Death Eaters (terrible name, terrible guys) are back in town, Dumbledore is in effect ready to set up Hogwarts, Britain's elite and possibly only school for young wizards, as a sovereign entity no longer obeying the diktats of the Ministry of Magic. Voldemort is clearly out to kill Harry Potter, as evinced by his ateempty to kill Harry Potter, and having been made to look like a great big tool in front of all his followers will no doubt want this even more.

Sooo....what the holy rubbery fuck is Dumbledore doing sending Harry back to the Dursleys, who have no means of protecting him from Voldemort and wouldn't lift a finger anyway? It's not going to tax V. to destruction to work his way through surviving Potter relatives....why not keep him at Hogwarts where Dumbledore, the one person regualry credited with the ability to protect Potter against Voldemort, can keep an eye on hiom, or at least send him to the Weasleys, who could muster an Auror or two from the Ministry of Magic or at least have some adult, skilled magicians generally availbale if they are attacked? Either Dumbledore is actually Voldemort (I maintain that literally everyone except Harry is Voldemort), or credibility is being strectched to the limit so that we can have another adherence to the Mallory Towers structure of the books (starting at the main character's home just before the start of term).

So, as opposed to the thread discussing Book 5 in general, this is a thread discussing how, assuming Harry doesn't end up wearing his entrails as a hat as a result of this piece of stupidity, Hogwarts might acknowledge its new-found status as place of protection for the target of one fo the most evil and powerful magicians ever. My suggestions so far, none of which I look forward to seeing put in place.

1) Slytherin is disbanded. No really. Seriously. Think about it. Every bad magician ever has come from Slytherin. Slytherin may be the titular house for the ambitious, but the latest influx emonstrates that it is in fact the actual house for the EVIL. Everybody in Slytherin is a cock. It would be good if any character had been represented as not a cock and from Slytherin, but no. Therefore, those currently members of Slytherin are given a quick run-through of the Sorting Hat and either rehoused or, if it insists on Slytherin, sent off with a hearty handshake to try to find Durmstrang. The sorting hat is then told in no uncertain terms that any future students it thinks belong in Slytherin should be assigned to the Bye Bye House. The only remotely trustworthy character we've seen so far is Snape, who can be reassigned. And since he's so *fucking* trustworthy, maybe he could actually be given Defence Against the Dark Arts this time round? You know, given that three of the last four external appointments have been fucking disasters?

2) Whether given the Dark Arts gig or not, Snape could, in the free time provided by the sudden lightening of his house master duties, become Harry's bodyguard. Alternatively, that could go to Sirius Black or Alastor Moody, both trusted and Moody at least is at a loose end at present. Certainly, any Headmaster not simply attempting to perpetuate an utterly illusory sense of idyllic schooldays should assign Harry a minder with a bit of previous on the dark magics front.

3) Even if Slytherin is kept around (and why not just honour Salazar Slytherin by naming the Quidditch cup after him or something?), Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle have to go. Yes, I know, this will leave no everyday antagonists for Harry, but we are concerned here with safety, not plot elements. Malfoy, Grabbe and Goyle have been identified as the progeny of Death Eaters (identified by Harry Potter, whom Dumbledore trusts implicitly, remember). Malfoy has openly voiced his support of Voldemort, and his policy of killing the House Captain and Seeker of Hufflepuff in front of a trainful of his peers. Even if he stays, he should be a pariah, although he will no doubt not be represented as such since the Reset button will be pressed. Seriously, the guy is Sheik Abu Hamza, but blonder. This will also help out the filmakers, as they will be able to carry on without the problem of an antagonist who can't act.

Any more?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:10 / 29.01.03
Dumbledore clearly states that Privet Drive is protected against evil things in the night so it's quite sensible that Harry should go back to the Dursley's for the hols! It would make sense seeing as how he's been living there forever and still isn't dead!

There has never been any real indication that Snape wants to be Defence Against the Dark Arts Teacher, just student rumour and disapproval of the other people in the position, can we blame him? No we can't. Rowling can't disband a House that Harry could have been placed in, Dumbledore will give them a fair chance, plus the boy wonder would probably argue for them anyway (in the best tradition of school book honour, Darrell Rivers would argue for the Slytherin's).


I'm more concerned by the almighty Dumbledore's decision to allow Dementor's on to the school grounds, what kind of headmaster is he? Hmmm?

Oh and Malory Towers - one 'L'. Let's get with the school book spelling here!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:25 / 29.01.03
Not convinced. Privet Drive may be proof against "evil things in the night", but in case anyone's missed anything, VOLDEMORT. BACK. ABLE TO ATTACK HP DIRECTLY. ALL HIS FOLLOWERS BACK IN ACTION. ALSO HAPPY TO ATTACK DURING THE DAY, THANKS. There is a difference between HP living there safely when nobody knows where he is and there is no Voldemort and no Death Eating and all is basically hugs and puppies and HP living there now. The only logical argument I can think of would be some sort of alarm system using which a tac squad of mages disapparate to Privet Drive to go on defence duty. Unfortunately, since most of Harry's supporters are based in Hogwarts and you can't disapparate in school grounds, I'm still not convinced.

And the point is that Darrell Rivers, for all her fiery temper, never cam under attack by a force of very able wizards intent on her destruction. Therefore, if we step outside the tropes of the school story, the question goes, what would be a sane and logical response to this rather dramatic change in circumstance? Rowling probably won't dissolve Slytherin or put Malfoy under surveillance, but I see no reason why a more able writer wouldn't have Dumbledore do it. There's a difference between a second chance (and Snape had presumably switched sides long before he was teaching at Hogwarts, remember) and keeping people very obviosuly pro-Voldemort and anti-Potter in a single cohesive unit. HP demonstrated by example that the Sorting Hat does not necessarily have to send people to Slytherin.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:51 / 29.01.03
Do you know what sort of tangle you'd get yrself into if you applied this kind of logic to Buffy and/or Angel, Haus?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:23 / 29.01.03
Oh, absolutely. They're screwed by dodgy writing and the formal demands of the medium also. But two wrongs don't make a right, do they?

Agree with me.

4) That sword of Godric Gryffindor's that Harry pulled out of the sorting hat? Good, isn't it? Why not let him keep it? Having Fawkes the Fucking Phoenix around to cry on him at a moment's notice might not be a bad idea either.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:04 / 29.01.03
Where does it say Privet Drive is protected and does it give any indication of by what?
 
 
Baz Auckland
16:10 / 29.01.03
...errr.. maybe they keep Slytherin around to keep an eye on them? Snape's in charge of them, anyways. Maybe's he's trying to get them to 'be evil, but not too evil.'
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:23 / 29.01.03
....what the holy rubbery fuck is Dumbledore doing sending Harry back to the Dursleys, who have no means of protecting him from Voldemort and wouldn't lift a finger anyway?

Erm, when Harry is transported to Voldemort, V goes on about how Harry has been protected better than he knows, there's some guff about Dumbledore invoking an ancient magic so Voldemort can't get at him while he's with his relatives (it'll probably be explained through some appalling 'blood thicker than water' guff. you know it. )

Although this may be another editor's thing. As in , there doesn't seem to be much in the first version.

So why doesn't Dumbledore pop down the ancient magic emporium and protect Harry all the time? and if, as per the beginning of book I, he has the capability for the powers that Voldemort has, but is 'too noble to use them', why doesn't he just stop being noble and kill 'im.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:27 / 29.01.03
Not to mention:

a) Snape has that veritaserum. Why not give it to everyone who comes near Hogwarts and ask the fairly simple question "are you now, or have you ever been, in league with Lord Voldemort? Would you like to be?"

Might not be foolproof, but it would thin the numbers a bit. Might have sorted out that Sirius Black business in...oooh...THREE SECONDS, as well.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:39 / 29.01.03
(I maintain that literally everyone except Harry is Voldemort)

But isn't Harry more Voldemort than anyone else, due to the infant-evil genius interface which left the mark? Hence the Slytherin dithering on the part of the Sorting Hat in Book 1 and the potentiation of the baby wizard's powers.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:48 / 29.01.03
...errr.. maybe they keep Slytherin around to keep an eye on them? Snape's in charge of them, anyways. Maybe's he's trying to get them to 'be evil, but not too evil.'

Exactly my thinking: these fuckers are evil, all right, but there's evil and then there's evil, if you get my drift. The worst damage to the world comes from folks who are trying to bring order to the world, or save their race, or somehow other operate on a large scale and "for the greater good."

By providing an atmosphere where these little shits are encouraged in their pettiness and self-interest, their little grudges and their personal avarice, the institution of Slytherin may itself serve that fabled greater good—by keeping the focus of the pupils on comparatively small evils like satisfying one's own appetites, instead of, oh, I don't know, crushing the world beneath an iron heel of despotism.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:50 / 29.01.03
But then, I've only read one book and seen one film, and it's a bleedin' children's book anyway, and not a particularly well-written one at that...
 
 
grant
20:49 / 29.01.03
I always thought Slytherin were kept around because of, well, the same reasons that James Bond was a hero. It takes a certain familiarity with tricksy sneaksy EVIL to be able to outmaneuver it.
(OK, not "always", but "I've come to the conclusion that..." - you get the idea.)

I also seem to remember a line in there about Sirius protecting Harry over the holidays, but I'm not sure. That might be a fabricated memory.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:33 / 29.01.03
The knowledge that Harry's uncle was a serial kiler recently escaped from Azkaban kept the Dursleys in line, but that's hardly the same thing....

Xoc: Yeah, that's the obvious answer. But don't you want to read "Harry Potter and the Crying of 'Dude!'", in which every other character says "Dude! I'm, like, totally Voldemort. I thought you knew.....suppose a shag's out of the question?"
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:41 / 31.01.03
To be followed by 'harry potter and the twisted smile' in which Harry is surrounded by every character from every book, and has to find Voldemort...and can't, due to every character having the same 'slightly twisted smile'

Gaaah
 
 
Jack Fear
15:15 / 31.01.03
To be followed by Harry Potter and the Rampant Adverb, Harry Potter and the Clunky Exposition, Harry Potter and and the Piss-Poor Use of Such Lame Modifiers as "Really," "Very," and "About", and Harry Potter and the Increasingly Dodgy Subtext.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
20:10 / 01.02.03
Humph.


You could at least have put a 'spoiler' mark in there.
 
 
Jack Fear
22:11 / 01.02.03
Apologies, BiP: thought spoilers were only required if the information contained in the post was even mildly surprising...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:23 / 02.02.03
I'll try and live with the disappointment.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:26 / 13.02.03
Ok..I've just read "Prisoner of Azkaban", and I'm beginning to see a problem here....

(Harry reappears, dazed. Dumbledore, Ron and Hermione rush to his side)

Ron: Dude! What happened!
Harry: Dude! Lord Voldemort's, like, totally powerful again. He just fucked up Cedric Diggory bad.
Dumvledore: Dude!
Ron: That's some pretty fucked-up shit, dude. If only we had some means of turning back time -
Hermione: Du-
Ron : - then we could get a posse of wizards together and, like, totally get Metal Gear Solid on Pettigrew before he got Harry. Then, like, we could take out You-Know-Who-Dude before he even got his power back -
Hermione: Du-
Ron: - and, you know, I bet those Ministry of Magic dudes wouldn't normally let us travel in time, but to defeat Lord Voldemort? C'mon, dude, they'd help us out! Total bummer that we don't have any -

Hermione: Dude, I'm RIGHT HERE....
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:06 / 13.02.03
Wait, isn't that bit from Harry Potter Gets His War On?

...I was just leaving...
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
21:52 / 23.02.03
Made me giggle, briefly.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
15:19 / 26.02.03
Clearly the correct slashy thing to do would be to move cross canon. Simply bring in hosts of pointy, pointy elves to guard harry at all ocasions. Of course this would have unexpected consequences, no ents because Artemis Fowl controls the trees (also explains the whomping willow).

The second option is just to let Harry get killed by Voldemort how bad could it be for non Muggle life? I for one welcome our new evil Wizard masters.
 
 
Cat Chant
15:37 / 03.03.03
I'm currently redrafting a long Harry/Snape story which makes sense of as much of canon's absurdities as I can take on in one go, but since Mr. Chesney - oops, JK Rowling - is as blind to the scorchingly evident love between Harry and Severus as she is to the implications of having easy time-turning magic; a foolproof truth potion; and, perhaps most staggeringly of all, a Potions master who teaches "potions which can stopper death" to eleven-year-olds when her Evil Nemesis's only avowed Evil Aim is to "defeat death" ("d'oh! Why didn't I get those apparently easy potions off Snape when he was still working with me? Or why didn't I go after Nicholas Flamel's well-publicized and unprotected Philosopher's Stone before I lost my powers? Or why didn't I replicate the research which discovered it?"), I suspect Order of the Phoenix will go awry somewhere.

Futher: if there are ca. 10 students per house per year (= ca. 280 pupils in the school), how come there are 800 pupils in the school according to the figures at the Gryffindor/Slytherin Quidditch final in whichever the hell book it is? (And how come *all* the Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs support Gryffindor? And why is Snape a Slytherin and Hermione a Gryffindor when they are both obviously Ravenclaw by inclination?)

And don't even get me started on the Marauder's Map, which cunningly shows "Bartemius Crouch" in Snape's office on the only occasion when it could do so without making it obvious that "Moody" is actually Crouch, and at no other time. It's also not quite clear why it shows Crouch at all: it's obviously not showing all - um, either 280 or 800 pupils, plus the (either way ludicrously small number of) staff - otherwise Harry would never be able to spot Snape's little dot. I mean, how hard would it be to make it make sense? The books are like forty million words long, anyway, why not shove in two sentences of exposition?

And, finally, if Hogsmeade is the only wizarding settlement in England - that is, if all other wizards live in isolated houses far from other wizards - what was the point of Voldie ("My Evil Nemesis Has No Nose!" "How does he smell?") sending up the Dark Mark into the sky when he killed someone? Who is going to see it?

And a final, non-Rowling-directed rant: I don't understand why people keep saying "they're only kids' books". Do they not read children's books? They mostly make sense, you know. They're not stupid.

Apart from these ones, obviously.

Ahem. Sorry. How would I protect Harry? Luckily, I don't have to: Snape'll do it for me, and he'll vanquish Dumblebastard as well.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
15:44 / 03.03.03
since Mr. Chesney - oops, JK Rowling - is as blind to the scorchingly evident love between Harry and Severus as she is to the implications of having easy time-turning magic

Deva, I now have the most monstrous Barbecrush on you. Mr Chesney! Exactly!
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:04 / 03.03.03
Hey leave Dumbledore alone, he's like everyone's favourite grandparent, with his sweet addiction and erm... he wears a big hat.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:13 / 03.03.03
Welcome back, Deva. How we've missed you. *blows kiss*

Just to say, I understand the next in the series will be Harry Potter and the Polydrug Potion.

In which Hermione goes poking around Snape's closet (again what *is* it with her?) grabbing Boomslang and various other things that we never find out the names of (Rowling running out of funny names? *Never*).

But, due to her distracted state (brought on by poking around in Snape's etc etc. why does Snape have to *suspect* people of anything, given that he's awash with Veritaserum and it seems pretty mild in comparison to allowing moody to go around cursing people. And why isn't everyone in the castle on a drip of it?) steals the wrong ingredients.

Result: Harry and pals (including Hagrid) embark on a *wicked* time, 'avin' it large in a lost weekend in london. Uppers, downers, poppers, speedballs, pills, thrills, trips, highs, lows (thus allowing for endless over-writing) .... One of them (I'll leave you in suspense) winds up in a coma, in a hospital bed, and not even madam pomphrey can save him. erm them. Thus reminding us that polydrug use will kill you.

the end.

I'm beginning to think a good deal of the appeal of the HP books is viewing them as meccano put together by slightly stupid children. They cry out to be taken apart and put together properly.

And to underline Deva's objection re the 'they're for kids' argument, go read some Jacqueline Wilson. Writes for kids, clearly, intelligently and unpatronisingly, in childrens' voices, about death, manic depression, family breakdown etc.
 
 
Cat Chant
17:42 / 03.03.03
Oddly enough, the *next* Harry/Snape I'm writing begins with Hermione poking about in Snape's stores (looking for abortifacients, since she has been knocked up due to being miserable alienated teen, particularly in the summers when her life abruptly flips genre from "undervalued sidekick in school story" to "bullied girl in Jacqueline Wilson novel" as she has to hang out with her Muggle friends who are catty about her not having the right mobile/sneakers...).

And I missed you, BiP and Kit-Kat (am v glad you agree about Ms Chesney: there's only about five people in the world who'd get that one ), more than words can say!
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:36 / 04.03.03
*tries not to pick scab*

Why, if as we discover in bk4, moody's magic eye(fnar) can see through invisibility cloaks ('it's come in handy at times' *boom. tish.*), aren't all teachers/aurors/authority figures/'trusted ones'/Harry/Hermione/Ron/Charlie, bloody everyone in fat etc fitted with them as standard?

Would have put kybosh on Crouch Jr. killing his father. That's why.

gah.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:57 / 04.03.03
So, if we are generally agreed (and we seem to be) that la Rowling's books demonstrate some dodgy ideology, serious failures of imagination, sloppy thinking, and deep, deep shitness of characterization, plot, and prose style...

...why oh why are they so compulsively readable, and why oh why have they insinuated their way into the headspaces even of people who have the critical vocabulary to recognize how shit they are?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
13:47 / 04.03.03
good question.

They're catchy (catching? maybe), and have elements that are vividly imagined enough to suggest an interesting world with potential... Personally, I think Rowling does a ok job with atmosphere, and realising her 'world' ... it's the plotting and characterisation that stink...

And so appeal to people who are interesting in taking frameworks and critiquing them, and are also for this reason (in addition to the obvious) ridiculously inviting fan/slashfic material.

Hence my 'meccano' example. Its like giving a bunch of lego freaks/little kids a meccano environment that has loads of really interesting-looking pieces and features, but that invites/needs taking apart in order to make the whole as good as the picture on the box.

And, not being a fanfic *writer*, i'm not sure about this, but possibly this toolkit potential popping up in something so all-conquering adds to the interest. As a reader, I think it does...
 
 
Cat Chant
17:49 / 04.03.03
I think they are the first books to (at least on such a huge scale, and so successfully) position the reader as *consumer*. They act on a particular form of subjectivity produced by high/late capitalism. I'm collaborating on an article about this at the moment, but we're not expecting to finish it till after Order of the Bastard is out.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:53 / 04.03.03
I am really hoping that the order of the Phoenix is a Nicholson Baker-style masterpiece of minutiae which takes 800 pages to describe the act of Harry ordering two pints of Phoenix Butterbeer at the Pointy Hat, or whatever it's called.

However, failing that...

This may not recommend it to Jack, but it's a massively ficcable and a massively slashable world; in fact, it seems to me to be a world the only logical response to which is fanfic, but the structures fo the books are so formal and the characterisation so poor, and the loopholes and lacunae in the world depicted so exploitable, that it's full of socket points for fanfic. See Blakes 7 here, obviosuly. Also, it's *slashtastic*, although not necessarily in a sexy way; hurt-comfort is the engine that fuels the entire Harry Potter world, as near as one can tell. Also, as well as the intense and claustrophic world of the students (if we take 280, that's about the same number of people as were in my college, and the habitable areas of Hogwarts are probably about the same size, if we can get the entire house comfortably into single room that is a room rather than a hall, then it must be astonishingly intimate), we have the interweaving temporal narratives of Dumbledore and Voldemort, then James and Lily Potter, their slashtastic chums and Snape....all the relationships are simultaneously so involved and generational, and at the same time so badly written, that they cry out for reworking.

So, HP is not so much a set of novels as a set of guidebooks or sourcebooks - you get an environment, a set of major characters and a rough history - it's a bit like a campaign book for an RPG, in fact.

Another possible approach might be that...well, it was said in, I think, the Guardian, and read by me before I read any of the books, that, whereas a truly meritorious children's writer can do plot, character and narrative/language, such as Diana Wynne Jones, whose plots are involved but coherent, whose language is generally excellent and whose characters are *superb*, Rowling can do character (which I would broadly agree with; certainly she can contribute a lot with fairly few strokes), plot but falls down on language - her books have strong characters and strong plots but are not brilliantly written. This does make them astonishingly easy to read, however, and, although I don't think the plots work in the sense of actually *making* much sense, they do, on the strength of actually caring about these characters, do enough to drive the reader on through them to find out what happens to whom.

I believe Warren Ellis (almost certainly quoting somebody else, realistically) said that Tom Clancy books, as they had no literary merit or depth to the cardboard protagonists, were readable only to start at one end of the plot and go through to the end - that is, plot, but no character or language. In the Clancyverse, character depth or linguistic novelty would probably detract from the experience. I think HP is a bit like that, but with more investment encouraged in the characters...
 
 
Jack Fear
18:54 / 04.03.03
Deva:I'd be interested in reading that article, when it's done—I didn't start reading the Rowling books (aloud—to, and at the behest of, my daughter) until well after I'd read your article about them in the Barbelith zine, and your spot-on critique has often been foremost in my mind as I read them. I assume this article will be covering some of the same points?

My experience of the books is unusual (among those on this board, anyway), in that I'm experiencing them primarily as a performer—I'm not reading them for my own pleasure, but for someone else's, and I feel obliged to perform them with conviction—not out of respect for the text, but for love of my audience—but am all the time aware that the text is implicitly promoting values that I do not necessarily share, and wondering how much of that is getting throughto Claire, and on and on.

This all rather ruins the books for me as stories, frankly, but makes for a fascinating (and sometimes uncomfortable) process—putting me in the position of being complicit in peddling the values expressed in the books: not for nothing do we speak of a convincing performance as "selling" the material...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
19:57 / 04.03.03
(off topic but have just noticed that the Girls Alone house appears to be stuffed with Jacqueline Wilson books. Distinctly saw one of them reading Tracy Beaker, which just seems twisted. )
 
  

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