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Trance, Spirit Possession and Seidr

 
  

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Papess
21:16 / 03.01.03
I want to have a discussion about trance and the different methods of attaining this state, how to control and remember the journey, dream or possession and what other people's experiences with such things are.

Myself, I have just learned that this is something that I can do (I do not know if I can do it well, however.) and have been doing for sometime, unknowingly. I have discovered that I use certain postures to slip into a certain awareness, or "altered state". I can also help this along, as I am learning, by using music, dance, singing, chanting and of course sex and/or drugs.

What surprised me is, through almost all the traditions I have learned over the years, this shamanistic type of practice has been everpresent. In vajrayana buddhism, in cabbala, nagualism, even in wholistic healing therapies! Now I am endeavouring to learn the runes and have found out that the Norse have their own method of ecstatic trance-journeying called Seidr. There is not alot of information on Seidr (especially the sex magick part) and would I appreciate some, if anyone is familiar with it but, I would like to keep the discussion open to include various traditions and methods.

And before someone mentions it, I did a search and found these other threads...

Trance music/dope adventures
Drumming Recordings & Trance
Useful Techniques for a Well Rounded Sorceror
Possession

There was a ton of stuff on shamanism, so if anyone remembers anything specific to trance work in those, could you kindly direct us all there?

Thanks!
 
 
Mike
21:20 / 03.01.03
You may find some of the comments in threads regarding meditation and astral projection relevant as well.

For example, I expect your question "how to control and remember the journey" is answered in the astral projection thread.
 
 
Papess
21:24 / 03.01.03
Good point Evy!
 
 
Wyrd
15:17 / 04.01.03
Just so I know how to answer your question, what kind of trance state are you interested in? There are various kinds depening on what you want to do. "Journeying" isn't the same as attaining a trance state so you can work as a medium/oracle for example.

I've experimented with Oracular Seidh, to good results, and have worked as an Oracle for people. That requires a specific headspace, and an "opening up". I'm not sure if I can describe how to do it as I've developed my own way of doing it, and I just go with what feels right.

I've never been fully possessed as in the Vodou tradition. Interestingly, according to my various Allies/etc., I'm barred from this occurring (there are reasons). What happens in Oracular work is that part of "me" (ego part) is moved to one side to allow me to give answers to the questions I'm asked. Technically, at any point I can stop the trance, however, I've not had to do this so far. I interpret what I'm told/shown, though I do my best to just allow it to flow through so that I don't put any of my own biases into it. But, really, I'm speaking, not some other entity (though it's often quite close, and my voice and posture change a lot during the session).

Not sure if any of that is helpful...
 
 
Kobol Strom
20:27 / 04.01.03
My experiences never seem to fit into any system,and I've done quite a bit of research.Whenever I think I've detected a pattern something new happens that defies the rules.Some underlying processes remain the same,however,but I don't know whats going on.All I know is,I'm getting 'help'.Last night it was from three monkeys who took me outside my body ,then later they reattatched an umbilical chord to my sleeping body allowing me to awaken.During this state I felt impacts in my chest and I felt the painful breaking open that is normally associated with activation of chakra,or whatever.
I don't subscribe to any system,I just try to live with the idea that I'll never understand whats really going on.Despite the ecstatic nature of these experiences -I simply don't trust anyone enough to accept their version of reality or unreality.Its between me and me.
Sometimes it feels good to let go,but its also the state where the most painful change occurs-the self healing is a breaking open of the walls of some structure that feels like a part of our true self.
I'm lucky to get occasional help from apparently disembodied entities,in this case,three monkeys.But I'm not going to pretend I have occult knowledge of any procedure that would lead to a repetition of last nights events,and I'm even less sure that it was an entirely positive experience in the first place.
I wonder why people actively seek these experiences,it's hard to open your heart again,it hurts.It hurts like you think you're going to die,part of you seem to be impaled on metal daggers.Sounds like static in your ears and sensations of piledrivers going through your skull.Its like you're strip mining your ego trying to free up your soul.Then when you try and tell people about it they think your mad.
There are a million techniques but no answers.
In a fever dream once I felt a possession of a wild animal,it may have been a dog or more likely a wolf.I suddenly awoke to my own growling and I remember thinking of my family as food, but what happened next was:4 shining knights walked towards me from 4 different directions,and the spirit left me.This echoes what was said about 'being barred',which is why I mentioned it.
 
 
Papess
14:22 / 05.01.03
Thanks Wryd, I should have known you would have experience with siedr. The methods of going into trance either for journey or oracle, seem to be very personal. (I am interested in both, BTW).

So, I really appreciate personal accounts because these will fill in some of the gaps.

Wryd, you mentioned moving your ego to one side, and I have noticed precisely this. I, however, being the stubborn and egotistical twit I am, often need to keep my ego disabled a bit with drugs and/or wine.

Also, I am reading The Nine Worlds of Seid-Magic by Jenny Blain
and refered to quite often is certain words used in seith, or certain songs that are sung. Where would I find these words?

Kobol, that experience sounds intense. The are so many techniques and no clear answers about this. It is a very personal thing.

I know I have been doing this for years, but now I am intellectualizing it. Maybe this is not a good idea and it is letting my ego cover more territory.

As far as Possession goes, I have been possessed by spirits before and I think it is easy for them to do this with me because I am a whore. However, sometimes it happens at inconvenient times.

Okay, now I just sound insane.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
22:28 / 05.01.03
Where would I find these words? Elder Eddas, Saga of the Volsungs, your last journey.
 
 
Elbereth
06:12 / 06.01.03
I would also like to know about this especially how to induce ecstatic trancework while awake. I've done lucid dreaming (i'm real good at that) but all the concious efforts ive done have been without effect. also the other beings i meet while lucid dreaming are never good and most often horrible creatures. do i just attract them or is it a bias against invasive organisms (i'm a pretty arrogant and private person.
And many threads sites and comments seem to say drugs might be helpful. Is this all drugs, or just specific ones? because I've done enough tweak to pass out before and i cant imagine that tweak could ever be spiritual in any way shape or form. (tweak is also known as methamphetamine for those with vernaculars different than mine).
 
 
Wyrd
23:42 / 07.01.03
Identity Matrix, Jenny's book is really good and I'd recommend you keep reading. If you want to know a bit more about her then check out her web site. While you're at it, The Troth web site has a good archive of articles, including some of Jenny's (which appear in the book), on various topics to do with the Norse Tradition, including Seidhr. I also highly recommend you read The Seidhman rants, which is just excellent. And, the Hrafnar web site is a great source for information on Oracular Seidhr.

What you're probably referring to is what's commonly called Galdr, which literally means a charm that's sung. Sunny's rune web site gives a quick run down of rune galdr, which is what many people use, but of course, it can be any kind of sound or charm. Yes, the Sagas are a great source of these kinds of charms, and if you're seriously interested in this area then of course you'd probably benefit from reading them - they're all on the web too.

How do I do what I do? Um, this really is rather difficult to explain. I open myself up to the various connections we all have, and allow the information to come through. It's not a conscious thing - not surprising when you consider what's happening: the old ego is standing to one side, arms crossed and disbelieving. I very much operate on an intuitive and free-form manner, creating the connections in the manner that's indicated to me. I do my best not to question it, but to trust that I've trained myself well enough so that at this point I will just do it.

Then again, I don't the full-blown possession thing, which you seem to have a talent for. That does require a putting aside of the ego too, but usually the person possessed (as in the Vodou tradition) doesn't have any memory of what the possessing entity imparted to the questioner. The conscious part is fully displaced. My guess it's like putting it into another room, while in my case the ego is standing in the corner watching the events.

Neither is more valid, btw. Both are perfectly good ways of allowing direct communication with the Spirit World - in my opinion this is one of the oldest, and most sacred, experiences one can enjoy. I can definitely see from the people who I've worked for as an Oracle that they know that it is an extra-ordinary experience.

Regarding using drugs to disable the ego - that can work, but it would probably help for you to figure out a way you can do it (and undo it) without using drugs. It could increase your ability also. My guess is that this is a control issue: as in you're afraid to give it away, which is perfectly natural. However, perhaps you'll discover there's a deeper issue there if you have a look. While you describe yourself as a whore, is it the case that you act like this when you take substances like drink or drugs? Often, such substances are an excuse we use to allow ourselves to lose control, rather than willingly having to hand it over. The willful surrender to another entity is a very frightening experience to consider.

Now, please note I'm not encouraging anyone to just blightly hand over control of his/herself to any entity on a whim. It is best if you can be trained to do this, and at least - in the beginning - have a trusted person with you. Also make sure you set up the space securely so nothing malignant can get its hooks into you.

There are many ways to achive trance states, and I've certainly found that drumming, dancing and/or walking in a repetitive pattern, and especially chanting, are particularly good tools. For chanting it really doesn't matter what you say as long as it you just let it out. Often when I'm using a chant as a preparation to work as an Oracle I have nothing planned and just allow the words to trip out unhindered, and as fast as possible. I've also been experimenting with using various postures during such work, and again, I don't plan anything in advance, but move my body in the way that feels right.

I hope this is of some use.
 
 
Papess
02:55 / 08.01.03
Wyrd, I cannot thank you enough.

The willful surrender to another entity is a very frightening experience to consider.

Yes, exactly, but I know I have done it before without the full realisation of what I was agreeing too, because of course, I have to agree to it. Sometimes, some spirits are tricky.

It's not a conscious thing - not surprising when you consider what's happening: the old ego is standing to one side, arms crossed and disbelieving. I very much operate on an intuitive and free-form manner, creating the connections in the manner that's indicated to me. I do my best not to question it, but to trust that I've trained myself well enough so that at this point I will just do it.


This is the thing, I am now, suddenly questioning this, which, I have done for a long time. It feels like i am crystilizing something only to break it repeatedly. Fucking ego, I can only hope it knows it's place...there are so many better things out there than it.
ssshh!

Regarding using drugs to disable the ego - that can work, but it would probably help for you to figure out a way you can do it (and undo it) without using drugs. It could increase your ability also.

This is interesting. I just this past weekend took three hits of supreme X. Now I haven't done this in about six to eight years, (Rex knows, he was the last one I did it with.) The trip was great but now, I am having like these aftershocks, if i listen to certain music i am right back in that state...oh! and dancing helps.


This all took me me by a bit of force. I had no idea the nature of the Norse before this.



"Heidi men call me when their homes I visit,
A far seeing Volva, wise in talismans.
Caster of spells, cunning in magic.
To wicked women welcome always.

Arm rings and necklaces, Odhinn you gave me
To learn my lore, to learn my magic:
Wider and wider through all worlds I see.

Outside I sat by myself when you came,
Terror of the gods, and gazed in my eyes.
What do you ask of me? Why tempt me?
Odhinn, I know where your eye is concealed,
Hidden away in the well of Mimir:
Mimir each morning his mead drinks
From Valfather's pledge. Well would you know more?"
 
 
Dances with Gophers
12:17 / 09.01.03
Brian Bates's "Way of the Wyrd" is worth reading. During his research into Anglo Saxon shamanism he came accross a church document written by a novice monk who studied under a witch doctor. The idea was to gather info for the church on the Saxon shamanic practises. Brian Bates made this into a novel written from the novices point of view and recounting his experiences including visionary trance journeying. It is well worth reading.
 
 
Devil's Avocado
14:34 / 09.01.03
Way of the Wyrd is a *brilliant* book and I thoroughly reccomend it
 
 
cusm
17:13 / 09.01.03
Edred Thorsson describes use of mudra, body positions, where you physically take the position of one of the runes for meditation and casting. However, he gets this largely from the Armenian work of Guido Von Lisp, more so than tradition. Still, if you are looking for postures, that's a fine guide.

As for drugs, methamphetamine is not the way to go here. Not at all. You want to remove or trick the ego, not stroke it to new heights If you are going to go that way, psychedelics like LSD, mushrooms, or Salvia are the way that is done. Even Pot will do it. The drugs are largely a crutch to show you where to go. Once you've been there, you can figure out how to do it yourself through other methods.
 
 
Papess
19:11 / 09.01.03
Yeah, exactly cusm.

Recently took that X trip and it works for me, I don't think I need to explain why, however. The interesting thing is that state has been more or less maintained for about a week now. Drugs are like maps and roadsigns. Now I can remember where it is I want to go and go there.


Hey, not that I am knocking recreational use, just good to know the difference.
 
 
mixmage
23:35 / 09.01.03
... oh my goddess...

This is just my opinion, by the way, mostly off the top of my head. ie, to be consumed with sodium chloride. It's looong too!


Seiðr: from the root "to seethe", like a bucket of eels or snakes. Pretty descriptive, no? Thank you all for your input, links, books. This thread means much to me, because this is what I do.

Thank you Barbelith.

I don't want to get into the hi/lo debate but, despite the ceremonial aspect, I doubt Seiðr would be classified as High Magick. More like primitive-low-shamanism. You see, it's woman magick... therefore regarded with disdain by patriarchial heterocracy. Shabby magic, girly magic, nothing to do with combat. This is what we want them to believe.

The real story [sorry... the rumour that echoes through the sagas and eddas] is that Seiðr is too dangerous for men, and to be kept among the womenfolk. This is why most of it has been lost, never allowed outside the women's lodge... only spoken or sung.

This is why Bengali in platform's question about synchronous menstruation in the Q&A finally goaded me into action.

In order for a man to learn in the women's lodge, he must become a woman. Ritual transvestism is an itegral part of even the patriarchal heterocracy - Thor dresses up as Freya to rescue his hammer from the giants, but he's only able to do it because quick-witted Loki comes along as a maidservant. Hmmm, a shape-shifter playing dress-up? There's more to it than that.

The other thing that let me know I had to write this essay was the Simpsons this week. "I Love Lisa", where she get's two tickets for Krusy's 29th Anniversary show:

Lisa: I'm not sure if I should go. I don't even like him.
Bart: You're right, Lis, you shouldn't go. It wouldn't be honest.
I'll go, disguised as you.
Lisa: But what if he wants to hold hands?
Bart: I'm prepared to make that sacrifice.
Lisa: What if he wants to kiss?
Bart: I'm prepared to make that sacrifice.
Lisa: What if...
Bart: You don't want to know how far I'll go.

[is it me, or is Bart Bugs? he does a great Mel Blanc in this episode: Unhand me, Yankee!]

This loosening of gender constriction is required on a deeper level than just dressing up. Think Lord Fanny - there you have it. Freya Aswynn has remarked that some of the best Seiðmen she has worked with are gay. See?

There are two main paths, in my opinion: Wise Frigg [distanced/oracular/High Priestess] vs Wanton Freya [intense/magickal/Empress]. When Odin gained the 24 shapes of the Elder Futhark through his ordeal, he had no idea how to use them. Who did he turn to?

Freya, [meaning "lady" - cognate with frau] goddess of magick and sensuality. She taught him well. I believe they may have developed the sex practises together, cuz finding out about them is next to impossible!

I know that cured reindeer phalli have been found among the leavings of shamanic cultures. I have absolutely no doubt that the female orgasm was one of the lodge's closely guarded secrets. Gnosis on tap! But sex has a price... or is a price, as the tale of Brisingamen shows us. Some may not like to hear this, but Freya is a slut. She is one of the few examples of the integration of Mother and Whore. Her daughter is known as "treasure/precious" - Hnoss. just checking the meaning of the name and was given this!... Hail Freya! lol

The key concept of Freya Seiðr is Raido. Riding/ridden. This is very much similar to voudon, inviting posession. There are the two modes: consciously directing or wild abandon. Rider and Horse. This is where the joke about E and M comes from. Recently, I accidentally invoked Anansi on the way into a club. The whole "tricked into saying it" thing makes it even more authentic. Thing is... I don't remember about six hours in which, witnesses tell me, I was walking, talking, handing out marijuana and causing mischief. Sometimes, they just don't wanna share!

And yeah I had been drinking. Goldschlager, for the first time. That only serves to back up my crackpot theory. I have purloined two terms from elsewhere and adopted them as explanations of what I do: sacramentality and rampant animism. Sacramentality treats all intoxicants as pathways, rampant animism says that all "things/objects/etc" have a spirit/deity/entity attatched - even the sacraments themselves. Beer cults vs mead cults - Quaffing for Thor vs The Sacred Mead of Inspiration - made from the blood of a being who was created by the mingling of spit. A deal struck and sealed between pantheons. mmmm honey wine, when the honey is being used to store psilocybe mushrooms. etc. etc. etc.

For me, tweak was before i was consciously magick... but MDMA blasts open doors like a very scary mad thing. It happened to me right about here... one might say the source of my current situation. The point is, whatever the substance, it's a key... the thing on the other side of the door might decide to kick it open as soon as they hear it turn. It's Gonzo Magicko... take the pinch of salt, lick it, down the worm and bite the lime.

Funny thing is, mine was blue.lol

After my first Barbe meet, after a damn good breakfast, and an even better discussion of magickal preferences, I was aksed "yeah... but what do you do with it?" That stumped me for a moment. I gave the only answer I could, "I live it".

- the ritual nevr ends. Pick set of runes/rules and stick to it. expand and adapt it. learn their vocabulary. I chose to live the Norse paradigm, but as an evolutionist rather than reconstructionist; writing new dll's for an old OS

Disclaimer this all-out everything-in approach is not advisable for those who wish to:
a)hold down a well-paid conventional job
b)be seen as sane or rational
c)dislike the unexpected
d)have narrowminded friends
e)fly a plane for a living.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
19:57 / 10.01.03
Thanks mixmage for the excellent post. I have some questions though.

In order for a man to learn in the women's lodge, he must become a woman.

How sure of this are you?
My research has come across references to transgender practices as being related to Seidr but I have not found anything to show that it is necessary to the practice. However, this in addition to the lack of information about actually doing seidr could be why I have such difficulty actually puting seething into practice.
 
 
cusm
20:09 / 10.01.03
As well, there is the case of Odin learning Seidr from Freya. So, while it is a woman's practice, it seems one men can learn, but learn best through initiation (sex) with a woman.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
20:34 / 10.01.03
Yes, but having to learn it from a woman and having to BE a woman are to very different things.
 
 
cusm
21:04 / 10.01.03
Notedly, one can BE a woman magickly if need be. These things can certainly be cheated at
 
 
mixmage
02:45 / 11.01.03
d'oh!
... when ya hijack a thread, you gotta expect someone to call you on it. Coyote - don't ask me. I've never even seen it. It's mythic, and I'm of the wrong gender.

bleh. Still feel kinda queasy having blurted this out. This was my other point. Seith can be dangerous for men. Once again, I can't really clarify why, other than - it is the path of the mad old witch. The original witch.

May I remind you that Loki turns himself into a grey mare, then later returns with an eight-legged steed for Odin. grrr... that's the way it wanted to come out.... that's the trouble with this stuff. You lend your voice.

I let it roll out. Not all who follow my pantheon are as open-minded as barbelith, and the invisibles already has Lord Fanny as a seith-sorceror archetype. It helps make sense of a lot of the undercurrents. The gender-switching Loki is the pushiest git I have met yet, but ze looks absolutely Divine, Dahlink!... full of hirself.

Loki could learn as a woman... Jack Odin, cannot. The whole show run by goddesses... and this dude can't be one. lol. but above all...

you forgot the pinch of salt i prescribed. Sometimes i say things...
 
 
mixmage
02:58 / 11.01.03
and while I'm on the subject.
Ever given birth?
 
 
Ashley Yakeley
00:26 / 12.01.03
You see, it's woman magick... therefore regarded with disdain by patriarchial heterocracy.

You may have cause and effect the wrong way around. If Thomas DuBois [Nordic Religions in the Viking Age, ch. 6] is to be believed, in the Viking Age seiðr was regarded as unmanly [ergi] in a society that valued male forthrightness and openness, since it could be worked surreptitiously. Therefore it became "woman magic" (and also associated with the rather tricky Oðinn)... Even then, there are references to its practice by men, for instance the 13th-century Icelandic Laxdæla saga recounts manipulative seiðr magic performed by the men of a Hebridean family arrived in Iceland. DuBois also points to the divinatory practice of útiseta ("sitting out"), which is performed by men frequently in the sagas.

DuBois credibly traces seiðr to Balto-Finnic and also Sámi shamanism, both of which were, ironically, originally male-only traditions. With this in mind, I'll take your salt for your "women's lodge" -- we don't hew to Viking norms of male behaviour today any more than the ancient Sámi and Finns did. Certainly seiðr can be dangerous for men, but no less so for women. As a man, I feel "seething" is something worth reclaiming...
 
 
mixmage
00:59 / 12.01.03
... off the top of my head, or out of my rear... to see the word made me want to spill. I admit, I use the term to describe what I do, others might want to call it something else.

I can't speak with historical authority [obviously], the abstract invites personal accounts - I offered mine. This is what happens when the Norse paradigm met chaos magick and the invisibles head on at barbelith... and simmered in the cauldron of my experience.

I'm glad you delurked. PM me if you wouldn't mind conversing, or post your own experiences here.
 
 
· N · E · T ·
01:57 / 12.01.03
Since no one here has mentioned it (or because I missed it by my preliminary skimming of the thread) I'll suggest looking into NLP for no other reason than to provide another perspective on trances. It "clicks" for some people, and you'll never know if you're one of those people if you don't check it out.

My personal account can't really be summed up in words, but I'll give it a shot.

In the same way that your eyes are moving across the computer screen, left to right, extracting only the most relevant information from what you read, a whole new world subtly shimmered to life out of the backdrop of rarely noticed daily phenomenon. Rarely had I taken the time to search a person's face for minute variations in color, stresses and patterns in the words spoken, or the feelings pulsating throught my body every second, every nanosecond of my existence.

The most profound instance of trance being used in my experience would have to be a time that I transformed some of my most severe pain into sensations of comfort. After this feat of mental processing, I became concerned at the lack of information about the condition of my body and allowed some muted discomfort back into my awareness. What happened after this likely would not be believed, and is far too otherworldly to be described in the time I have at the moment.

Now I think I'll return to nowhere, that is, where I came from.
 
 
grant
20:11 / 30.06.05
I just found this pretty good paper on Haitian Voodoo & possession by an anthropology prof at Florida International University.

NEUROPHYSIOLOGICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL APPROACHES TO SPIRIT POSSESSION IN HAITI
by Steve Mizrach


Key bit from the intro:

Spirit possession in any given society, argued Bourgignon, could be articulated in all sorts of ways and defined by many more. Some might treat it as desirable, others undesirable; some might see it as the action of spiritual beings, and others might call it something else; some might make it an institution of religious life, while others might marginalize it; some would seek ways to inculcate it, while others might dedicate their energies to preventing it. Nonetheless, in any context in which it occurred, possession shared enough common characteristics to be dealt with as a heuristic device for explaining phenomena in myriad cultures, and the reason for these common characteristics was the simple fact that all human beings shared certain neurological features which determined the nature of the possession experience.

The guy's conclusion is that the possession experience in Haiti (and elsewhere) functions as a kind of folk-therapy/catharsis, but can also imprint people into certain social modes -- it could be used as a tool for social control, in other words.

The overview of the research into the phenomenon, though, is the real value of the thing, I think.

The author's big on "altered states of consciousness" -- just follow the link at the end and you'll find yourself in a wonderland of religious trance, entheogens & other related stuff.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:40 / 30.06.05
Wow, thanks for the article, grant--fascinating stuff.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:03 / 30.06.05
This--trance and trance posession--is something I've been looking into recently. It's something that I think I'm supposed to do next, but me being me I'm rather resistant to the idea on quite a deep level.

Several times now during my deity work I have had an odd sense of my consciousness being moved to one side, as it were. I find myself sinking into a sort of comfortable catatonia; I could move, but I can't quite be bothered. Then comes a feeling of being gently but firmly pushed out of the way--and then comes the moment of WTF Argh panic!? which breaks the spell and kicks me back into normal awareness.

This all started when I began to record all my altar services on minidisc, so I've formed a tentative theory that this something communications-related. I'd be interested in pursuing it, if I can find a way round the anxiety. (I'm just getting into mask work as a way of breaking down that resistance; it's quite interesting.)

The deprogramming/reprogramming angle in the article linked to above interested me. Possesion as therapy?
 
 
grant
21:38 / 30.06.05
Isn't that what NLP's about?

I mean, in a vaguish way....
 
 
Tryphena Absent
00:17 / 01.07.05
This sounds simplistic to say but I think you need to find a way to enter a trance without sitting still...

When I was 16 I only used to "dance for the Goddess." No other ritual work at all for about a year every other day.
It was trance work basically, there would be a moment where I'd just stop thinking- boom and carry on dancing with no muscle control at all. It was probably the best ritualistic practice I've ever engaged in and very effective but it's also the only type of trance work I've ever done that didn't cause any panic because my conscious mind wouldn't object, I was too busy thinking about the way I was moving. That's what I'd suggest if you have trouble sitting still and achieving possession, because it became so ingrained as I got older I found I could easily do it in clubs and other busy environments and you can just reach up with your hands and pull the curtain that is your patron's presence down.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
01:05 / 01.07.05
I think you need to find a way to enter a trance without sitting still...

Doesn't sound simplistic at all. Excitatory vs. inhibitory techniques as an override.
 
 
grant
13:38 / 12.07.05
By the way, there's another link-laden thread on possession here.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
15:39 / 12.07.05
curious,

I've been a vessel for entities that emerged from the dance floor on which I was frolicking. One by one, they occupied my flesh, and wore it around so they could frolick with the other folk on the floor.

old spirits, housed in the trees made into the wood of the floor. As I invited each in turn to enter my physical self, they moved my arms legs and, well, everything in very different ways - certainly not ways in which I was accustomed to moving. made for sore muscles the next morning.

bit of fungus was used to get the ball rolling, in case you're curious. It isn't necessary, however, I found it to be a convenient shortcut (my supposition is that as an intoxicant, they poison the "ego" and get it out of the way).

i'm pretty open to spiritual communion, whether I like it or not. i have been careless and let less friendly spirits in (or unleashed them from within, depending on the case), and my practice has been moving towards a more cautious means (using circles of protection, sygils, and ritualised summoning of my guardians/allies).

I haven't attempted to contact the Loa, as there are enough home-grown spirits here (Ottawa & Vancouver, Canada) who haven't received their due in quite some time.

I feel like a node, a gateway between their world and ours, which, on occasion, can be opened. Regardless of the nature of the experience, I have learned much from it. Pain is a symptom of healing.

I hope that helps.

X IX
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:30 / 17.09.05
I've been doing some more work with this, and I'm making a little progress (albiet very s-l-o-w-l-y, as I have about zero natural aptitude for this kind of works ans a truly impressive array of hangups).

Been experementing with masks and props (as discussed over here. Besides that, I'm also doing some of the excercises described in Jan Fries' Helrunar, paying specific attention to the breathwork. I'm investigating Seidh, which is not easy as everyone seems to have a different interpretation as to what Seidh actually means. I approached Freyja for aid in this, and was not so much rebuffed as turned firmly around and pointed back towards Odin. So it's him I've been petitioning for guidance and working with on this.

Something that's evolved almost spontaneously is a kind of dance. I'll start off by lighting the blue candle'n'incense on the Old Man's harrow, then stand quietly in front of it and wait. After a time, I'll find my weight shifting naturally from foot to foot, until I'm swaying in place; gradually this will become dance movements involving my whole body. I'll be shifting out of normal consciousness while this is going on. Right now this only lasts for a few minutes before my conscious awareness succeeds in breaking through and cocking everything up, but gradually I'm learning to sustain this state for longer periods. I'll keep doing it and see how it goes.
 
 
Haloquin
00:23 / 28.02.08
This was in the Stupid Magic Questions thread, and it was thought to be more helpful here. I'll post each reply in its own post for clarity;

Haloquin started with this;
I've been trying to practice/learn scrying recently. I've found I get results only when I start with an image and then allow it to evolve while using the focla point (a black mirror, in this case).

I decided to use a rune I pulled for focus; Laguz.

I got startling results and am not sure I want to scry around the runes like this until I'm better at it generally. It seemed to result in contact with what I assume is the rune-spirit. Who then (reasonably) wanted payment in return for helping (which I gave, but wasn't expecting).

It seems wierd to practice with the runes if I'm going to be bugging spirits before I have found my feet, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to use now.

So, please can I have suggestions for symbols to focus on for practice? Or would anyone recommend jumping headfirst in and sticking with the runes? If so, any pointers for how best to go about it without causing offence or incurring stupid debts? (Accepting, for the moment, the validity of this perspective.)

Also out of curiosity; would this, in your opinions, be classed as scrying?
 
 
Haloquin
00:25 / 28.02.08
The Infinite Dream Syndicate Replied;
I am not at all familiar with scrying, and apologies if this seems wrongheaded, but it seems to me that starting with a sigil might be the way to go. Custom-made for whatever you're scrying, no links to spirit or diety that you don't put there yrself, and debt free IME.

That's if you need a symbol to get you going. Does the image have to be a symbol? Could you, instead, visualize the person/place/situation/etc. that you want to scry?
 
  

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