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Lets talk about Eminem again (also Zadie Smith...)

 
  

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Matthew Fluxington
13:13 / 15.01.03
But on the other hand I feel very strongly that when an original artist like Eminem manages to sell millions of records and be adored by millions of people, there's probably a very good reason why.

Well, yeah. But lots of original and talented artists sell millions of records and are adored by millions of people. And I think your key assumption of Eminem's music's inherant intelligence and challenging nature is flawed, because there's a lot of people who have very valid reasons for believing that claim to be false.

I think your point about Eminem's popularity becomes a lot more interesting when you honestly address how Eminem manages to play smart and dumb simultaneously, making a grab for low and middlebrow audiences at once, especially considering the fact that he is very smart and aware of his marketing.

A lot of Eminem's music and lyrics are deliberately meant to be a lowest common denominator affair, and I don't think that's always done for ironic effect. Most of Eminem's lyrics are also very juvenile and show toxic levels of selfabsorption - so you tell me, why should anyone take his mommy-daddy issues any more seriously than Billy Corgan's, besides the fact that the media right now favors blonde rappers more than bald guitarists? Really, no matter how great Eminem's flow and command of language is, does it really change the fact that the overwhelming majority of his content is typical high school poetry fare?
 
 
grant
13:27 / 15.01.03
I can't link to the article because I was getting it off Nexis.

But let me see if it's online elsewhere....

This Salon article linking Eminem and Zadie in a mutual admiration society might derail this discussion a bit, but is worth noting.

There's nothing on the Daily Telegraph site, and Vibe Magazine doesn't seem to have an archive.

On the "nigga" controversy, Zadie does quote these lyrics...

How many retards'll listen to me?/ And run up in the school shootin' when they're pissed with the teach/ - er, her, him, is it you, is it them?/ Wasn't me - Slim Shady said to do it again!/ Damn! How much damage can you do with a pen?

...juxtaposed on the tour with images of congressmen debating Eminem's lyrics on the floor of the House.

Among other lyrics quoted are these:

It's all political, if my music is literal/ and I'm a criminal/ how the f*** can I raise a little girl?/ I couldn't, I wouldn't be fit to.


He's pretty clearly (the way Zadie portrays him) concerned with words and the way words are used and interpreted as crimes. Smith correctly draws an analogy with Lenny Bruce in this case.
 
 
No star here laces
13:36 / 15.01.03
Flux, I'd absolutely agree with you re: tripe such as "Cleanin out my closet". I'd also agree with the 'singles artist' comment, but to me that is no sort of a negative. Most of the musicians I love are singles artists, indeed I can only name a couple of rappers who consistently produce good albums.

However I'd take the view that only a genuinely intelligent and challenging artist can produce individual songs that are in themselves intelligent and challenging, no matter what other dross they happen to produce - e.g. the fact that Stevie Wonder produced "I just called to say I love you" doesn't make "Higher Ground" any less genius or detract from his extraordinary talent. It's just a lapse of taste (or in Eminem's case bowing to commercial imperatives).

When I talk about Eminem I'm basically referring to stuff like "Stan", "Without me", "Lose yourself", "Kim", "Bitch please" and "The real slim shady" and "The way I am" and not the album filler. I don't think that makes the analysis any less worthy, however.

Grant - the "how much damage" quote is on the money, exactly the bit of the piece that's so absorbing - I guess because the thread Smith is drawing out is about the analogies between Eminem and novelists...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:53 / 15.01.03
Yeah, I understand where yr coming from on this Byron, and I don't disagree about the worth of 'singles artists', or that even one single great song can in turn make an artist great - it's just that I think it is unfair to not take all of Eminem's work into account when analyzing him, it's a lot like having every low grade you've ever had in your school career stricken from the record, you know? His failures are just as valid in examining his career as his obvious classics, and if we're going to only fawn over his best work and pretend that the rest doesn't exist, I think that it lowers the bar of criticism to the ass-kissing fanboy level.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:13 / 15.01.03
I find Eminem the most interesting public figure in popular media for exactly the reason that I, and many others, find it hard to reconcile the contradiction that he seems to represent.

When interviewed by Zane on MTV last year (hey, that cat is the walking talking product of the post-modern-sentence generator in Conversation, made flesh) he outright, and apparently innocently, denied having any interest in or worthwhile knowledge of politics at large, or current affairs. To be fair, this is reflected in his music, which is largely self obsessive or a running recursive commentary on the media's reaction to him and his work.

If politicians and parent groups had shrugged and adopted a 'so what, kids will be kids' attitude to the man and his music, would he have the same bite and currency and indeed body of work? I can't paraphrase the exact lyrics, but in "The Way I Am" he has a lyric suggesting just this...that the media and outrage at his antics has provided him the firebelly to record a whole album load of platinum records.

While claiming to lead a charge against this and that, his targets are largely easy prey, and sometimes blatantly wrong...like, what the fuck has Britney, N-Sync etc. got to do with the musical output their names are put to? "Baby One More Time" was conceived and written for TLC, and Cheiron productions (Max Martin) has been behind almost all the hits of both those 'acts'. The songs are churned out by these songwriter/production teams to a marketing concept, and the muppet-of-the-moment is installed to sing and perform them...so the lyrical charge would be more accurate, genuine and revealing if lead against these teams, and the media which contrives to keep them, largely songwriters and performers of the wrong age/bodyshape/race whatever from having any chance of succeeding with the material themselves. Going after the puppet seems churlish, if more amusing and easily identified by ten year olds. And therein is one of the contradictions he represents - his core audience is surely the britney fans and n-sync fans rough and tumble brothers and sisters, perhaps slightly older, but certainly not deconstructionist critics of pop-cultural artifacts?

On the other hand, the guy's talent is utterly undeniable, and his apparent humility and thoughtfulness in interview casts his stage persona in a really interesting light/shadow whatever.

Anyway, rambling a bit, gots to go.
 
  

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