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Cocaine

 
  

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Matthew Fluxington
19:25 / 13.10.02
1) What do you personally think of cocaine?

Well, I'm not keen on drugs in the broad sense, and I'm not crazy about cocaine in particular. I have no interest in ever trying it. It always seems like coke is the drug people are into when they hit a period of excess followed by a severe artistic decline - I can't imagine why people would want to risk repeating that pattern in their own lives. It's a lifestyle "living it up" drug, and that's certainly echoed in a lot of how some Barbelith posters are talking about their personal experiences with it. I'm not keen on that image, never was. What's the glamor of re-enacting the great failures of other people? I don't quite get it.
 
 
moriarty
21:11 / 13.10.02
One of the things I like best about this place is the wide range of experience that the members bring to the table. I've never even seen cocaine, and none of my close personal friends have ever taken it (that I know of, obviously). In fact, since most of my pals are straightedge, or close to it, even the talk of alcohol and weed fascinate me. I can't believe that some of you know tons of people who do cocaine, or just happen to come across it at random. Bizarre.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:27 / 13.10.02
Any of the bright children want to talk about the means of production, the relationships of producers and suppliers and the ethical implications of endorsing or condemning cocaine use?

Alternatively, does anyone want to suggest whether this thread should be moved to the Conversation or the Laboratory?
 
 
Ganesh
09:21 / 14.10.02
Well, the initial post appears to solicit personal opinion in a general rather than specific sense, Haus - which suggests to me that a) it's presently more suited to the Conversation, and b) the Head Shop was rather more inclusive Way Back Then. Whether or not this latter is a Good or Bad Thing is moot.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:58 / 14.10.02
Actually, I'd say that, then as now, things were given a bit of space to develop into a Head Shop thread, and that if they silted up, they were then moved. Given that this thread has had a year, I think we can probably safely relocate it where it will be happier.

I don't think this is about the Head Shop being more or less exclusive than it used to be. It's about people looking at the phrase "The Head Shop" and thinking that it is the logical place to talk about drugs. Also, presumably, pewter models of dragons and Phish albums.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
09:59 / 14.10.02
Hmmm... cocaine, boring drug, where's the thrill huh?

The ethical implications of condoning/condemning the use of cocaine?
Well actually I'm going to be controversial and say something obvious. Ha- bringing the fun in - I feel drunk, I must be tired.
There are none. Drug use/abuse is an entirely personal thing and whether you say yes, try this drug or no, stay away makes absolutely no difference. Big fucking deal, people take cocaine all the time, out of twenty random acquaintances I'd say twelve of them have done the stuff. None of them offer an opinion on whether to do it or not, two are addicts, four have partners who don't touch the stuff.

To condone the use of cocaine isn't wrong unless you have a pre-conceived notion of what is right and wrong. It's relative - for some people the worst thing in the world is to condone the use of butter - both cocaine and butter are apparently bad for you.

To condemn the use of butter/cocaine is right, again, if you have a notion of what is right/wrong. Rum punch as Mary Poppins says in that film with the rolling of the tongue, I say, Mary - coke addict - hmm.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:12 / 14.10.02
I don't buy Gap clothes any more. I don't buy Cocaine. I don't invest in firearms companies. All much of a muchness. Never mind the drug, check the system.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:17 / 14.10.02
And, long after and far away, Nick hits it. Whether or not cocaine is good/bad for you is not necessarily an ethical question at all, merely a physiological one. But how do you ensure that your cocaine is organically grown and naturally harvested by workers whose pay scales and right to medicare are guaranteed?
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
10:22 / 14.10.02
Drugs are fun.

Ok, that may not be a be all statement that covers every situation but the bottom line is that people start taking drugs because they are fun.

If you've ever been drinking on even a semi-regular basis then you don't bet to complain about any other kind of recreational drug use.

If you've drunk until you've thrown up on more than one occasion you don't get to bitch about how these people are hurting themselves.

Yes, there are downsides to taking coke, as with any consistent drug use. But, until you see them as causing lasting problems such as psychological disorders, insolvency and addiction mentality, then you really need to question whether you should be getting involved. You could approach this from a legal standpoint but do you really want to run your friends into the police?

Maybe you and your friends have less in common than you think, maybe you've changed.

Less rambling and more finishing this post i think.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:56 / 14.10.02
[shrug]

Well, it's true. If you manage to destroy yourself, that's your look out. If you then ask the National Health to pay for your treatment, that's got just the same legitimacy as asking them to pay for your new liver or your lung transplant. There may or may not be ethical questions there - it depends on your perception of the State, its responsiblities, and the degree to which your actions are a consequence of the places the State creates for you to be in.

If you hurt someone - say, driving whilst coked - that's another issue.

But the pure and simple business of whether you have a right to decide on the ethics of putting coke into your bloodstream - that's up to you.

So then it becomes a question of what you ask others to pay so that you can have that freedom. Like most other stuff.
 
 
Ganesh
11:25 / 14.10.02
Just one of the maaany rationing questions unaddressed on a daily basis in our wonderful NHS...
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
13:19 / 14.10.02
In response to Haus rerquest for a bit of social awareness, like:

Without doubt the ethical implications are as weighted as with any crop production from 'Third World' states...Of course, a pound of coffe and a pound of cocaine legendarily cost a very similar amount to produce, but while a gram (!) of coffee won't even make a single cuppa, a gram of coke regularly vends for £50 'on da street'.

A 500 gram jar of coffe costs about £3, half a kilo of cocaine considerably more...Both the end consumer and producer are being ripped off for the latter, the producer completely ripped off for the former. Both substances are refined drugs. Indeed, coffee, as with cigarettes, was traditionally a highly respected and potent drug used ritually throughout eastern europe and asia. The West, in time honoured tradition, took both a made them 'soft'.

Very few people regard coffee as anything but a 'soft drink' experience and think nothing of drinking double figure cups daily.

Hence it's relegation from luxury commodity to supermarket shelf-stacker.

History not being my strong point, I forget which fella it was exactly but my addled, drug-fried brain (no coffee this morning, see) is suggesting King Charles II as the monarch in England who actually BANNED coffee and shut down those monster raves that were coffee houses after disguising himself and hanging out in a few. He discovered that the patrons were so hyped on the amphetamine effects that, far worse than in public houses, where the proles were merely slurring, a huge level of anti-authoritarian dissent was fervently discussed.

Nowadays, the government wouldn't dream of banning coffee, as it is one of the Drugs against which they are not fighting a War, presumably because most of them are rather partial to its diluted effects in their cups.

The producers are being shortchanged equally on both products (probably by Western governments for both, fnord).

Of course buying illegal drugs has ethical implications - without a doubt, the funds are wending their way to highly unpleasant people who use them for far more unpleasant and destructive ends than the production and distribution of nature's bounty.

But then again, buying cosmetics, or washing powder, or coffee, tea, chocolate (cocoa anyway), in fact just about anything (especially in bloody Tesco's - buying milk from suicidally broke farmers at ONE QUARTER of the shelf price? Not to mention meats etc., and who even has a local butcher as an alternative anymore?), carries a weight of ethical implications which are equally disturbing, but far less obvious, and most people couldn't give a toss anyway.

Illegal drugs are stratospherically marked up because the price of distributing them could be ones personal liberty. There is a 'widely' accepted level of effort involved in their procurement. Admittedly coke has the Calvin klein T-Shirt edge - the label baggage quadruples the cost.

Milk? I don't know - just totally greedy wankers that rely on the laziness of joe punter and hir total apathy toward the plight of the producer in favour of convenience, free parking and a few pence off.

Sorry got to go now, pop in later!

:-D
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:49 / 14.10.02
On a completely personal-to-me level (which seems appropriate given the nature of the drug in question)-

coke is fun. Unfortunately, it makes you into an arrogant wanker.

Which is cool, if you're with a bunch of mates all sharing the same chemical experience. Suddenly, you and your mates have become Oscar Wilde! You are the wittiest motherfuckers in the world!

If not, however, people may get pissed off.

And you'll feel like shit later.

(Not dissing the drug per se, just saying... choose your company.)
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
15:21 / 14.10.02
It also tops our charts as the best sex drug.

Who's charts? C'mon, man. It's good, but not as good as really good E.

It's fun. I enjoy it. Thank god I can't afford to do it anything close to often. But it is a fun recreational drug, and relatively harmless when used none too often.

Crack, on the other hand, sucks ass. Only tried it once and I will not do it again. Sure, the high is phenomenal, but y'know...it's crack. I've seen what it's done to people. And paying that much for something that literally lasts only ten minutes? Bah.
 
 
grant
17:47 / 14.10.02
Nowadays, the government wouldn't dream of banning coffee, as it is one of the Drugs against which they are not fighting a War, presumably because most of them are rather partial to its diluted effects in their cups.


There are those theorists who suggest that coffee is more acceptable because it makes its users more efficient at their jobs; it's a drug for the Industrial Age, filling a social niche once occupied by beer.
(Yes, people used to drink beer on the job.)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:17 / 15.10.02
"Used to"?
 
 
w1rebaby
12:41 / 15.10.02
makes its users more efficient at their jobs

Coke was and is regularly used as a work drug in the city and media. Super-coffee. Which could explain some of the... bolder actions of speculators and brokers.
 
 
grant
18:16 / 15.10.02
Marching powder is also responsible for many a satisfied restaurant patron, thanks to the fuel it offers the waitstaff.
 
 
lolita nation
18:23 / 15.10.02
and the kitchen staff, too.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:14 / 15.10.02
damn straight. Smoking dope makes you stupid, tired and forgetful, which is not what a server should be, which means shitty tips, but coke...coke is....we really like coke.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
22:16 / 15.10.02
Think I have an image problem with it, which probably shows my age!

When I was at school/uni, it was v.expensive and only done very occasionally. Pills were pretty expensive, tho not as much so, and the culture of the places and people lent themselves much more to psychedelics and pot/speed/crystal/amyl. It still screams 'rich spoilt brat yuppie' to me, even tho' probably about 50% of people i know now take it on and off, and lots of them are nothing like this.

Tried it once, very drunkenly. It seemed to let me go on drinking when i really shoudln't have done, and made eventual sex with someone pretty good. No great desire to do it again, as I think I've got what I'm going to get out of it, and for reasons above.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
22:22 / 15.10.02
actually. to be honest, the culture of where i grew up lent itself more to jack daniels, snakebite and black, cheap grass and even cheaper speed. %ah, them's were the days%
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
22:28 / 15.10.02
reasons above being to do with arrogance not being something I seek from a mind-altering experience, but mainly the ethical consumption bit. I don't find it very interesting, and the sources are usually ethically really dubious.

But not sure how far you'll get with a conversation looking at why people do drugs from an ethical consumer POV, is.... altho' maybe it *should* be a consideration, it very rarely is. as people have mentioned, pot, coffee, tea, and nicotine fall into this category just as easily and many more people consume these without giving a shit about the ethical/financial/political/environmental consequences.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
22:59 / 15.10.02
While it's not particularly germane (well, maybe?) I think that my view of coke was pretty much implanted by self-image; which, by extension, could be why I've not tried heroin or much other stuff (I'm thinking more of one poster's description of the circumstances and self-esteem that led hir to try H than coke, but it's relevant here.) When I was growing up, I was asthmatic; still am. And parental conditioning led me to believe that if I smoked I would die, so I didn't. Consequently, I didn't get into dope, or anything else. My relatively moving-abouty teen years also contributed, and left me with nagging self-doubt, which meant that rather than drug consumption becoming something about availability, it became about me controlling who I was - rather, if I drank/smoked/took pills/whatever, I would become that person that I despised and believed lived inside me, waiting to come out and make people think I was shitbox. So, it became the reason I didn't do drugs, but at the same time, it's what tempts me towards them. I tend to avoid as I am Robust Constitution Boy, but am aware that if I like something, I tend to like it a lot...

With coke I guess it's really hard for me to let go of that idea of changing myself for the worse, you know? Some dear friends have done/still do it, and that's OK, but it still weirds me out a little, given that they do, no matter how hard I try to avoid the idea, turn into that stereotypical wankstain motormouth for fifteen minutes.

But maybe that's inexperience talking. Feck.

Is this an unusual thing? I mean, how much is drug-use fuelled by self-esteem issues? Particularly as coke is meant to be Instant Confidence...
 
 
deja_vroom
10:55 / 17.10.02
The day before yesterday my drummer invited two friends from his other band to our house.

I stayed with them for a while and watched as they consumed a continuous stream of coke. I don't think that's the type of drug I'd enjoy. The ridiculous over-polite tone they started using, the way they over-reacted to the smallest things happening around them - and how they would get down/impatient/irritated when the drug started wearing out... I don't know, they looked pretty much like three-year olds in grown up bodies. Really unsettling and a little bit depressing, too. Even the look in their eyes, I couldn't dissociate it from how small excited guinea pigs look like. I guess my major problem with cocaine is just how plain decadent the whole thing looks like. Extra ick points for sucking POWDER through the nose... ack, I find it terribly unsettling to watch.
 
 
The Natural Way
11:12 / 17.10.02
TBH, I don't think people talk any more shit (or even that differently) on Coke than when they're on speed or E. Coke's sooo similar to speed.
 
  

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