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Calling classicists please

 
  

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Cat Chant
11:54 / 15.12.02
I have a friend who is cross with the anthropocentric nature of philosophy and is attempting to put this right by pointing out that humans are just a species of chimpanzee. With this in mind, he has asked me this, which I am passing on to you:

I want to change the biological name for humans (Homo sapiens) to indicate

(a) that they are in fact a species of chimpanzee, and
(b) that they have (only) two hands.

Sorting out (a) is easy enough, since the genus name for chimpanzee is
'Pan'. But the second part (b) is more difficult, and beyond my feeble capabilities. The root could be Latin (like Pan paniscus) or Greek (like Pan troglodytes), though it must end up sounding like a 'proper' classification. In an ideal world, the species name should indicate that humans have hands, but only two of them (as opposed to other, superior species of chimpanzee, who have four, but I know that this is more difficult, and would settle for a name which simply states that 'humans' have two hands.


My Latin doesn't go much further than feeling that "bimanus" or something would suffice (particularly if implicitly compared to "ambidextrous"). Any of you lovely classicists want to help?
 
 
Lurid Archive
12:20 / 15.12.02
While I sympathise somewhat with the sentiment - I did post that Ape Rights thread, after all - I don't think this is right. Humans are not a "species of Chimpanzee". Chimps are a species - though there is some confusion in the fact that Bonobos were taken to be chimps, while in fact they are a different species.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can have a species of a species. See here. You can have subspecies, but humans are clearly not a subspecies of chimp. If you look here you'll see that humans and chimps belong to the same super family and though I think it could be argued that they belong to the same family, I also think it reasonable to distinguish between Pongidae and Hominidae.

Then again, I know relatively little about taxonomy so feel free to enlighten me.
 
 
Lurid Archive
12:43 / 15.12.02
OK, it seems that my second link is out of date, at least according to Wikipedia. Apparently, Hominids

are a biological family which includes humans, extinct species of humanlike creatures and often the great apes (classifications varying considerably). Originally the group was restricted to humans and their extinct relatives, with apes (Pongo, Gorilla, and Pan) being placed in a separate family, the Pongidae. However, the Pongidae are paraphyletic, whereas most taxonomists nowadays encourage monophyletic groups. Thus many biologists consider Hominidae to include the Pongidae

But,

Some researches go so far as to include chimpanzees and gorillas in the genus Homo along with humans, but recent genetic evidence suggests that the human relationship to these species is not as close as previously thought.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:17 / 15.12.02
Hoom - I don't know from taxonomy, but "bimanus" is probably about righ, if we extrapolate from "bimammius", meaning "having two breasts" (Pliny, although I think he's using it to talk about plants. There's "bimatris" also (with two mothers), which suggests some sort of adjectival transfromation, but as the genitive of manus is manus (long "u" sound - it's fourth declension), you're probably OK.

But perhaps the idea of only having two arms could be expressed instead by either supplementing or relacing "bimanus" with "claudus" (lame, and thus more poetically generally "crippled") or "fatuus" (clumsy)...
 
 
sleazenation
14:10 / 15.12.02
I know a little of taxonomy because of my work. Taxonomy is a constantly changing set of interrelations continually being updated, even now, in the light of continual scientific discoveries and the re-evaluation of evidence.

According to Colin Tudge's 'the variety of life' (possibly one of the most up to date and accessible assessments in modern taxonmy) chimpanzees are considered a sister group to the hominids the family which contains humans. They share a common ancestor but developed seperately along different lines.

perhaps the best way of exploding the myth of teleological development that end in humanity is to explore how much more succesful in evolutionary term other groups of organism have been. A third of all known creatures on earth are beetles belonging to the order coleoptera.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
14:34 / 15.12.02
Can't do better than bimanus on the two-handed front but what about taking troglodytes as your springboard?

not cave-dwelling apes but
pan politikos or ptolioikos - for a city-dwelling ape
pan proastites - for a suburban ape
maybe pan ephestios - ape with a hearth and home

But I know little Greek. Latin versions:
pan civis
pan suburbanus
pan domesticus

I don't think it would suit your particular needs but pan tommycooperis might have the correct connotation of legerdemain.
 
 
sleazenation
14:45 / 15.12.02
back to taxonomy for a moment

it would still be valid to state that homo sapiens are just another species in the group hominoidea, a group that also include chimpanzees.
 
 
Lurid Archive
17:24 / 15.12.02
Thats what Wikipedia seems to say - that chimps and humans are in the same family (Hominidae) if not the same genus.
 
 
Cat Chant
08:13 / 16.12.02
Thanks! Xoc - the hand thing (as opposed to the city thing) is important because of Heidegger, but I don't want to get into that because I know little of Heidegger... but I know even less of taxonomy so I'm staying completely out of that discussion (though thanks, Lurid, I'm sure it'll be useful to my monkey friend).

It suddenly occurs to me - rather brilliantly, I think - that it might be possible to use the dual form of kheir, but I can't be bothered to go and look it up because my Greek grammar is way the hell over the other side of the room and the Internet is right here. Would that work to imply "only two" or would it be more like ambi, suggesting that two is the correct and maximum number for hands? And does anyone know what the dual form of kheir is?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:57 / 16.12.02
I'm not even sure their *is* a dual form of Cheir...will have a think.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:09 / 16.12.02
Ah-hah! I knew there was something weird about Cheir, and Cheir it is, if you'll forgive me. You'd expect the dative dual (with two hands) to be Cheiroin, but it is in fact almost always Cheroin. Typical bloody Greek - have an irregular form for something that almost always turns up in pairs.
 
 
Cat Chant
10:27 / 16.12.02
Should it be dative in this context, though?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:34 / 16.12.02
Depends what you're looking for. In order to remain the standard taxonomic format, you probably have to make it adjectival - and god luck with that, since at that point you'd have to go back to the nominative - because otherwise you would not be describing a being with two hands, but two beings with hands. So dative would be my best suggeston for a dual, using the dative of respect (a monkey in respect of two hands, kind of thing), or possibly gloss it to something like cheroin chromenos...
 
 
Cat Chant
11:39 / 16.12.02
Dative of respect, eh? Classy. Do you think the dual works for or against the "only" two hands thing, though?

Or going back to the Latin, would it be possible to do something with sinister rather than manus to incorporate the idea of clumsiness?

(Sigh. Sometimes I miss classics, but then i read Hugh Lloyd-Jones's introduction to the Agamemnon and remember why I don't want to be around people with unconsciouses like that. You get a much higher class of neurotic in cultural studies.)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:00 / 16.12.02
I wouldn't personally (miss Classicas or use "sinister", that is); one, because I can't think of a context in which "sinister" was used to mean awkward as in clumsy rather than awkward as in ill-omened or unpleasant, and two because if the point is that man is all arrogant about his tool-usiness, then using a term that reinforces ideas that left-handed people are not as good as right-handed people seems a bit like a quartering of the original bisection, if you see what I mean...

Perhaps a Greek adjective to go with cheroin meaning clumsy or deformed...

Actually, I really fancy something made-up along the lines of "demibracchiatus". Now, I know this is bad form, especially as there is no verb bracchiare meaning "I attach arms to someone", and I know that technically speaking the bracchium is the lower part of the arm rather than the hand.

But a) "demi-" is going to get across incompleteness in a way that flipping around wth "bi" or "ambi" is not, and b) it's quite a god pun, since bracchia is used to describe the limbs of a tree (Pliny, I think....maybe Vergil. One of that tree-descrbing crowd), and of course we have the modern verb to brachiate, meaning to move by swinging from trees, which of course humans are shit at, on account of not having enough working gribbing appendages. Plus, and this is the fun part, the adjective "brachiate" means "possessing equal limbs on either side" (of trees, that is, I think pretty much exclousively), so a demi-brachiate would presumably have an equal number of limbs on either side, but only half as many as you might expect...
 
 
grant
17:36 / 16.12.02
what's "naked" in Latin?
 
 
Cat Chant
21:18 / 16.12.02
nudus. Honest. It really is as simple as that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:13 / 16.12.02
Hoom. Except I imagine Grant is thinking of "the Naked Ape", in which case "naked" means not without clothing, but hairless. Which I can't think of "nudus" being used for. Something closer to the mark with "having a hairless body" might be "glaber"...
 
 
Creepster
22:45 / 16.12.02
why does everybody know latin and greek? its disgusting.
but if we could just Heidegger for one moment Deva? How does it help? youre not talking about the possibility for being dasien in humans as opp squirels are you? admit complexity must necessarily escape us here, but i would like to suggest a couple of obvious features that run contrary to the evadent absurdity "-humans are, in fact, an inferior species of chimpanzee-" like shakespear(ill remind you here of the chimps crusty the clown "employed" to write his sketches. pretty poor material though indeed it was "remarkable that i wrote anything at all" according to the chimp himself), language in general, hmmm civilization, the particular importance of history for us, the simpsons, saturday night live, petter sellers, shirley manson and the greeks. still chimps have feelings also and i think its disgusting that we do painful experiments on them and give them aids and make them wear make up and that sort of thing. that being said its imperative we dont let it go to far and end up with a twelve monkeys type situation or even a planet were the apes rule the human. and that is why we must ban the bomb, for chimp and anthropod alike!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:55 / 16.12.02
Creepster: As the boy once said, when the French start thinking, they think in German. When the Germans start thinking, they think in Greek.
 
 
CyberChimp
09:27 / 17.12.02
Many thanks to all those who have replied, classicists and taxonomists alike, as well as to Deva for posting my query in the first place.

As Sleazenation has rightly pointed out, taxonomical nomenclature (known as 'systematics' in biology) is constantly changing in light of both new empirical data and evolving principles of classification. Colin Tudge's excellent 'The Variety of Life' is lively and emminently readable (Oxford: OUP, 2000), whilst Charles Jeffrey's 'Biological Nomenclature' provides a short, technical explanation (3rd Edition, London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1989). The question of primates, and great apes in particular, is especially vigorously contested amongst specialists. 'My' idea that it would be preferable to classify humans as chimpanzees is taken from (though not confined to) Jared Diamond's book 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee' (London: Vintage, 1991).

Diamond broadly follows the school of taxonomy known as cladistics (which seeks to base classifications on the genetic distance and times of evolutionary divergence of species) as opposed to 'traditional' taxonomy (which seeks to base classifications on those distinctive physical and functional traits of species deemed 'most significant'). He argues that, given the tiny genetic difference between humans and chimpanzees (just 1.6%), "humans do not constitute a distinct family [Hominidae], nor even a distinct genus [Homo], but belong in the same genus as common and pygmy [bonobo] chimps" (p21). Any other two species with DNA this close (willow warblers and chiffchaffs for instance) are invariably considered members of the same genus.

Despite the title of his book, and keeping strictly to the rules of zoological nomenclature, Diamond suggests that, since the genus name 'Homo' was proposed first, we should use this, rather than 'Pan', for the name of the shared genus. This would thus render common chimps as Homo troglodytes (rather than the current name, Pan troglodytes) and bonobo/pygmy chimps as Homo paniscus (rather than Pan paniscus). Not wishing to be responsible for bringing yet more humans into the world, I favour the alternative tactic of renaming just one of these species, giving us Pan troglodytes, Pan paniscus, and Pan bimanus (or whatever). Either way, as Diamond observes, "even taxonomists espousing cladistics are anthropocentric, and the lumping of humans and chimps into the same genus will undoubtedly be a bitter pill for them to swallow" (ibid).

For those who are interested, the importance of hands to all this is due to Heidegger's particular brand of ultra-humanism. He suggests that what is distinctive about humans is the fact that they alone have The Hand, which allows them to distinguish individual beings from Being as a whole. Humans do this, he argues, by indicating (pointing out) beings with their hand, that is, by demarcating individual beings. Heidegger conflates this 'marking off' - a form of 'handwriting' - with Language, another trait he believes to be uniquely human. (There are traces of Heidegger's 'hand argument' in the 'opposable thumb' thesis which resurfaces from time to time.) By calling humans Pan bimanus (or whatever), I wanted to mischievously indicate that (a) humans are not the only creatures with hands, and (b) humans aren't even as 'handy' as certain other species (this latter will go some way to addressing your suggestion, Sleaze, regarding other animals' evolutionary success). Hands are thus crucial to my 'new name' (though thanks for your initial 'arms' suggestion, Little Haus - the connotation that humans are in some sense the 'degenerate' species of chimpanzee is just what I'm ideally after).

By the way, Deva, as a chimpanzee, I am not, of course, anyone's monkey friend. Filthy creatures.

(More tomorrow)
 
 
Lurid Archive
09:59 / 17.12.02
Interesting. Now I can see the point of this,

even taxonomists espousing cladistics are anthropocentric, and the lumping of humans and chimps into the same genus will undoubtedly be a bitter pill for them to swallow

but I'm not sure how much it helps if ones pushes too hard in the other direction (from anthropocentric taxonomists). I mean, to attach value judgements like "inferior" to our species classification is just as anthropocentric as declaring superiority, just from the other side.

While I do think it valuable to see humans as animals, it is perverse to deny our uniqueness. So perverse, in fact, that it could only be regarded as a deliberate attempt to counter the opposite position. Again, this signals to anyone interested that humans require special treatment in the form of deprecation if not aggrandisement.
 
 
Cat Chant
12:39 / 17.12.02
Hello CyberChimp!

Haus - nudus can be used for "leafless" or "without turf" so I don't see why it couldn't be used for hairless, though I'll admit it might be more usual to have an ablative of respect in there somewhere. (I will also admit that I have just looked it up in Lewis & Short.) If it weren't for the importance of the hand I'd be quite tempted by Pan nudus, actually, since I notice it can also mean Stripped, spoiled, vacant, void, deprived, or destitute of, without and Poor, needy, destitute, forlorn. And, interestingly, without the toga, in one's tunic, which would be quite a cool intervention into the idea of the human as a political animal as brought in by Xoc... But this is all entirely beside the point.

Creepster, you are entirely right that it is disgusting to know Latin and Greek, but thankfully wrong that everybody does. Cf here.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:48 / 17.12.02
I just don't think that if you described somebody in latin as "nudus", you would successfully communicate that they were bald. Point being, that although it may be easy, it's only *that* easy if we can also say that "l'avion tousser" is French for "the plane took off"...

How about another compound, then? Manupauper, perhaps? Manucarens?
 
 
Cat Chant
13:00 / 17.12.02
Oh, absolutely, nudus does not connote baldness without some sort of jiggery-pokery - but the same goes for "naked" which as far as I can see in English does not immediately/intuitively connote hairlessness (and the phrase "the naked ape" is surely playing on the fact that humans are, in fact, the only kind of ape that wears clothes, and causing 'naked' to resignify so that this is no longer seen as superior technical sophistication but as compensation for a biological inferiority? Which is what would carry across interestingly into Latin where nudus can in fact mean "clothed but not marked as citi-zen/political entity by the wearing of the toga")

Sorry for calling you a monkey, btw, Cyberchimp. I just like using the word.
 
 
William Sack
13:15 / 17.12.02
I haven't much to add to this, but I have heaved out my massive Lewis & Short and see a citation for the ablative manu - "with the hand, i.e. artificially, opp. to naturally, by nature: manu sata, i.e. by the hand of man, opp. to what grows wild, Caes. B.C. 3,44." It also refers to "manu facta," which literally means "hand made" but can be used to connote elaborateness or artificiality. I guess that something like "pan manufactor" would be moving away from the mischief you were talking about, cyberchimp, though it does hint at something that I understand differentiates humans from chimps and other apes. They are far better at using their hands (and feet and tails) for swinging in the trees, but as far as I know, all they can make (or manufacture) is a grub-extractor from a twig.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:20 / 17.12.02
Hmmm...I think that emphasising the status of man as tool-user is precisely what CtberChimp is objecting to.

Deva: I take your point, and I ma relying on a web of textual and supertextual assumptions in chosing a particular definiton of "naked" in Grant's question. Isn't language *pretty*?
 
 
William Sack
13:31 / 17.12.02
Does anyone know whether humans are the only primates who have largely hairless backs to their hands? If so, then "pan nudimanus" might be an option.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:36 / 17.12.02
Except that Cyberchimp isn't trying to communicate general *difference*. Ze wants to express the idea that humans have a) fewer workable gripping appendages than other similar animals and b) that they have two hands (which I think is the less important element, myself - it doesn't really matter if Heidegger had one had or three, it matters that he was claiming that only humans could use the hand in the way described above), and as such c) should stop banging on about how superior and unlike other similar animals they are.
 
 
William Sack
14:33 / 17.12.02
Apologies, I rather lost the focus of the question. I think this is beyond me. It's quite a lot of meaning to cram into a word, even a compound word. I am just wondering if there might be an elegant word, to splice onto manu, which means "weak or understrength because of numerical inferiority" perhaps normally applied to an army or fighting force. If there is, then I'm damned if I can remember it, though I wouldn't put it past those ancients to have such a word. I'll think more, but frankly I'm stumped.
 
 
Persephone
14:40 / 17.12.02
How about dimidius? Diminished hands, you know? Dimidio manus.
 
 
Lurid Archive
14:58 / 17.12.02
What is the object here? I can see two differently inflected goals.

On the one hand, one could invent a classification which is deliberately negative in an attempt to shock taxonomists. Its probably quite satisfying to cause outrage in this way. That would only be offest by the inevitable dismissal of the points raised if one had serious hopes of pursuing those points.

On the other hand, one could argue that chimps and humans should be in the same genus as a realistic proposal that might challenge anthropomorphism. It don't think this would be consistent with a desire to disparage humans.

At the risk of being humourless, I'd say that I quite like the idea of the latter - if it pans out - but I think of the former as a bit of a waste.
 
 
CyberChimp
12:07 / 18.12.02
Absurd or not, Creepster, I can't help myself wanting to say that it simply is the case that humans are a species of chimpanzee. Whether or not one is inclined to say that they are a 'superior' or 'inferior' species depends, of course, on whether one wants to emphasise Shakespeare or Mills & Boon, 'civilization' or world war/genocide/factory farming, The Simpsons or...well, Shirley Manson. And my point, of course, is that we do live on a planet ruled by apes...unfortunately. I certainly don't want to deny human uniqueness, since all 'species', and indeed individuals, are unique (evolution depends on this, of course). I'd just like to move away from the idea that there's something extra special about humans, deriving from the mere fact that they are human. Demonstrating that 'humans' are one of three different species of chimpanzee seems like a good way of going about this. The mildly disparaging overtones I fancy are really just a playful dig at Heidegger more than anything else, since by pointing out that humans have two hands, I can simultaneously show that (a) they have two hands (not a single, unique, essential Hand), and (b) they have only two hands (as opposed to their handier relatives).

Regarding correct form for our new name, Jeffrey states that "the Codes of Nomenclature require that all scientific names be Latin in form, written in the Latin alphabet and subject to the rules of Latin grammar...even if, as is often the case, they are derived from other languages... The name of a species consists of the name of the genus in which the species is classified [which must be a singular noun, or adjective used as a noun, eg Primula] followed by a second term which is peculiar to the species, eg Equus caballus... The second term may be adjectival (in which case it must agree in gender with the generic name), a noun in apposition, or a noun (or rarely an adjective used as a noun) in the genitive case" (p9-11). I'm not entirely sure how this impacts on the choice of dative over nominative, and bow to the greater wisdom of Deva and Litte Haus.

So where have we got with the new Latin name? H.I.R.'s 'weak or understrength because of numerical inferiority' suggestion, especially with reference to an army or fighting force, seems particularly appropriate, given that other sense of manus (sense E, p615 in my ancient edition of L&S). And I love Little Haus' demibracchiatus - if only it were hands rather than arms. What are the final options being thrown into the ring?

PS Was that boy a certain Jacques Derrida, Little Haus?
 
 
grant
12:24 / 18.12.02
What will become of the other Homo species in this new taxonomy?
H. erectus & neanderthalensis and all them....
 
 
Persephone
12:32 / 18.12.02
*polite cough*

If someone would fix my Latin, I submit some form of dimidio manus which was my answer to H.I.R. I think dimidius is nice because it has a specific meaning of "less by half" and your human's hands are less by half --two-- compared to the normal number of four hands
 
  

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