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What is "The Black Sun"?

 
  

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21:00 / 12.12.02
First I heard of it mentioned in a song off Coil's first album "Scatology", called "Solar Lodge": "Let the Black Sun rise, over the solar lodge". Then it was mentioned again by Sir Miles in "The Invisibles". So what exactly is it? Does it refer to eclipses or something?
 
 
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21:03 / 12.12.02
actually, Coil had an article on their website about this, now that I remember, but it wasn't much help to me:

http://brainwashed.com/coil/writings/gnosis.html
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
21:11 / 12.12.02
The Black Sun was more or less invented by the IOT, it's an extension of their Chaosphere idea. I think there is an obscure Crowley comment about it somewhere.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
21:21 / 12.12.02
Oh, I looked up Kenneth Grant's Nightside of Eden in the chance that the Black Sun might have something to do with the Qlippoth reverse of The Sun/30th path, that being "Raflifu."

"...these ideas refer to a libation, and the sexual nature of this drink-offering is confirmed by the corresponding text in Liber CCXXXI: 'Then did the sun appear unclouded, and the mouth of Asi was on the mouth of Asar.' This refers to the twins, Set Horus, embracing and becoming one with the Black Sun (Osiris or Shaitan), the God of Crossing."

And then there's this: http://www.crystalinks.com/vril.html

But, basically, I haven't a fucking clue!
 
 
LVX23
23:37 / 12.12.02
Yes, "Osiris is a black god" and he is the sun on some levels. But the Black Sun may also refer to the inverted path, the opposite of a solar path, but not Lunar. It is a dark path of fire, as I understand, not necessarily one of evil by it's nature, but those who walk it would surely be tempted (or fall prey to it's darkness). I suppose this could be equated to the inverted pentagram, favoring matter over spirit, but I suspect this relation falls well short. I believe in Invisibles the Black Sun is related to the Black Lodge or Black Brotherhood - those who, in the material plane, are allied against the White Lodge. Beyond the material realm, Black and White take on less emotional terms (i.e. they become less associated with Good and Bad).

Black Sun is also the main Hacker hangout in Snow Crash.

My two bits...
 
 
JoeCrow
07:55 / 15.12.02
Actually, it's a Western Alchemical symbol. The Black Sun/Sol Nigredo refers to the part of the alchemical process where the materials used to make the Philosopher's Stone are allowed to ferment in darkness, before emerging into the light transformed and perfected. According to some, it's a metaphor for spiritual evolution, but what isn't?
 
 
cusm
17:37 / 17.12.02
Sounds like a lot of poetic reference to the underworld and the like. The sun that shines upon the land of the dead. That sort of thing.
 
 
the Fool
19:34 / 17.12.02
Perhaps the 'black sun' is just a reference to an eclipse. When the sun burns black and blinds the eye.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
05:46 / 01.04.04
I've a question about a black sun tattoo. I'm considering getting one... but am a little worried about the ramifications that it could have, given that a particular form of it had been appropriated by Nazi occultists. I'm wondering if there'll be bad juju attached...

Any thoughts?
 
 
macrophage
06:44 / 01.04.04
I'd agree that it somehow symbolises nigredo the so called blackening in the alchemical furnace of metamorphosis - on the long process to attainment of gold pure solar conciousness. I suppose it signifies coming to terms with and aligning with the darkness within. I suppose Jungians would call it the Shadow. "Legion of the Black Sun" which you can download from Dagon Productions seems like a well good read - for chaote students. Burroughs, Collage/Camera magick, S & M Magick, etc... I've heard there is a Nicholas Goodriche Clarke book called the Black Sun which investigates the so-called links of the far-right to some sections of the occult - never seen it, most of these nazis and the occult books I've came across carry similar content - the Holly Sklar book I've got launches into Scientology and the Moonies and you just wonder "Huh!?".
 
 
macrophage
07:21 / 01.04.04
Check this out it's worth a gander:

http://www.alchemywebsite.com/I-blksun.html

When I think "Eclipse" I think John Shirley the jack of all trades and great friend of William Gibson. Also I think of that rock band from the 70s or the 80s?!

The last major solar eclipse that we experienced in 1999 heralded a new paradigm shift, in conjunction with the 11 year solar cycles.

In the "Towards 2012" book it was hinted that we have entered a period encompassing the "storm" - that is, a kickback against liberalism and sitting on the fence. What do people think of this? Apologies for the lack of netiquette and the double posting!
 
 
Lionheart
13:31 / 01.04.04
This thread needs a topic abstract. Should I add one or...?
 
 
Potguns
16:16 / 01.04.04
I always thought black suns were like black holes. Wheras a Star gives out energy to the universe a black hole does the opposite. The ying and yang of the universe if you will. Just my opinion tho...
 
 
LVX23
16:23 / 01.04.04
Check out the Moon card... The Black Sun can be understood as the midnight sun that is carried through the underworld on the back of Kephra the scrab beetle.

RE: Tattoos...Here's one of mine:

 
 
macrophage
19:43 / 01.04.04
Is this what people mean by the Moon existing as the true power behind the Sun that was in "Liber Null"?
 
 
macrophage
11:04 / 06.04.04
Scatologically speaking the black sun probablly refers to the anus.
 
 
De Selby
13:40 / 06.04.04
Perhaps the 'black sun' is just a reference to an eclipse. When the sun burns black and blinds the eye.

Thats what I always thought Sir Miles was talking about. The "final showdown" of the whole series happens during an eclipse.
 
 
Z. deScathach
07:39 / 10.04.04
There is an interesting link here.
 
 
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19:31 / 19.12.04
Could this be linked to Sirius in anyway? The Black (hidden, occulted) Sun that some Magicians believe powers our own?

I need to get the Sirius Mystery again, that had some really bizarro stuff right at the end.
 
 
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20:54 / 19.12.04
This thread has an odd habit of resurfacing every few months or so...
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
15:23 / 20.12.04
We are all children, we are all children, we are all children of the Black Sun.
 
 
pornotaxi
16:26 / 20.12.04
 
 
Sekhmet
16:36 / 20.12.04
Black hole sun, won't you come
And wash away the raaaaain...
 
 
pornotaxi
16:40 / 20.12.04
BLACK SUN, The Brief Transit and Violent Eclipse of Harry Crosby

much cheapness
 
 
Logos
23:36 / 20.12.04


"The Black Sun sheds darkness instead of light (if darkness were a substance instead of absence), and is rolled across the sky by the hind feet of the divine scarab Khefri. By its unlight, the visible becomes hidden and the secret becomes known."
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
05:25 / 21.12.04
As I recall, the Black Sun has some central facets in the beliefs of the Vril Society, which was one of the predecessors to Nazi occultism and the Thule Society.

Mind that what I'm saying is something I read years back, so feel free to flame my ass off if my info is off.

As I recall, the story goes something like this:

In the beginning of the world, there were three great civilizations (it might have been 5): The Atlantians, the Lemurians, and the Aryans. IIRC, they each used different power sources. Somewhere in there, one of them harnessed Vril energy, which was based on radiation from a black sun. And then I think the Atlanteans went along and blew themselves to hell, which Atlanteans are wont to do. Then I think it went into Babel from there. After that it basically just seemed to dribble into Nazi propaganda, IIRC. Like I said, its been years since I read about it, so its very likley that I'm either completly wrong, or with big gaps in my knowledge.

The term "Black Sun" doesn't nessecarily evoke evil imagery to me. Rather, it evokes a sense of mysterious energy. An alternative energy. You could easily say that the "energies of the Black Sun" is just another funky term for mystical energies, depending on how one works their magic.

There's a certain sense of ancient science to it.

I have an image of a great machine wrought out of black iron and dead wood in an underground land inhabited by the dead. Radiation from the black sun sitting in the great holder radiates out and defines the shape of the dead, just as the light of Sol defines the shapes of the world around us. Power harnessed on different rules of physics. The light in the realm of the kingdom of shadows.

Ok, and now I don't think I'm really making a whole lot of sense.
 
 
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05:48 / 21.12.04
Oh my God, this has made my latest insomnia a blessing in disguise. I was just on the band Tool's site today, and of course a few minutes ago I had to do the inevitable and google 'the black sun sirius'.

I ended up back at Tools newsletter page. Look what I got :

'TIMOTHY LEARY'S SIGNATURE
An
Observation
By
Blair MacKenzie Blake

It was while looking at the way Dr. Timothy Leary signed the 23 drawings that are featured in a display at THE LIGHT SPACE GALLERY in Venice, California, that I first noticed that the slashes across the 'T' and 'L' made the letters look almost identical to the 'runes' in a highly controversial and often misunderstood occult symbol known as "The Black Sun."

Although the number 23 is connected with the star Sirius and Dr. Leary's "Starseed Transmissions" (those received during the 'dog days' of 1973), which concerns a mystery* that involves Sirius's dark companion (prosaically called Sirius B) - a 'black sun' known to various initiatory orders as "the sun behind the sun" and "The Hidden God", I couldn't help but wonder if he (Leary) hadn't tuned into the even more esoteric concept of the Black Sun. In this case, the Black Sun symbolized the spiritual luminosity that is buried deep within the bowels of the earth. Here, "bowels of the earth" is a coded al-Khem-ical phrase for both the void of creation and another (hidden) dimension of consciousness called "Universe B." Just as Sirius B is invisible to the naked eye (first photographed in the 1970s), the Black Sun of occult tradition is invisible to ordinary human perception. But to those who somehow do perceive it, this Black Sun serves as a beacon of the other side - that which humankind should seek via Da'ath (the so-called 'false sephira') on the Qabalistic Tree of Life, which is the gateway that leads to the shadow-side of the Tree. Interestingly enough, in light of Dr. Leary's ideas about the transmutation of consciousness from our "linear terrestrial circuits of the nervous system to the future circuits", the other side of the Tree of Life is usually related to the future.

So, was the veil lifted? Did Timothy Leary encode in his idiosyncratic signature the belief that he had perceived the shining darkness of this occult Black Sun with its orbit of mystery (again like Sirius B) via the Starseed Transmissions (or from other experiments he conducted)? This esoteric Black Sun which shall transform humankind spiritually when the 'Eye' is opened.

Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem

* This concerns the incredible knowledge of the Dogon tribe in Mali, Africa, who, according to some researchers, know specific details relating to the astro-physics (including periodicity and weight) of the Sirius system.'

http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2003_04.php
 
 
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05:53 / 21.12.04
Oh yeah, Bard that's interesting, when I originally googled 'black sun occult' I got heaps of that Nazi Vril stuff too. I guess that was one of their obsessions, harnessing the power of the black sun. They really where after doing a proper number on us all by the looks of things, military and occult style.
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:04 / 21.12.04
The Vril Force or Vril Energy was said to be derived from the Black Sun, a big ball of "Prima Materia" which supposedly exists in the center of the Earth, giving light to the Vril-ya and putting out radiation in the form of Vril. The Vril Society believed that Aryans were the actual biological ancestors of the Black Sun.

This force was known to the ancients under many names, and it has been called Chi, Ojas, Vril, Astral Light, Odic Forces and Orgone. In a discussion of the 28th degree of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry—called Knight of the Sun or Prince Adept— Albert Pike said, "There is in nature one most potent force, by means whereof a single man, who could possess himself of it, and should know how to direct it, could revolutionize and change the face of the world."

the vril stuff and black sun stuff is from _ the power of the coming race by Sir Edward Bulwer-Lytton, a huge influence on occultism during that period and post until today.
 
 
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06:17 / 21.12.04
I just ended up at a Masonic site a minute or so ago looking for the translation to that latin :

VISITA INTERIORA TERRA RECTIFICANDO INVENIES OCCULTUM LAPIDEM: Visit the interior of the earth and rectifying (i.e. purifying) you will find the hidden stone.

http://www.freemasonry.org/leonzeldis/VITRIOL.htm
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:20 / 21.12.04
The idea of mutation and transformation into a higher form of a "god-man" was envisioned, through the Vril-ya, in Buller-Lytton's The Coming Race. Lytton, himself, was an initiate of the Rosicrucians and was well versed in the arcane-esoteric philosophies (and of course the greatest advances in the sciences of his day). "Through his romantic works of fiction he expressed the conviction that there are beings endowed with superhuman powers. These beings will supplant us and bring about a formidable mutation in th elect of the human race."(J. Bergier)
 
 
Unconditional Love
06:36 / 21.12.04
The coming race pdf
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
06:48 / 21.12.04

VISITA INTERIORA TERRA RECTIFICANDO INVENIES OCCULTUM LAPIDEM: Visit the interior of the earth and rectifying (i.e. purifying) you will find the hidden stone.


Dodgy translation. I *assume* that "visita interiora terra" is supposed to be an ablative absolute, so "once you have visited the interior Earth", maybe. "visito" is a pretty odd choice as well, but that's acronyms for you.

"Vril" provides the active element in "bovril". "Bo-" - beef. "Vril" - energy. Beef energy. Fact.
 
 
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18:07 / 21.12.04
Yes it is a strange translation. I thought it was all Latin, but none of the words would translate in an online dictionary. (which I really don't get, I thought Terra was Earth at least, it's possible that online Latin to English wasn't working well, but I don't know) I'd already figured that it was 'visit inner earth' terra being earth here, and that occultum lapidem would be hidden stone, I think from the lapis being used for stone (lapis lazuli etc). I was stuck with rectificando the most and when I googled it I was getting Spanish pages, but again it didn't translate in an online Spanish to English.

It's possibe that if it originated from Masonry that some of these words deliberately got changed and obscured a little more though.
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
20:02 / 21.12.04
"Vril" provides the active element in "bovril". "Bo-" - beef. "Vril" - energy. Beef energy. Fact.

This is why I love it here, lol.

I can just see this post-Atlantean sorcer holding up a glowing, carved stone idol in the form of a cow and shouting: "Behold, you primitive savages, the power of the BEEF! Bow before my beefy might!"
 
  

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