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From Nation States

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13:46 / 10.01.03

What's this 'we'? I don't! Vote for another one then, and stop whining! You probably only need 3 votes to get a new rep!

14:08 / 10.01.03

As the people's republic of Hoxton has already stated, The UN has passed a resolution ensuring free education for all UN member states, this resolution has brought very real benefits to the schools of UN members of Barbelith. The UN has already brough benefits to barbelith.

Further benefits may be possible at the expense of some taxation from the UN. The People's republic of Hoxton is still keen to hear cogent arguments against allowing the UN to maintain tax raising powers.

No star here laces

14:27 / 10.01.03

Hell, I got one nomination already - you can trust me, I'm the second most liberal nation in barbelith! We're so liberal we eat chimpanzees...

16:52 / 10.01.03

Wow, you eat chimps? In the Sultanate of Gridley, we eat sacred monkeys. We should exchange recipes...

02:12 / 11.01.03

Firstly, I'm not sure why you would want the UN to be able to impose taxes. It doesn't make much sense.

Secondly, in fact the resolution has nothing to do with the UN imposing taxes directly. The title and description are misleading. You need to have a closer look at the details of the resolution and how UN proposals are written.

The effective parts of a UN resolution are the Category (Social Justice, in this case), the summary (a resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare) and the strength (significant). The rest is ineffectual window dressing.

18:33 / 11.01.03

The laywers of the people republic of Hoxton have carefully read the summarie of the most recent UN resolution which is thus
Description: The UN shall not be allowed to collect taxes directly from the citizens of any member state for any purpose.

As has been pointed out the aim of this legislation is to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare However The people's republic of Hoxton fails to see how preventing the UN from raising revenue is going to prevent it from increasing welfare. If anything UN mandated tax revenues could be used to create powerful welfare programs in all UN member states.

Perhaps The nation proposing this resolution is concerned that the tax burden might be placed unevenly on the shoulers of some states and not others, but surely setting fair levels of possible UN taxation is the task of another resolution.

Since the resoluion calls to prevent the UN from raising revenue that might be spent on welfare without offering a clear alternative as to how welfare in UN member states might be ameliorated The people's republic of Hoxton has voted against it at this time. However if any nation state can present Hoxton with a convincing arguement as to how a lack of UN taxation will reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare we will eagerly hear your petitions and act upon them.

It is also worth noting that currently there are 3774 votes in favor of this resolution and a mere 607 against.

20:00 / 11.01.03

As there are so many votes in favor and so few against, Hoxton's vote as delegate will have no influence. However, I'd like to help people understand how UN proposals and resolutions work.

The title and the description are text entries written by the proposer. They have no effect in the event that the resolution passes. In this case they may have been intentionally designed to mislead, for the amusement of the proposer.

The values that effect UN members in this resolution are the Category (in this case, "Social Justice: a resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare") and the Strength (in this case, "Significant"). These aren't composed by the proposer. They are multiple choice. It is these choices that will effect UN member nations.

For this resolution, I predict the effects on UN members would include :
- Tending the UN Category of nations towards the "left" of the political spectrum;
- A shift in the attention of governments towards Social Welfare
- Increase of Civil Rights;
- Decrease of Economy;
- Increase in social equality; and
- Increase in tax (contrary to the description).

23:07 / 11.01.03

But could this be used in the long term? or are proposal only used for one-time type effects? I guess its more of a programming thing than anything else. I would rather be safe than sorry, and keep Barbelith sovereignty. Ha!

01:58 / 12.01.03

In NationStates, Barbelith doesn't have sovereignty because it's a region, not a nation.

The proposals, as far as I know, only have one-time effects.

10:38 / 12.01.03

While what you say is true, i'm not altogether sure that the description written by the proposing nation has no effect on a resolution.

It seems that there migt be some programmy type person that is examining the UN legislation as it is passed and deciding if it is implementable or not - the recent resolution for the expedition of UN voting seem to not have been ignored in this way. Another reason for voting against this resolution might be as part of an effort to promote clear and well thought out legislation rather than this rather confused resolution. I guess we will see when it finaly become law (as will inevitably happen given the strength it has) and we see if welfare spending actually goes up despite lack of places for the money to come from.

So since voting against this resolution A) can have no negative effects since it does not propose and either or choice B) Is likely to have little effect in the face of over 3000 votes in favor of it. We are still currently voting against it.

We will see what results of this legislation are and if as auzilla's assessment of the state of the program (That it is the the Category and the Summary that influence the effect of a UN resolution not anything else) holds true we will vote on UN policy accordingly.

21:56 / 12.01.03

I am altogether sure that the description written by the proposing nation has no effect on a resolution.

I agree that promoting clear and well thought out legislation rather than this rather confused resolution is a good reason for voting against this resolution.

As for "negative effects", that entirely depends on what you mean by "negative". I have already listed effects that this resolution will have. Do they seem negative to you?

It looks like Auckland and Not F2B agree, but for different reasons.

13:32 / 13.01.03

You know, I suppose I should have expected this sort of thing when the Free Land of Carteria declared their national animal to be the Human:

The Issue

In a bid to provide a new revenue stream for Carteria's Beef-Based Agriculture industry, it has been suggested that humans could be added to the menu.

The Debate

1. "The fact is, the human population is out of control," says Beef-Based Agriculture spokesperson Max Licorish. "We have to do something about them anyway, so why not market them as tasty snacks? We could have human kebabs, human pies, human-on-a-sticks--the possibilities are endless! Let's not pass up this golden opportunity to provide a feast, if you will, for our economy."
[Accept]

2. "I agree that something needs to be done about human over-population," says random passer-by Sue-Ann Spirit, "but eating them? That's kind of gross. Let's just shoot the ones we have to and shovel their bodies into ditches like normal."
[Accept]

3. "I am shocked and appalled!" declared SPCA President Thomas Christmas. "If anyone needs to be culled, it's us humans. The humans were here first, remember? We need to take this as a sign to get our industry--agriculture in particular--to back off. The human is part of what makes Carteria a great nation!"
[Accept]

I am laughing too hard to make a proper policy decision on this one just yet.

20:54 / 13.01.03

"Let's just shoot the ones we have to and shovel their bodies into ditches like normal." Hehe!

I had the same issue, but my national animal is the hot dog. My decision was easy.

22:16 / 13.01.03

its even easier if you misread animals as athems and choose the ride of the valkeries...

02:34 / 14.01.03

Yes, I wondered about that. But can you eat it?

12:42 / 14.01.03

I think my issues are repeating themselves now. Ah well, fun's over?

No star here laces

13:27 / 14.01.03

I'd like to protest about the presence of the Kingdom of Robot Thugs in Barbelith. Shoelaces, like many of the peace-loving Barbelithians has very little in the way of defenses, and I'd like Hoxton to table a motion at the UN to enact "regime change" in this unpleasant and heavily armed dictatorship.

14:04 / 15.01.03

So, for the whole game my business sector has been dominated by arms manufacturers and I've finally brought them down. I had to cut military spending AND let their employees go on a permanent strike, but it finally happened. We now have "A very small private sector dominated by the Book Publishing industry."

Such satisfaction....

15:09 / 15.01.03

How did it effect your economy?

17:24 / 15.01.03

No noticeable change, but then our economy's been bouncing back and forth between fragile and struggling since we started...

17:43 / 15.01.03

How can I stop the inhabitants of my Isla Barbelita paradise breeding? There were only 5 million of them to start with and now there are 20 million. And my initial Evil, Corrupt Dictator intent has been transmuted into Socialist Paradigm. WTF?

18:04 / 15.01.03

You're just not being evil, corrupt and dictatorial enouch, Xoc.

18:34 / 17.01.03

Carteria's national animal is the human, which teeters on the brink of extinction due to widespread deforestation

Again, this is just far too funny (or not funny, as the case may be) in too many ways.

13:00 / 26.01.03

New proposal for Topic Abstract: International intrigue, trade ramifications and a just war in NationStates!

I have copied the latest regional dialogue here because only a limited record of posts is maintained on the Barbelith region page.

The Kingdom of Robot Thugs: The Kingdom of Robot Thugs has declared war on The Empire of Odilon Levidiotis! Since I instigated the war, you will decide which NFL team will represent you tommorrow at the Superbowl. Do your research pick a team sometime today and if your team wins, you win the war. If your team loses I win the war.

The People's Republic of Tupperware: Siding with The Kingdom of Robot Thugs yet still keeping one cheek on the fence, The Peoples Republic of Tupperware introduces unilateral trade sanctions against The Empire of Odilon Levidiotis. No more burping plastic sandwich boxes for the duration my friend.

The Empire of Odilon Levidiotis: I don’t live in America, let’s just say i win because your country is always loosing wars.
(Note: Not F2B takes that as a declination)

The Free Land of Not F2B: What happens to us if we win a war? What happens if we lose a war?
Without waiting for an answer, Not F2B prematurely springs to Odilon Levidiotis' defense, choosing the Oakland Raiders to win the Super Bowl.
I suggest that the loser has to style its nation name after that of the victor, to represent the puppet Government that is installed. If Raiders win, Robot Thugs becomes The Free Land of Robot Thugs. If the Bucs win, we become The Kingdom of Not F2B. Also, the loser must endorse the victor in the UN. Those are my demands. What are yours?

13:38 / 26.01.03

The Free Land of Not F2B: Robot Thugs, my advisors have suggested we also demand to resolve your next four issues. If you lose, you must have your Settings at two issues per day. Over the following two days, you post the issues in this thread. Your conquerors will reply with the responses you must choose to those issues.

This will have short term affect on your nation that can probably be adjusted back to the current status in a few days, but nonetheless we will be satisfied.

14:00 / 26.01.03

agreed.

16:32 / 26.01.03

Go Raiders!

23:14 / 26.01.03

The war is going badly. We're starting to wonder how wise it was to go into a war completely gun-free...

02:05 / 27.01.03

The buccaneer armies of RobotThugs have defeated the raiders of Not F2B. A puppet government has been installed in the newly styled Kingdom of Not F2B, immediately endorsing The Kingdom of RobotThugs in the UN.

The first issue that comes before the RobotThugs-installed king of Not F2B is:

Hospitals have requested that they be allowed to pay people for donating blood and other bodily organs, such as kidneys.

The Debate
"We remain critically short of blood plasma and various organs," says Not F2B One hospital administrator Calvin Love. "Especially hearts. A good heart is hard to find. But if we were allowed to pay for donations, we'd get more of them and could save more lives. Plus the donor takes home a few hundred hot dogs in compensation. Unless it's a post-mortem donation, of course. In that case we'd pay the family."

"Great idea," says social commentator Max Love. "Except for one thing. You know who's going to be selling their organs? Poor people! They'll be so desperate for money that they'll sell their own kidneys. Well, a kidney. This is just another way for the rich to buy themselves a better life at the expense of the poor. It must be outlawed."

12:08 / 27.01.03

A breeze flutters the new flag atop the palace of the recently crowned King of Not F2B.

The puppet ruler of Not F2B has issued a proclamation ordering hospitals to pay people for donating blood and other bodily organs, such as kidneys. The people of the formerly free land of Not F2B adapt surprisingly well to the absense of the usual consultation and building of consensus. A few self-described "high thinkers" in the universities, media and web forums mutter about the increased cost of various medical procedures, but scars from kidney removal procedures become a new, trendy entree to the "in" crowd in some circles. Economists comment that this seems to be having a positive effect on Not F2B's economy, now described in UN reports as "developing".

A few months later, it is discovered that at least one university fraternity requires a kidney donation as part of its initiation and hazing of freshmen. There is a flurry of media attention that quickly dies down after legal authorities answer the inevitable investigative questions by raising their hands and shrugging.

The second issue before the RobotThugs-installed king of Not F2B:

A loose coalition of sartorially-challenged individuals known as "Let It All Hang Out" has called on the government to relax public nudity laws.

The Debate
"For too long, our bodies have been trapped in these prisons of cotton and polyester!" yelled protester Pete Christmas, while apparently developing a nasty case of sunburn. "We must repeal the puritanical laws that make public nudity a crime. My body--my choice to dangle!"

"I agree," mused sociology professor Thomas Christmas. "But I don't think the protestors are going far enough. Public nudity shouldn't be an option: it should be compulsory. Nudity is highly liberating. And it would put that disgusting "Hooters" out of business once and for all."

"Whoa, whoa," says noted accountant Fleur Hamilton. "Are these people serious? The last thing I want to see when I'm out for a coffee is some lumbering, over-weight nudist coming down the sidewalk toward me. If people want to get naked, they can do it in the privacy of their own homes. Think of the children!"

02:53 / 28.01.03

"The children, think of the children," mutters the king of Not F2B, as he acquiesces to RobotThug demands. Sealing the proclamation that henceforth all Not F2Bers must be clothed at all times, the King is glad that at least he wore a tie to work today.

The trendy, high society "in" crowd are dismayed to hear that their precious kidney donor scars are now legally required to be hidden by clothing. There is a significant downturn in their productivity. The Royal Not F2B Tennis Club responds by reducing matches from five games to three, and golf courses are reduced to sixteen holes to allow the "in" crowd to complete a round in the usual time despite their "go slow" protest.

On the other hand, the new laws provide some peace of mind for parents with pre-schoolers waiting in line to sit on Santa's lap.

Following the recent military debacle, the Department of Defense has put its case for a substantial increase in funding for the coming financial year.

The Debate
"There are turbulent times we live in," says Defense Chief Violet Hamilton. "Turbulent and dangerous. And the only sensible response to that, of course, is to build a lot more weapons. Unless we get the funding we need, I can't promise that we'll be able to defend Not F2B's sovereign borders from rogue nations and foreign powers. Or those leaky boatloads of refugees, for that matter."

"NO MORE BOMBS," chant the protestors outside Parliament House, in a repetitious and increasingly annoying appeal. Spokesperson Thomas Mistletoe, speaking through a feedback-afflicted microphone, says, "Not F2B needs fewer weapons, not more! Make the world a safer place! Disarm now!"

05:51 / 28.01.03

See, I know that a country can be conquered but so long. Although The Kingdom of Robot Thugs would never decide this for ourselves, we feel it's better to keep NotF2B's conquered country unarmed.

"NO MORE BOMBS," chant the protestors outside Parliament House, in a repetitious and increasingly annoying appeal. Spokesperson Thomas Mistletoe, speaking through a feedback-afflicted microphone, says, "Not F2B needs fewer weapons, not more! Make the world a safer place! Disarm now!"

12:46 / 28.01.03

Although the Parliament is currently meaningless due to the occupation and the absolute monarchy installed by the RobotThug overlords, the noise and molotov cocktails from the peace protests have kept several of the concubines housed there awake at night. The king of Not F2B is therefore relieved to proclaim a continuation of disarmament policy.

"I fondly hope," the king announces in his Address to the Nation, "that never again will my kingdom know the ravages and inconveniences of war, but particularly I wish to avoid the expense. The quarterback's salary alone was more than I earn, and I run an entire country!"

However, the king had not taken account of the "in" crowd's fondness for American football and the mystique of glamorized medieval battle. Armed with hats, gloves, pants and a fresh, leafy tree branch, the "in" crowd expresses their dismay at the king's slight against Rich Gannon. The one car in the nation's capital - a disused but highly regarded 1979 Chevette - is overturned at night by a quiet, determined group of "innies". The curator of the nation's most pro-RobotThug 16-hole golf course finds the seventh fairway and green damaged by the evidence of rogue "innies" doing protest donuts in golf buggies.

Just as the nation begins calming down, a new poll reveals that national marijuana consumption has hit an all-time high, with alarming results.

The Debate
"My factory's productivity is down ten percent since marijuana was decriminalized," complains employer Fleur Dodinas. "And the number of thefts from the candy machine is off the scale. This so-called 'pot' needs to be banned in all public places. Let the junkies do what they want at home, but not in my workplace."

"Whoa, dude, no need to get, like, you know," says Free Your Mind campaigner Randy Broadside, from his parents' basement. "This is, like, a personal choice issue, you know. It's like... whoa, just back off what I want to do with my own body. Don't let the fascists win, man. There are some hot new eckies coming in soon, they should be legal too."

The king appeals to his RobotThug overlords for direction in this fourth dilemma.

13:41 / 29.01.03

"Maaaaaaaan, I'm outa here," whines the RobotThugs-installed puppet king, "before those Innies come and get me!" Having accrued enough wealth to live comfortably anywhere in the world through embezzlement, bribes, corruption and recently legalized drug-dealing, the king flees to voluntary exile in one of Not F2B's tolerant neighbors.

A few members of the In crowd manage to pull themselves away from their recreational pursuits long enough to sieze the reins of power in this newly re-categorized Civil Rights Lovefest. In the evening news, a prominent Innie comments, "Civil Rights? Isn't that the name of a jazz band?"

The Innies immediately remove government restrictions on television soaps that none of them admit to watching, and dismantle the nation's farcically democratic political systems. However, they continue funding of research using cloned human embryos, directing medical scientists to attend specifically to growing replacement kidneys and cloning Tiger Woods.

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