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Petty bitching, snippy infighting, and pointless condescencion...

  
  

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Murray Hamhandler
04:41 / 26.12.02
Am I the only one seeing a lot of this lately? "Us Vs. Them" running rampant on the board? Snide condescencion for its own sake? Is it just in Music and Comics? I haven't posted much lately because of it. I refuse to get involved in mudslingy bullshit. Why can't people communicate respectfully, at the very least?

Hopefully this too will pass soon. For Christmas, I want to slice through the tangled vines, poke my head in, and wish peace and happiness to you all.
 
 
A
04:51 / 26.12.02
Oh, so you're one of them are you?
 
 
Papess
11:25 / 26.12.02
Why can't people communicate respectfully, at the very least?


Unfortunately, some people think they are being funny when they slag another 'lither. (Ohh, so damn clever this one, eh?) Perhaps lack maturity has something to do with it, over-active imaginations or drugs....I do not know exactly, each offensive slagger has their own reasons and style.

Really though, the schoolyard feel is sick sometimes, complete with high fives in back rooms of private messages...."Nice burn, mate!"

I am going to put you all over my knee and give you all a proper paddling.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:45 / 26.12.02
If you're talking about the macho DOOD!/SUX!/"that's gay!"/"those pansies just need to beaten up!" element, I think that it would be a great folly for any of us to tolerate that sort of attitude on Barbelith, because it would only encourage it.
 
 
Ganesh
13:10 / 26.12.02
Derics, those "tangled vines" are the stuff of which Barbelith is constructed, with liberal dollops of the 'look at ourselves' pseudo-soul-searching which invariably follows. Turn, turn and, as they say, turn.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:02 / 26.12.02
If I EVER get my hands on you... you better fucking watch it mate.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:03 / 26.12.02
 
 
Ganesh
14:29 / 26.12.02
OooOOOoooOOOoooOOOooo...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:37 / 26.12.02
Quaking in your stylish yet affordable boots??
 
 
Ganesh
14:48 / 26.12.02
"Affordable"? Never!
 
 
bitchiekittie
15:27 / 26.12.02
I am going to put you all over my knee and give you all a proper paddling

stop encouraging them!
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
16:18 / 26.12.02
If I disagree w/a poster (or a poster's POV), is snide condescension the way to retort? Is my argument somehow more valid if I go out of my way to make the other poster look/feel like an idiot? And what about putting words/intentions into the other poster's mouth? Is this a good idea? Should I be surprised when the other poster takes offense and starts slinging shit back at me? Is it valid for me to present this return volley of shit to others and say, "See? See what this poster's really like?"

This behavior is ridiculous. There are people on here that I agree with and people who I do not agree with. Disagreement is not objectionable: it's grounds for discussion, for argument. For education sans didacticism. I've seen nothing recently so inflammatory or antithetical to the spirit of the board that it deserved the didactic "moral high ground" attitude that keeps popping up, with the possible exception of the aforementioned snide condescension. If berating and shaming others into believing what oneself believes is the new flavor of discussion on the board, you can count me out.
 
 
Papess
16:29 / 26.12.02
I'll save you for last

grin
 
 
Ganesh
16:31 / 26.12.02
We've been through this at least half a dozen times, Deric. People leave, 'disgusted', the mood shifts, people return, it all happens again. Enjoy it while y'can...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:35 / 26.12.02
You're really highlighting the problem with text here, comments come across in this way, a tone of voice is imagined that would not necessarily be there in speech. Tone is always what creates moral high ground, everything written is open to interpretation by the person reading it.

I very rarely read anything here that I really think purposefully adopts a moral high ground, I try to take my interpretation with a pinch of salt but sometimes Barbelith makes me raging mad, usually because of my own misinterpretation of what someone's saying or because I just don't agree with people. I don't really understand where you're seeing the bitching, fighting and condescension but then I don't hang around in music or comics that much (mostly because the music I listen to hangs in this weird abyss that I don't like to intellectualise and I'm catching up on a five year break from the land of pretty pictures and interesting dialogue).
 
 
Papess
16:52 / 26.12.02
If berating and shaming others into believing what oneself believes is the new flavor of discussion on the board, you can count me out.


Precisely.

That whole approach to discussion of, ...if you think that then you must be some under-educated, twit/faggot/bimbo/other offensive stereo-type... is rather tiresome.


No one knows everything, but together, I bet we can get really close.



Oh, and yes, funny you should mention - my boots are afforable but not cheap. I tend to go through about 3 or 4 pair a year (adds up you know) because I trash them when I am dancing. Better the boots wear than bruise my tender inner thighs on that big brass pole.
 
 
Papess
17:31 / 26.12.02
...comments come across in this way, a tone of voice is imagined that would not necessarily be there in speech. Tone is always what creates moral high ground, everything written is open to interpretation by the person reading it.

This is a fantastic point. Of course it can be used the other way 'round, to sweeten a sour post with claims of innocent discussion and debate. Sometimes, if I think I might be taking offensive to something imagined, I re-read the post in the voice of Alvin the chipmunk and it just isn't so offensive anymore. So, real or imagined, at this point I am giggling and don't care.

So, maybe Ganesh has some good advice,
People leave, 'disgusted', the mood shifts, people return, it all happens again. Enjoy it while y'can...

Not that this should not have this discussion, I think it is a necessary part of (collective) awareness to discover itself in order to have understanding. But! If all we discover is that she is a twit and he is a jerk and ze is a troll, then maybe we are not understanding as much as we thought.

Why, for the sake of personal greivences and pettiness sidetrack whole discussions by aiming hostility at another fictionsuits opinion. To argue points they don't even care for and arrogantly make remarks resembling:

"Look it up!"...with the implied "dumbass" at the end. That can't be covered up. It is just bad manners.

or sometimes the attitude of:
"You obviously don't understand or could even if you tried!"...this is just totally baiting and can't even be justified as an educational prompt.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:51 / 26.12.02
Oh nooooooo!

BARBELITH IS DYING!!!!
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:06 / 26.12.02
Oh no, Barbelith's bleeding.

Oh noooo, Barbelith's bellllleeeeeedddiiinnnggg.

Oh no, Barbelith's dying.

Oh no, Barbelith's ddddyyyyyiiiinnnnggggg.

Thank you Godspell for possibly the most stupid song ever and thank you Jack Fear for reminding me of it!
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:22 / 26.12.02
I'd also like to add that I really think people took the 'Moby Attacked' thread in Music a little too seriously. OK, a pop star got beaten up, no one should be beaten up but considering that Moby is not someone we know it doesn't exactly make it the most heart rendering thing. Stuff like this happens all the time and the best way to deal with it is to retain a sense of humour in the face of the wickedness that surrounds us. Somehow it was reduced to everyone bitching about his character and Eminem's bastardyness to other stars (I contributed to this but then I find Eminem's toss hysterical) and whether to take him seriously or not. Maybe we should be more worried about the way the threads on Barbelith are evolving then our infighting because we all seem to have the attention span of newts.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
19:01 / 26.12.02
I know we've been through this before, Ganesh. It happens. I don't know. Some people here just seem to be in really bad moods all of the time when they post anymore and it makes me sad to see it. There's enough unbridled negativity out in the "real world" already that I hate to see it seeping in here when it does. I'd like to think we could be above all that, but I guess we're only human after all...
 
 
bitchiekittie
20:42 / 26.12.02
the attention span of newts? what on earth are you muttering about?

oh look, something shiny
 
 
No star here laces
21:27 / 26.12.02
Euch, Anna listens to shitty metal, she must be a 14-year old who hangs around Camden trying to look cool by drinking cider in her baggy trousers. And Jack Fear's just an old bastard, no-one listens to him. Deric, why don't you come back here when you've covered the basics of high-school philosophy and learned how to spell, eh?

Oh wait, you mean this isn't a thread for petty bitching and pointless condescencion? Sorry...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:43 / 26.12.02
Oi Bitchface, oh sorry was that Bitchlace, obviously being 14 I can't read and I'm so drunk on that appley goodness that even if I could I wouldn't be able to now.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
21:45 / 26.12.02
You're just a big facist, Byron... ;p
 
 
Jack Fear
22:05 / 26.12.02
But at least he can spell "fascist."

Oh, and this:

Jack Fear's just an old bastard, no-one listens to him.

Spot on.
 
 
Potguns
22:37 / 26.12.02
Iv'e gotta agree with the sentiment here, being a new poster it's led me to remember what a certain type of geek (not geek in a bad way) are like for tripping people up on the whole misenterpretation / tone of posts. Come on we all know people like this and know how damned irritating they are socially. This will eventually lead to an over analysis of everything you type as to not offend or be tripped up, which is restriction of our free speech and is what this site shold promote more than anythin! It seems to me people seroiusly need to leave their egos at the door!!!

But hey, what would we do without Barbelith?
Pot.
 
 
Jack Fear
22:47 / 26.12.02
This will eventually lead to an over analysis of everything you type as to not offend or be tripped up, which is restriction of our free speech...

...or an incentive for you to learn to construct your arguments more coherently, to think your statements through before you make them, and to express yourself in a clearer, more articulate, and less emotional fashion, such that only the wilfully ignorant could misinterpret your posts—no great loss, since the opinions of the wilfully ignorant can be safely ignored anyway.

That's the way it's worked for me, anyway. My written communications skills and my critical thinking skills have improved dramatically in the time I've been on Barbelith, simply out of self-preservation.

Is it "restricting free speech" to expect that newcomers smarten up, rather than charge in demanding that we dumb down?
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
22:59 / 26.12.02
Jack. Was a joke. About the "not being able to spell" thing. Nevermind. If I must explain, mustn't have been much of a joke.

(Although I am aware that I misspelled "condescension" in the topic heading...)
 
 
Seth
23:11 / 26.12.02
Spot on, Jack. I demand high standards from Barbelith posters. I don't like it when people cry foul if their theories and ability to communicate happen to be picked apart. Raise your game, folks. Oh, and the thread title is descriptive of some of Barbelith's funnier moments. Let's keep the rapier wit and unceremonious smackdowns, please. They may hurt initially, but they make us better people
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
23:25 / 26.12.02
And: But why should the incentive be to avoid being berated mercilessly? Maybe that tack works for some people, but I know that it never has for me. There are ways of helping people smarten up w/o being a jerk about it. There are ways of telling people that you disagree w/what they've said w/o resorting to name-calling and talking down to them as if they were dogs. Are we opting for stern schoolmarm-ism here over liberatory, cooperative education?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:29 / 26.12.02
You've got to whip people in to shape to assure good character. Play up and play the game even when it's typically frustrating.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
23:32 / 26.12.02
Maybe I am in the wrong place...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
01:05 / 27.12.02
All this from one thread? One thread where someone made a dumb comment and got pulled up for it?

Niiiiice...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:18 / 27.12.02
I am only joking when I use my Enid Blyton-esque language but I also agree with Jack...

Is it "restricting free speech" to expect that newcomers smarten up, rather than charge in demanding that we dumb down?

because when you join a board you have to adapt to the rules dictated by that board. Of course what I'm really saying is that I prefer to inhabit a space where I can actually read people's posts! Cheer up Deric, Barbelith's just shaking itself down for its next life-cycle.
 
  

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