Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Head Shop >

Am I racist?

05:19 / 24.09.01

I dont believe I am, maybe I'm a closet case...but I dont hate anyone because theyre a certain colour, or religion... I dont really hate anyone (except certain nation leaders- but even thats not real hate- more like frustration). But today someone called me racist because I said that the Australian Aboriginals would still be in the stone age if the whites didnt rape and pillage their land... Well maybe not still, but the opression of their race, in my opinion was inevitable. I think that although the Aboriginal people have been oppressed they have also been liberated in some respects they have knowledge and the world if they only try to get it... people say they have no access to an education and therefore money, but education is free, it is them who are oppressing themselves now, they decide not to finish school it is no fault of mine they live in poverty it is their choice to do so in the long run and they have to take resposibility for their own actions... Of course I am not saying this is true of every person of the race, I go only on statistics.
I will apologise profusely to the Aborigines if this is incorrect. All i need is to be corrected... and be pursuaded...

07:26 / 24.09.01

a few things...

assuming you're in australia, i have no idea what you can mean by saying 'education is free'. what education? university courses cost thousands of dollars - which can be deferred and taken as a hecs debt - plus hundreds of dollars in amenities fees, books, photocopying and incidentals not to mention living expenses. neither austudy nor abstudy - government benefits for students - amount to a livable income.

in general, your points simply don't follow from each other. you don't explain in what ways white culture is 'better' than traditional indigenous cultures, such that it's a 'liberation,' or how the attempted genocide of indigenous peoples which continued through the vast majority of white settlement might be considered any sort of 'liberation'.

you claim that the 'oppression' of indig cultures was 'inevitable' as if that was an ethical claim, without explaining what you mean by 'inevitable'. you might as well say the indonesian occupation of east timor was inevitable, since indonesia was an imperialist power with greater military force intent on acquiring the territory. that's pretty true, but it says nothing about whether the occupation was justified, or the attitude anyone should have towards east timorese people.

i am also curious as to what statistics you go by, since i imagine they are pretty much imaginary.

to be honest, the only answer i can give to your question is 'yes, you are'. you assume that indig cultures are worth less than white ones, you trivialise hundreds of years of murder, systematic discrimination and violence, and you have clearly made no attempt to actually get a balanced view of the facts before forming this opinion - if you had, you would surely at least not be using the phrase, 'i will apologise profusely to the Aborigines'.

10:17 / 24.09.01

Yes you are, everyone else is. Its a form of primal emotional incontinence and grownup people don't let it spoil their lives and do take positive steps to address any biases that arise out of it.

deletia

11:45 / 24.09.01

You may well not be a racist, except in the Luke Wing sense.

I think there is a very real possibility, however, that you are an eejit.

"It is them who are oppressing themselves now"?

The Damned Yankee

12:25 / 24.09.01

As an aside, one of the justifications for slavery in the American South was that removing Africans from the "savagery of the jungle" was that said Africans were being given the "opportunity" to become civilized, not to mention the salvation of their souls by forcing them to convert to Christianity.

All the same, I doubt you'll find a record of any slave saying that he thought he got the better of the deal.

18:04 / 24.09.01

I've read one... An English slave writes about how he's better off and has become a trader himself... but of course I can't remember the title, and it's the exception. There are more Native American narratives of this sort, people who felt they were better off for attending white schools; and a fair number of resistive stories as well. Silence, I'd say yes, prolly cause, as was mentioned, you're not thinking too hard.

18:24 / 24.09.01

I can only look at this from a Canadian perspective. I know little about Austraila, however the Native people of Canada have been treated terribly. The residential schools did teach Native children to read and speak English. They also beat and abused these same children for speaking their own language,bullied them away from their homes and parents, cut their hair and took away their individuality. I expect that things were no better for the Aborigines of Australia. Only now are things being done to recognize the wrongs that were done to the Native people of Canada, now that it is too late for most. I know , what's new about that. I cannot belive that these people were better off because of English/French influence. Most of them died young.

20:21 / 24.09.01

Silence, there’s a book called “Guns, Germs, and Steel” that you (and, indeed, everyone) should read. It’s a clear-minded historical treatise that explores the reasons why some cultures developed flourishing, technologically advanced civilizations based on agricultural surpluses while some cultures continued as hunter/gatherers. The answers he provides are so illuminating and so self-evident once you’re aware of them. It might put this whole subject in a different context for you.

09:51 / 25.09.01

Okay Silence first off, I respect your openness on the issue. It takes guts to post an issue like that, especially in here. But that doesn’t make it any more acceptable.
To evaluate how racist you might be, I think you need to ask yourself a few questions:

One:
You seem to equate aboriginal culture with “the stone age” , some semi-mythical period in time bereft of culture, art, religion or science.
If you believe this 100% then you are not a racist, you just need to watch fewer TV movies and read some good anthropology books. Aboriginal cultures had all of these things (and more) in abundance.

Two:
You imply that the westernisation of aboriginal peoples has somehow made them “better”. Whether you believe this is through education, healthcare or work, what you are really implying is that their culture, history and religious mindset was flawed or lacking. Or that really they were simply stuck in time, waiting to be modernised <"inevitable">.
If you believe this 100%, than you are not a racist, you are misinformed or deluded.

Three:
You seem to equate oppression <“rape and pillage”> with liberation, and imply that only be being ravaged and dominated, and then shackled by social constraint can the “black man” be freed from his savage nature.
If you believe this 100% then yes, you are a racist, sorry.

If you don’t agree with any of these statements 100% then there is hope for you. Go read some books, see some aboriginal artefacts, form a balanced opinion.
Overall you need to look around at the modernised world and ask if we have really bettered ourselves that much. If so, have we lost anything important? If yes, what? Can these be replaced in the modern world?
If you can read up on the subject, see the issue from both sides and then happily answer that we are much better off now and have lost nothing, you can be satisfied that you will have at least tried to re-evaluate your point of view.
But I will still disagree with you.

[ 25-09-2001: Message edited by: RedRunningLord ]

[ 25-09-2001: Message edited by: RedRunningLord ]

[ 25-09-2001: Message edited by: RedRunningLord ]

09:51 / 25.09.01

My POV:

Racism is not only about hate. It is about superiority, discrimination and assumptions about cultures other than you own based on eronious information.

Judging by this definition I just made up I think you would qualify as a racist. But Racist is just a term. Try thinking about the situation from the perspective of an Aborigine whose family was massacred, whose culture was destroyed and devalued, whose whole way of life was "not allowed" simply because it was not the way of the conqueors.

If you cannot imagine yourself in this position try an imagine yourself within your own culture. Imagine tomorrow your, town, city, house, tent, whatever was invaded by a malignant force who chose to enforce their culture onto you by violent means. The only other choice is death. You may not be given a choice.

My words may sound extreme. But this is (has been) colonialism (as seen in numerous examples in human history).

09:51 / 25.09.01

Silence, one the best ways to find out if you're racist or not is to imagine yourself into the life-world of Aboriginality, and then look at your own from that POV. Take a look at any of Henry Reynold's history books, David Malouf's 'Remebering Babylon' or "Bush Mechanics" ( currently on ABC TV in Australia). If you are of a more 'cultural theory' cast of mind, Edward Said's "Orientalism" is an enlightening read, especially in light of recent events, while Homi Bhabha's various essays on racism explain the nexus between the psychology and power of racism in convincing depth.

Yes, you are guilty of one of the worst types of stereotyping, but kudos for your honesty in being direct on this p.c. topic.

Molly Shortcake

17:18 / 26.09.01

quote:Yes you are, everyone else is. Its a form of primal emotional incontinence and grownup people don't let it spoil their lives and do take positive steps to address any biases that arise out of it.

Too true. Rascist dosen't = bad person, as many assume.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

17:28 / 26.09.01

quote:Originally posted by The Damned Yankee:
As an aside, one of the justifications for slavery in the American South was that removing Africans from the "savagery of the jungle" was that said Africans were being given the "opportunity" to become civilized, not to mention the salvation of their souls by forcing them to convert to Christianity.

All the same, I doubt you'll find a record of any slave saying that he thought he got the better of the deal.

Southern plantation owner: "Yes, they're very happy. Sometimes I hear them rattling their chains in a rythmic fashion."

Yes, there is a good chance you are racist. This doesn't mean that you are a Bad Person, just ignorant on certain topics, which is easily fixed with a trip to the libray. You seem open to the possibility that you may be racist, and that if you are you will make attempts to change that. Good fer you.