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Lone Wolf and Cub

 
  

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grant
16:46 / 12.12.02
A friend of mine got me buying these when First Comics first released issues of this saga (out of order and far from complete) in the late 80s/early 90s. They were cool, in a samurai, chop-em-up kind of way.

And now, he came back to town with the new Dark Horse reprints - in order, in manga style release, with accompanying glossaries and essays in the back of each issue.

And they're absolutely brilliant. The series starts out as a typical Yojimbo/Fistful of Dollars-who's-the-baddest-bastard action story, but twists its way into something entirely above that.
Plot, pacing, character - gorgeous landscapes (watercolor?) - cinematic pans, dollies, crossfades... and lectures, both verbal and visual, on religious concepts like "mu," or elements of Confucianism and the bushido code.

The code is everything in Lone Wolf & Cub - and it's a lot more complex than you might expect. The code makes them monsters, and they embrace that.

Anyone else blown away by these things? It might help that I've gotten all of them as a big stack and am reading them day and night.



On the net, I've found this interview with the creators, Kazuo Koike & Goseki Kojima, done by their biggest fan in American comics, Frank Miller. It's from 1987.

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excerpt: FRANK: What struck me first about your artwork on LONE WOLF was the combat scenes, so full of motion and power. You seem to break the figures into streaks, emphasizing movement over the careful depiction of form. I wish I could sit with you and talk about this in person, since among the many virtues of your work, it is the one that has affected me the most profoundly, but since I can't, let me ask you to speak on this most thrilling and original aspect of your work. Was this the product of careful theory, or did it seem to you, from the beginning, the only proper way to capture the grace and speed of warriors in combat?

KOJIMA: You draw the picture by your own nerve. You have to be a Lone Wolf. Every human being is not created equal. Comics can't be taught in school. Of course, you will use your arm best but -- if I must -- I don't mind using my foot. Absolutely and entirely, it will depend upon your expressive nerve. Even if you become my assistant for 20 years, you will only be a copy man. The publisher often comments to young artists, "bring your individual character!" But that's easy because everyone has that. I know a brilliant comic artist who became an assistant to a famous artist, and now the master gives him a direction and everyone else copies from the chief assistant. The creativity stops right there, all the pictures start to level off the same.

In my case, I draw alone at the edge, fearing that someone, some day, will surpass me. So, naturally my drawing has a tendency for the growth momentum. If I ever wear down, the pictures will become dull and low tone. Even my publisher will try to pursue me -- it will be my time to resign. I'll be worn out. So you must be kidding. I can't draw the picture the same all the time. In fact, my problem is how to draw a character continuously the same throughout the story!

KOIKE: Also, Japanese comics move in a frame. The eye moves in Japanese comics. That's the fundamental difference between Japanese and American comics. American comics have a tendency to stay within a frame, and a frame stands individually. Japanese comics have a tendency for one frame to interfere with the next frame, running sequentially. When Superman flies in the sky, if it's drawn in one single frame, that's a still picture. In Japanese comics, a character will fly in three frames while focused on head, body, and foot. That's, I should say, the difference of production point-of-view, and I think without changing such a view of basic principles, American comics will face further decline.

-----------------------

The following two-page image sums it up nicely. The text is all but unreadable, but basically Itto Ogami is explaining to his three-year-old son Daigoro (named for "Daiga" or "enlightenment") how if either of them die, they are to look to the moon, to eliminate the difference between the self and moon, and their lost person will be there:


Check it out.
 
 
bio k9
17:17 / 12.12.02
Yeah, these are great. I only have the first dozen but now that they have them at Borders I can get the rest for about $6 each so it shouldn't be long before I get the rest. Maybe we should pick one for the next comic club discussion?
 
 
Jack Fear
17:24 / 12.12.02
Whenever I return from one of my increasingly-infrequent trips to the comics shop, my wife (who's not a reglar comics reader) will snatch the latest volume of LONE WOLF AND CUB from my hands.

This is the highest recommendation I can muster.

Although the writing can be very lyrical and profound, as in the example Grant reproduces above, LONE WOLF AND CUB is also perhaps the finest example of sheer visual storytelling in the medium. Long sequences are completely silent, and you always know exactly what's going on. It is, in the best sense, cinematic.

It is also, despite its emphatically Japanese subject matter and philosophies, very accessible for gaijin. There's none of the weird distortion or inexplicable iconography that makes much manga baffling to non-Japanese readers—the art is naturalistic Western-styled cartooning.

D and I are still working our way through the first third of the series (which runs to 28 fat paperbacks), and the story's still in its picaresque/episodic phase—the creators are just ringing variations on that wonderfully simple premise, and you keep thinking it's going to get dull or predictable—"Let me guess, Ogami's going to assassinate someone"—but through sheer craft and skill and research, these different improvisations on that same old tune keep flying by, each one different, each emotionally-resonant in a different way, most of them powerfully affecting.

In every volume of LONE WOLF AND CUB there has been at least one point where I needed to put down the book and take a few deep breaths. This stuff is the gold standard.
 
 
moriarty
17:27 / 12.12.02
Haha. I just pm'd Grant complaining that Lone Wolf and Cub was one of the books we were considering for the club. and he ruined it! Just teasing, chief.

I'd jump right into this conversation but unfortunately my old First editions were lent out and I still haven't replaced them. I'd hate to go on memory alone.

Has anyone seen the Baby Cart Assassin, the film version of this manga? Or Road to Perdition, which was an American retelling of this story? And how would you compare Lone Wolf and Cub to Blade of the Immortal, or even Usagi Yojimbo?
 
 
grant
17:28 / 12.12.02
Jack: Have you gotten to any of the stories where >Daigoro< is the main character? There's a sequence in there where the two are separated, and a couple stories focusing on what it's like to be the silent bushi child waiting for Papa to come back from an assignment. Since he basically can't talk very well yet, silence becomes a key storytelling element.

Oh, and moriarty: I have a huge stack of the First releases - I haven't reread them, but I don't remember them being as good as this.
I've been told that they were released out of the original order, and I read at one of the links up there that the company folded around issue 43, encapsulating 45 chapters of a work that is over 100 chapters long. The Dark Horse releases are so nice.

anyone: Who knows why the pages seem to shift from watercolor to pen&ink sort of arbitrarily in some issues?
 
 
Jack Fear
17:42 / 12.12.02
Oh, yeah. Several of them. And my heart just fucking bleeds for Daigoro.
 
 
Persephone
17:44 / 12.12.02
[meta]

The secret to the comic "club" that moriarty and I are doing is that we're working on the it-takes-two principle, sort of like how Book Partners was supposed to work. I've found in Books that the hardest part about the book club is the cat-herding part. There's also a diffusion of responsibility *guiltily thinking about Malory* that makes it hard to keep things together. So the idea is, all it takes is two people to agree together on a book & they're, like, the core of that discussion. So there can be multiple discussions going on at any given time. At its best, it ought to be a perfect example of anarchy.

[/meta]
 
 
moriarty
18:06 / 12.12.02
Grant and Jack, if someone wasn't able to pick up the majority of the series in one go but would still like a taste, what would you recommend?
 
 
Jack Fear
18:24 / 12.12.02
Start at the beginning--volume 1. Tells you everything you need to know.
 
 
moriarty
18:52 / 12.12.02
Makes sense, and I plan on picking it up, but Grant warned me that it doesn't start getting really good until near the end of Book 1. Aside from setting up the story by purchasing Book 1, is it possible to read the best issues without following the books that precede it? For example, Shade the Changing Man didn't get realy good until the Road and Hotel Shade and I think it might be possible, though not preferable, to get a lot out of it without having to read the American Scream run.

In short, what would be your favourite three books. Or is it even possible to break it up that way?

What do you guys think about the new format, the small yet thick books? I'm receiving the first six Astro Boys in the same format soon.
 
 
videodrome
19:12 / 12.12.02
Technically, I guess it's not a 'new' format, as this is the way this material was originally published. I think it's perfect, small pages tightly packed with detail that still manages to flow so simply and beautifully.

This is great stuff, and belongs on the 'essential reading' list. Does every US Borders carry them for $6? That's waaaay better than $10. I'm gonna hit the one down the street from my hotel now.

There are six films, all of which are quite good, despite the fact that all seem to follow the 'obligatory rape sequence' pattern of Samurai film. Spectacularly bloody stuff, these films, held together by Tomisaburo Wakayama's performance as Itto, and the kid that plays Daigoro is also great.

Parts from two of these films were re-assembled by a western distributor as Shogun Assassin, which remains most people's introduction to the films. Two other films were later recut as Lupine Wolf. No, that title doesn't make any sense. SA is worth seeing mainly because of a magnificently creepy voiceover by Daigoro. SA and all six films are available on DVD in the UK, but not yet in the US. Samurai Cinema remastered and retranslated these for US laserdisc years ago (the origin of my copies) and is promising them on DVD soon. I can't wait. In the meantime there are the UK and/or Japanese versions available.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:29 / 12.12.02
Each volume contains several fairly-self-contained stories, Moriarty, and you can pick up the premise from nearly any of them.

Hmmm... of the early volumes, I guess I'd recommend Volume 5, "Black Wind" the most: the title story is tremendously affecting—perhaps my favorite single LW&C story so far—and "The Guns of Sakai" sets up some hints for the future.

I love the format, myself: it's the kind of thing you can read on the bus or the plane without attracting funny looks—the looks you do attract are looks of fascination and admiration. And they're just the right size to stick in yr hip pocket to read as you wait in line at the grocery store.

I'm not mad about the Frank Miller covers, though.
 
 
bio k9
19:39 / 12.12.02
Does every US Borders carry them for $6?

Er, no. Sorry. I have a friend that works there and they have 40% off day for employees once every few months.
 
 
bio k9
19:44 / 12.12.02
Book two has The Gateless Barrier which is as good as any.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
20:09 / 12.12.02
Gah... Why couldn't this discussion have popped up earlier in the week and reminded me how good this stuff is...before I sold my whole Lone Wolf And Cub set on eBay?!? Damn my no-money-havin' ass...
 
 
videodrome
21:12 / 12.12.02
Ah, I figured it was something like that, Bio. I found a bunch on supreme discount a while back, so really can't complain.

And I've enjoyed the covers by Matt Wagner and now Bill Sienkiwickisheoisiz, or however you spell his name....his are really nice on the later volumes.
 
 
The Strobe
21:14 / 12.12.02
I've had a look at many in Borders over here (UK), and they do look wonderful; I love the art and, well, the whole thing in general. One problem: at £7.99 a book, they're not cheap, as I can rip through them relatively fast. But still, wonderful things if you've got the cash. Just beautiful.
 
 
Knodge - YOUR nemesis!
23:46 / 12.12.02
These are absolutely beautiful books. Dark Horse has done very well publishing it in this smaller format. It was originally published in Japan in this format, correct?

The artwork is stunning. I feel it envelops the reader in the spirit of the story beautifully.

I was lucky enough to pick up each book for $10 Canadian a month. A very small price to pay for, what is to me, one of the greatest pieces of graphic fiction ever written/illustrated.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:15 / 13.12.02
Little to add, except I agree entirely; started reading the First reprints when they came out, but had to drop for finance reasons, and now I’m so glad that we can read the entire series in order without cuts or anything else like that. Nice work Dark Horse.

There was an article Alan Moore (“The Importance of Being Frank”) wrote in the old UK Marvel title ‘The Daredevils’ in about 1982 or so about the influence of this strip on Frank Miller’s work, which got me interested back then, and now, best part of 2 decades on, it’s good to see it.

And I love the format – perfect for taking in a pocket or whatever. I assume DH are going to be keeping them in print as long as sales stay good (and I hear they’ve been the best selling GNs for several months in a row) ?

DBC
 
 
Jack Fear
12:24 / 13.12.02
Word on the newswires, as of yesterday, is that Volume 1 just broke 50,000 copies sold.

For a pricey translated manga with no advertising and no media tie-ins, that ain't too shabby: and it's all down to good word-of-mouth.
 
 
grant
20:20 / 14.12.02
That's excellent news.
Today I just realized that my buddy didn't bring (what I think are) the last two books in the series. And man, I need more. I need to know how it ends.

moriarty: In short, what would be your favourite three books. Or is it even possible to break it up that way?

Not really. There's a progressing story arc that starts at the end of the first book and continues through to the end of the last book.

The deal is (and I don't think any of this counts as SPOILER material):
Itto Ogami was the Shogun's "second" - when a daimyo (territorial governor) was sentenced to commit seppuku for dishonoring himself or the Shogun (who's practically a divinity in the social order), Itto's the guy who lopped off his head after he'd disemboweled himself. This made him one of the three most influential members of the 17th century Japanese court - the other two being the leader of the Yagyu assassins and the leader of the Kurokuwa spies (the o-niwaban, or "garden wardens"... ninjas, in other words).
All three are bushi, devoted entirely to the warrior code of bushido, but they've each got different interpretations of the code. Itto, as you might expect, is the most straightforward - most of the time.
The story is kicked off when the Yagyu leader, a cagy, foxy old swordmaster, gets Itto exiled so that the Yagyu clan will control executions AND assassinations. Itto and his toddler son decide to follow the path of meifumado, a Buddhist version of Hell, and become masterless bushi-for-hire in order to stay true to the code while exacting revenge on the Yagyu.
That is, the entire clan.
And anyone who comes between him and the Yagyu.
Each book has six or seven chapters in it (these are what were originally published as separate issues by First). So sometimes (moreso early in the series), a few chapters will be tales of an assassination contracts with little or no mention of the Yagyu plot. Some, however, will be more concerned with what he's discovering about the Yagyu - as well as being a master swordsman, Itto Ogami is something of a detective, too.
There's also a run in there where the Yagyu start sending other clans against Itto to try to get him.
And where I'm at, from around #20 onward, it's all in Edo (the capital city), Everything is about the overarching plot, just about, and a vile, non-bushi villain enters the picture. The dynamic is very similar to The Good, The Bad & The Ugly, where there's this complex set of relationships - only in this case, there's a shogun around as well... supposedly, the living embodiment of the code. (The book doesn't say that outright, but that's how I'm reading him thus far.)
So it's easy to not know what the hell is going on.
And if you start reading after, oh, issue 10 or so, you'll still be setting yourself up for some major spoilers. The stories will carry you through, though, and every volume has at least one chapter in it that will blow you away on its own steam.
 
 
ThomasMunkholt
09:19 / 15.12.02
About the format: A couple of years ago a friend of mine showed me a Japanese copy, and the way I remember it, it was slightly larger than Dark Horse's version (ie. more like the usual manga-size). So I took "presented in its original format" to mean "in its entirety and chronological order". But I'm not completely sure ...
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:45 / 16.12.02
I'd still say start at book 1 and read in order, cos whilst the main arc doesn't really start to kick in until the end of the first volume -its impact is probably hightened by the slow boil and you're depriving yourself of the brilliant sense of pacing if you go straight to the really good bits.
 
 
grant
16:14 / 16.12.02
So I took "presented in its original format" to mean "in its entirety and chronological order". But I'm not completely sure ...

Also, apparently manga are read from right to left, cuz if you notice, In the English-language release, all the swordmasters are left-handed. They apparently flopped the artwork to get it to work.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:29 / 16.12.02
They apparently flopped the artwork to get it to work.

That is exactly what they did, yes--with the blessing of the creators, by the way (well, of the writer, who is still alive: the artist passed away some years ago, I believe).

It's universal--in every culture that has comics, the reading track of images is the same reading track as for words. Written Japanese is read right to left, so the panels read right to left, as well.

There's a trend now to release translated manga with unflopped art--most of Tokyopop's releases, and the new newsstand anthologies SHONEN JUMP and RAIJIN, are presnted in this format. It's a hybrid system, really--you read each individual balloon left-to-right, but the page as a whole reads right-to-left--but it seems a little odd to me. You're constantly flip-flopping your eye-motions, in forward Z's and backward Z's: it seems like an unreasonable amount of work. I find I instinctively prefer flopped art.
 
 
nuberty
11:39 / 01.01.03
i've just reread the whole series in preperation for the final volume coming out tomorrow. The insight gained in reading this a second time as a 28 chapter novel are enormous. It becomes clear that every story is integral to the over all epic and the use of a whole story just to examine a character nuance make for characters with huge depths. It's interesting that i'm not anticipating the ending so much. It seems that the characters are now interacting solely on what honour dictates they do, merely going through the steps of a dance they already know. I would recommend to read this series all at once over a couple of days to really immerse and understand the characters.
 
 
Harhoo
09:54 / 14.01.03
Right; so I’ve just finished the final volume to Lone Wolf And Cub and it fair near brought a tear to my eye, and not just ‘cos I realised I’ve spent £210 on it over the years. Now, I’m a big fan of narrative ambiguity, but after two and a half years I feel a strong need to wrestle with the ending. So basically:

[Pretty Big Spoilers Below Obviously]
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I’m conflicted over why Retsudo (presumably) allows Diagoro to wound him at the end. Is the wound fatal or just a flesh wound to show respect for Diagoro, mirroring an earlier volume where Lone Wolf allows himself to be wounded out of respect for an inferior swordsman? I’m reluctant to accept that it’s simply the case he’s surprised by Diagoro’s speed and skill.

Retsudo’s repeatedly stated that he’s going to kill Diagoro, and in his battle with Ogami Itto he’s stressed the need for him to survive in order to rebuild his clan. Why, then, would he allow himself to be impaled? Does he kill Diagoro – who is very limp in the last couple of panels?

The only satisfying explanation (and by satisfying I really don’t mean narratively or thematically but satisfying for me as a moral and emotional reader) is that, in front of the amassed groups of opposing samurai, Retsudo welcomes the sacrifice of himself in order to perfect the tableau of bushido – a concept which Lone Wolf implies is being lost and which is sort of backed up by the ‘grandson of my heart’ line.

Any other thoughts? Could it conceivably have ended with both Lone Wolf and Cub dead and a, mildly injured, Retsudo free to rebuild the Yagyu? And, bearing in mind my total reluctance to accept this, can I ever complain about happy-happy-joy-joy Hollywood endings again?
 
 
The Natural Way
11:15 / 14.01.03
I am so looking forward to going to the comic shop and buying all this stuff now. ALL of it in the world ever. Seriously though, (I love horse-sex) the idea of getting my greasy mitts on Lone Wolf's been buzzing around my head for months now and you lot have just clinched it. Goodbye money.
 
 
ThomasMunkholt
11:57 / 14.01.03
Yep, the ending was very emotional for me as well ... really looking forward to reading it all in one go.

I think Retsudo wanted to display a tableau, as you say - an end to the feud that would satisfy all parts of the conflict, while demonstrating his - and his opponent's - sense of budo.

He calls Daigoro "son of my heart" (or something), and I think that he means to adopt (or whatever one did in those days) Daigoro. As he has stated previously, he has no family left of his own to rebuild the clan. But Daigoro needed his stab (sorry) at revenge, or the feud would live on - Retsudo needs to accept death as a real possibility. Daigoro seems unhurt, so my guess is that he is accepting Retsudo as his new father.

But like I said, I still need to read it all again.

Awesome series.
 
 
Harhoo
13:25 / 14.01.03
[Still spoilers for the end of the book]
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Hmm. Mocca, I think this would be the most unacceptable ending for me as a reader. Retsudo's killed Diagoro's mum (while he was still in the womb!), hunted his dad in various non-honourable ways, finally killing him - not in the one on one combat promised but after he's had to fight off 50 Yagyu the night before - and now he's calling him 'grandson of his heart' and adopting him?

I can see how that could be what happens but I'm rather unhappy about it. I can see that in Lone Wolf and Cub's death they could achieve a sort of victory - everybody is now suspicious of the Yagyu; most people believe in Oggami Itto's innocence; the Emperor's position is weakened. But if Diagoro is the adopted heir and helps to recreate the clan that did for his parents? Well, for me that matches King Lear and Electra for bleakness of ending. Which is sort of cool I s'ppose.

One thing; I did reread the first issue in the first volume, and it's amazing how poor and basic it is compared to the final ones. Which is not to say it's bad, just nowhere near as well written and as rich. Does anybody know what timespan the comics were written over? It must have been, what, 15 years?
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
17:57 / 23.04.03
Does anyone know anything about a follow-on to this series? I was at home at the weekend and my father had picked up volume one from Ian the local comic man - wish I'd written down the details now. It was called, I think, Lone Wolf 2001, and featured an 'emcon' travelling through a future world infected by a Spore virus, trying to protect the daughter of his former employer (who he had assassinated on orders) from those who want to catch her because she's carrying another virus (I think). It said that it had been written with Koike's input. I thought it was really beautiful... I think there were stacks of volumes as well.
 
 
bio k9
18:26 / 23.04.03
If you have any interest in Lone Wolf and Cub 2001 you should check out Grendel: War Child.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
23:30 / 23.04.03
Is that one done by those Czech guys?
 
 
molotovwaiting
00:07 / 24.04.03
if your refering to Grendel: warchild, that was done by matt wagner. if your thinking of another Grendel tale done by some european guys, there was Grendel Tales: Devils and Deaths by a couple of croatian guys
Darko Macan & Edvin Biukovic (which is in itself a great analogy of the war in croatia)
 
 
bio k9
09:32 / 24.04.03
Warchild has the whole stoic warrior/silent young child on a mission/ being chased thing going on. IMO its one of the best Grendel arcs as well as a good place to start if you've never read a Grendel comic before.

Preview Here.
 
  

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