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Fat.

 
  

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Dee Vapr
13:25 / 17.08.01
I'm sick. I'm sick of being 17 stone. I'm sick of being tacitly ignored. I'm sick of a tacitly faschistic clothes industry, constructed for waifs and a sense of self-hate. I'm sick of my weight being a banner, a yardstick, the root of appearances, a message that is far from the truth. I'm sick of seeing these reverse deformed hardbodies wherever I go nowadays. I'm sick of the utopian future and the horribly victorian body/present conflicting in my muddled mind. I'm sick of being sidestepped in the street, the way it's more difficult to make new friends, nowadays. I'm sick of not being able to manage my weight alone , an endless procession of diets, exercises programmes, without the active gaze of others. I'm sick of the adolescent way this makes me feel, the adolescent way it makes me talk, the nervousness creeping into sexual congress.

I mean, I will lose weight.

I'm just sick of being judged, is all.

Is fatness a stigma in the magnitude of race, sexuality, religion, age - is it worthy of an ism?

Is it the last taboo, a place for compassion, correctness? Or rather, the opposite; a bloated example of a tragically sinful western climate of gluttony, greed?

these are the facts of life?

[ 17-08-2001: Message edited by: Dee Vapr ]
 
 
Dee Vapr
13:49 / 17.08.01
This was supposed to be some grandiose statement on the subject, but I haven't enough sleep, and so it isn't.

<yawns>
 
 
Ierne
14:24 / 17.08.01
Dee:

It's Society that's sick, mate.

I haven't weighed myself since the last time I saw a doctor (1993). I have learned not to give a shit if people think I'm "too big" or "take up too much space". It can be very difficult to accept one's body shape as it is when Society demands that everyone resemble overgrown children, but the challenge is well worth it.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
15:13 / 17.08.01
Dee-

I know exactly how you feel. *hugs*

Between the ages of 6 and 17 I was obese. I really think it stemmed from being molested by my neighbor when I was 5, because I distinctly remember that that's when I started overeating. (Probably too much information but I'm not shy, and I've dealt with that incident extensively and have healed, I'd say.)

I was constantly teased and harrassed, every single year in school there'd be some new group of kids who'd decide to make fun of me for my weight. I would usually get mad enough to confront them eventually but it was still painful. And naturally like all the other girls, I wanted to be pretty, I wanted the boys to like me, etc.

I used to come home from school and play dressup and look at myself in the mirror and think, "If only they could SEE.. if only they could SEE that I'm actually very pretty.." (I've never been the modest sort!) I'd have crushes on boys but I never dared acknowledge them. Who'd want to go out with a fat girl?

Anyway, in the fall of my senior of high school, I started losing weight. It all started relatively calmly; I'd dealt with some of my reasons for being fat, I had learned to control my overeating, and I just felt like I was ready to get rid of my "armor." I changed my eating habits somewhat, and started exercising. Over the next year, I lost over 70 pounds.

And the change in attitude I got was A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!!!! I can honestly say that it took me a good three years after I lost the weight to come to grips with the fact that not only was I now a "thin" person, but that's how people treated me differently.

And they really did. I'll never forget this one time at work in the breakroom when this guy was going on about how much he hated "fat chicks." Naturally I was defending "fat chicks," but in my head I was like "He really doesn't know. He REALLY doesn't know that I'm 'one of them.'"

The biggest thing to get used to was male attention which I NEVER, EVER got before I lost weight, and once I did I got it ALL THE TIME. It made me really uncomfortable at first. And it made me really mad, too. Because I was the same girl I had been; I had the same personality; I was just thinner.

I did eventually get used to it, though. And what I found is beauty really in many ways about "attitude." I know that's a cliche, but it's true. I managed to keep all of the weight off that I'd lost for nearly a decade. Then about three years ago, I went through an incredibly stressful period in my life and gained about 40 pounds. I am only NOW managing to lose it. But I'd say it's actually taken that long to heal from the traumas that happened so long ago now, and to be in a place where I'm "ready. BUt even weighing more than I'd like, I still think my body is pretty damn sexy. And that definitely attracts people to me.

Society definitly pushes women to be thinner than I personally would ever want to be. I know it's hard, and I know how cruel people can be. The bottom line, cheesy as it is, is never forget how beautiful your own body is, right now. You really can be sexy at any size.

Yes I know how cheesy that sounds. But hey, if you ever wanna talk about this some more, feel free to email me or private message me.

 
 
Ierne
16:07 / 17.08.01
Like Cherry, I was a really big kid as well. I was also quite large in my late twenties. Ever since I started working at my present job (1.75 years) my weight has gone down a bit; I attribute that more to lack of stress than any conscious behavior on my part.

In my early twenties I lost a very close friend due to bulimia (she died choking on her own vomit). I learned that being skinny ain't worth shit if you're dead.

I agree with CB that attitude goes a long way, both in how you deal with other people's negativity and (much more importantly) how you deal with your own self-image. I have 2 ladyfriends, both in the 250 -275 lb range. They never lack for sex, companionship or positive attention. This is because they know that they are fabulous, creative & sexy, and people respond in kind.
 
 
Dee Vapr
17:35 / 17.08.01
Thank's Cherry, Ierne, for your concern, it's appreciated. It's not an attack of self-disapproval I'm suffering from really, it's more angst with the social stuff, it kind of gets to be a raging torrent of shit at the moment, I'm letting that "sick society" get to me, I guess.

I had a thought : Invisibles vol 2, King Mob sitting in his chair, pizza and beer, Grant M somehow keying personal r/evolution in with KM's / his own weight loss(!??) and I'm thinking, if it's present there, what hope is there for mainstream media/society???

Linked to this - watching BBC light comedy - quite crudely taking the piss out of OAPs - angered me - and evidence everywhere that bashing political correctness is an excuse for ignoring basic compassion - I'm rambling.

Just kind of asking if Barbelith Underground is about revolution (personal/macrocosmal) and *hence* questioning assumptions, is there anyone who doesn't question the cult of the thin?

[ 17-08-2001: Message edited by: Dee Vapr ]
 
 
Fist Fun
08:34 / 19.08.01
No one said that mainstream society was logical or fair. Society is sick. Not just about body shape but about so many other things intelligence, disposition, race gender. Things we are born into and cannot change.
I suppose, though, that we are the lucky ones if we realise how pointless that "sick society" is. We have our eyes open and we can chose not to live our lives by superficial principals.
Or maybe I am just rambling.
More to the point of the thread. I have never been overweight but I have always leaned towards chubby rather than toned. A while back I started to exercise alot because I had time on my hands and I really enjoyed it ( and still do but have less time). I firmed up quite a bit and whenh I went out I got alot more attention in nightclubs. From superficial gits obviously, and horribly enough it actually mattered that they found me attractive.
Ok, definitely ramnling now.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
15:40 / 19.08.01
Dee-

I absolutely question the cult of thinness. I never actually want to be as thin as the insurance scales suggest I should be. For me, at least, I just like to feel healthy and strong. I feel like I "know" where my body is at its comfortable and most optimum shape, and though where that is is technically still overweight, I'm in excellent shape at that spot.

It's weird. My mom suggested I try and shoot for a weight that at my healthiest and most in shape I have never been near. If I were small frame for my height (I'm 5 foot 9 and a half) it would be a good weight for me, but I'm a large frame. I told her I refused to be that skinny and that I was shooting for at least 15 - 25 pounds more than that.

Having spent my formative years as a "fat girl," and also pondered it, I'm convinced that there are times when being overweight serves a purpose. I also think you can look pretty damn hot no matter what your size is.

But I do also think that fat people are like the one area of society where people can continue to bash and it's OK. Look at the rash of movies and television shows coming out that make fun of fat people. Like Martin Short doing "PrimeTime Glick," or that movie with Gwynneth Paltrow in a fat suit. I don't know if any of you guys saw "America's Sweethearts," but one of the things that annoyed me about that movie was that Julia finally got the attention of John Cusack when she was 60 pounds thinner. THEN it was OK for her to "have a life." THEN it was OK for her to have a romantic interest. And I mean, that's just fucking bullshit. Plus she didn't even look that fat in her fat suit anyway, which also annoyed me.

I'm also amazed that in poll after poll after poll, people consistently choose to die sooner than to live with like, 10 extra pounds. That is so sad to me. I can't imagine giving up part of my life just so I could be thinner.

Dee, there's also some good "anti-fatbashing sites" on the web. I keep meaning to pick up the shirt at ONe Angry Girl Designs that says "Fuck Your Fascist Beauty Standards."
 
 
pacha perplexa
16:48 / 19.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Cherry Bomb:

For me, at least, I just like to feel healthy and strong. I feel like I "know" where my body is at its comfortable and most optimum shape, and though where that is is technically still overweight, I'm in excellent shape at that spot.


There's the "energy" thing, too. I'm convinced that when you try to "standard" your body, shaping it in disagreement with its nature, you get sick.

I have a large frame too (damn big butt 'n hips), and whenever I got thinner than my normal, I got weak and anxious. And in the end I'd always gain weight again, more than I had before - it's like the body was trying to reestablish its equilibrium. I don't diet anymore (hate diets, love food), and my workouts are pleasurable activities, like Kung Fu, dance and going for a walk with my three dogs.

I love my body like that, not thin nor fat - but sometimes, after hours being bombarded with images of the perfect body in the media, my old anxiety comes back (I have a mother that always made me feel guilty about being overweight when I was a teenager - this is a kind of trauma).

So I meditate and it goes away.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
16:56 / 19.08.01
As someone who has dropped 20 pounds in the last 4 months and noticed the different reactions I get, I completely understand.

But I think some (not all and not even the truth) of the cult of thinness is how we are learning that the extra weight we carry is bad for us. That's why I started losing wiehgt...I woke up with heartburn, and was tired a majority of the time. Now, the less I weigh, the better I fell, NOT because of what other people think, but because I am getting in better shape.

I know why I gained the weight. Too much work, too much shit pre-processed food and no aerobic exercise of any kind...and I will lose wieght not to look like the guy on the cover of Men's Fitness, but because it means I can hang around and write longer.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
19:00 / 19.08.01
Well, there definitely is the health aspect, but I always wonder if being overweight, I'm not talking obese here but maybe 15 pounds or so over your "ideal" weight is really that bad for your health. I always question is it really "bad" from a health standpoint, or is it bad from a cultural standpoint. Or both?

I cannot force myself to follow strict diets at all. Never have been able to. But I have really missed being in shape and eating healthfully, which I hadn't really been doing until this latest "kick." Once I lost all that weight at 18, I knew I'd never be obese again, but I didn't really rule out gaining some weight occasionally.

I knew why I'd gained weight,too - it was all about control at the time - the only control I (felt like I) had at the time was what I ate. Then there was the fact that I had been hurt very, very badly by my boyfriend at the time. Hence, the "armor." The more I weigh, the less attention I get from suitors, and the last thing I was interested in at that time was another boyfriend.

Now that I'm in a different place, I'm amazed at how easily it's coming off, and that I'd forgotten how much I love to exercise. It's weird.

Like many I do have "fat days" but I almost feel like innoculated from it for the most part because for most of my life I've been apart from the body I'm supposed to aspire to, and I've decided I don't want that body. I think looking really thin looks unhealthy.

But that said, that is kind of personal preference for me. I don't want to get in some area where I bash skinny folks, because I don't feel that way at all. It's more I feel your body is going to be a certain "type," period, and you should get used to it and learn to love it and take care of it, but don't ever lament it.

Does that make sense?

[ 19-08-2001: Message edited by: Cherry Bomb ]
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
19:27 / 19.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Cherry Bomb:
I don't know if any of you guys saw "America's Sweethearts," but one of the things that annoyed me about that movie was that Julia finally got the attention of John Cusack when she was 60 pounds thinner.


And let's not even mention 'Friends' fascistic attitudes which have left me literally speechless with anger. Oh, i just have. Shit.
 
 
Cop Killer
20:33 / 19.08.01
All throughout grade school I was the fat kid. It was a common thing in my family, all my brothers and my sister was fat during grade school, my father was fat at that time in his life too. When I was fifteen I started losing quite a bit of weight (I lost about 60 pounds in three months). I didn't get much more attention, I mean, I did finally get a girlfriend, but she liked me when I was fat too, so, whatever. But now I notice that I get more attention from people, not too many, a lot are put off by my attitude that gets me attention in the first place -- the whole "fuck off" attitude mixed with cocksure egotism, a lot of people don't like it, I don't know why. I notice girls staring at me. And it's not that I'm all that thin, I'm still a bit flabby here and there, but you can't really tell that much, I'm at a good weight right now (190 at 6'1") but I don't exercise at all (I smoke way too much); in fact the only exercise I really get is at shows where I jump around like a lunatic. My weight does fluxuate a lot -- it goes from about 185 to about 215, and it seems to be seasonal, in the winter I get heavier and in the spring/summer I lose it all; it's like I'm a fucking bear or something. I've had chances to get with the girls that used to not give me the time of day, but I won't and I'm usually rather rude to them because the way the acted towards me used to hurt so much that if I were to act any differently it would be like I was turning my back on the fat 12 year old that I used to be.
 
 
Ganesh
08:26 / 20.08.01
Mmmm... bear...
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:00 / 20.08.01
Oh, you.

This is massively interesting. I'm wondering whether the fat shame affects men as badly as it does women: physical bulk is often seen as "masculine" whether it's fat or muscle. I suppose the point is that the heavier somebody is, the more easily they can wrerstle you to the ground, which is an attractive(?) macho thing for blokes but obviously less so for women.

I know a couple of tall, big-frame women who are by no means fat, but are uncomfortable with their physical height and bulk, because they tower over almost every man they go out with. I myself don't do short blokes - I just don't fancy them.

Also I have a couple of fat male friends who are not otherwise unattractive, being bright, pleasant and exceptionally good company, but don't tend to get out much, sexually (both het). And I wonder what would happen - if their lives would be improved - if they would enjoy themselves more - if they each shed about four stone. I mean, if nothing else, I'd love to see what they both looked like with cheekbones. But I don't say anything because I don;t want to push either of them down a road of diet/exercise that, at least with one of them, could easily become obsessive. And I don't want to imply that they would be "better" (better off maybe) if they were thin.

Um . . . I suppose I want them to know how great it is when people look at you and go helloooooinstead of totally ignoring you. I had an ugly duckling transformation myself and I wouldn't have carried on being miserable minging geek girl for worlds. Except that maybe I would have had more time to devote to writing and more pain and bitterness to write about.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
19:15 / 20.08.01
CK, you are SO not fat. I'da never knowed.

(completely aside if you people had any idea where I was right now, you would be in hysterics with laughter. Later.)

/threadrot
 
 
Cop Killer
04:21 / 21.08.01
Yeah, I know, the whole me being dead sexy thing right now has it's advantages...but, really, the only reason I lost weight was my disease that may kill me by the time I'm 40, so go figure...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
07:31 / 21.08.01
quote:Originally posted by pacha mama:
There's the "energy" thing, too. I'm convinced that when you try to "standard" your body, shaping it in disagreement with its nature, you get sick.

When I was at uni, I was lectured by a guy named Dale Atrens, who has written a couple of books that're anti-dieting, and generally critical of the standards of nutrition in general. I've not read them, but I remember that in lectures, he used to push the idea that your body has a particular weight that it'll settle at anyway; if you try to mould it, you will, pretty much, get sick, and then end up back where you're supposed to be.

Which makes me feel better about not being ripped, but not much. Gah.

I would, in the main, prefer to be smaller than I am. I'm not huge, but I ain't dainty. I've been about 20kg lighter than I am now, but that was when I wasn't stressed, and was taking herbal pills to do so. The Bingen-level headaches pretty much made me knock it on the head; that and collapsing at home, I guess.
 
 
deletia
07:52 / 21.08.01
quote:Originally posted by The Haus of Jericho:
Interestingly, Whisky managed to make me feel acutely self-conscious about my lardiness last night. One on level, I know this to be absurd - I'm 6'5 and weigh about 190-200lbs, which seems about reasonable. And yet I still manage to look in the mirror and see a man not as skinny as he was at 19, and this depresses me.

But I'm with Solitaire Rose *and* Cherry. To a very great extent, it must be the weight that you are happy with and you feel healthy at. During my protracted and time-consuming nervous breakdown, I ate very little and wasted down to a point where I had almost no energy. At the moment, I may be a long way from the body beautiful, but I can run from Hoxton Square to London Bridge without keeling over, I can vault railings and I can jump up or down stars at a fair clip, which is sort of what you need from a body in Central London. The rest is just a matter of personal and aesthetic taste.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
07:52 / 21.08.01
Jeez, OK, I'm sorry all right! You didn;t have to say it twice.

Plus the only reason I was ripping the piss quite so much was that the idea of the Haus considering himself a big Oprah-style tub of lard was so inherently funny. Those of you who have met him will know that he looks like an anatomical drawing. Baby, it's not quite time to resort to Ryvita and vomiting yet.
 
 
GRIM
07:52 / 21.08.01
On the other hand...
Obesity IS an increasing problem.
Lifestyle, poor food.
Its not always "Its me glands"
Sometimes its just genuinely that you eat too much, and shouldn't.

Society does present a hopelessly idealistic image of the perfect body that it rarely acheivable to the hoi polloi, but neither should we be telling 1/2 ton human mountains that its OK to be a lardy.

Personally I neither have the time nor inclination to exercise. I am not a gerbil, running in wheels doesn't interest me in the slightest.
So I've put on a bit, and as I've got older my metabolism has changed.
I'm not the rake I was, that happens to us all.

Just be what you are, but try not to be a skeleton or the michelen man,
 
 
deletia
13:16 / 21.08.01
quote:Originally posted by GRIM:

Sometimes its just genuinely that you eat too much, and shouldn't.

The problem with statements like that is that it creates the idea of "the good fat"- those who are fat for some identifiable medical reason - and "the bad fat" - those who are fat without a letter from their doctor explaining why - which fails to take into account a ridiculous number of factors.

It's also worth noting that people's metric, in the case of narcissistic men, tends to start a little bit above themselves. So "fat" becomes another way to create an us/them distinction.

Oh, and "hoi" *means* "the". It's the nominative masculine plural definite article.

[ 22-08-2001: Message edited by: The Haus of Jericho ]
 
 
passer
17:20 / 21.08.01
Thread drift
I warned you. Haus, the hoi polloi is in fact the proper English usage. Because hoi is a Greek article it doesn't actually count grammatically in the sentence (unless the article is from a widely recognized language, usually limited to French or Spanish in the States at least). Therefore, it's El Nino, but the hoi polloi.

Ok, I'm done with my bit of pedantry for the day, on to the topic at hand.

For everyone spouting about being comfortable with yourself, that's sort of skirting the issue isn't it? It's not just about how you, the isolated and separate being, feel. You're part of society, so how society feels on a subject does in some way inform how you feel. I might love the heavy version of me, but if everyone else mocks me relentlessly for being fat and unattractive, while heaping lavish praise on weight loss, how likely is it that I'll continue to feel that way? I suppose my point is that in finding the weight "you're comfortable with" involves looking at what society tells you too and it's better to get that out into the open rather than trying to pretend your preference is created in some vacuum.
 
 
Ierne
18:15 / 21.08.01
passer: I don't think it skirts the issue at all. For me to reject a societal concept of body image that my body will never fit, to decide for myself what my standards of beauty are...that's not avoidance, that's confrontation.

When "everyone else mocks me relentlessly for being fat and unattractive, while heaping lavish praise on weight loss", my response is: Fuck You.

Far from being isolated and separate, I am putting myself in a position of interaction with those around me, who have to think about why I feel differently than they've been taught to feel about body image.
 
 
deletia
06:49 / 22.08.01
quote:Originally posted by passer:
Thread drift
I warned you. Haus, the hoi polloi is in fact the proper English usage. Because hoi is a Greek article it doesn't actually count grammatically in the sentence (unless the article is from a widely recognized language, usually limited to French or Spanish in the States at least). Therefore, it's El Nino, but the hoi polloi.

"Widely recognised language" - I love it. That's possibly the most parochial statement I have ever heard made on Barbelith, which is going some. You know, outside America other languages are often widely recognised. Germany, for example, is absolutely lousy with people who recognise German. The Dutch have been known to "recognise" English. Dutch, Flemish, German and French. Why exactly should America be the yardstick, especially given that GRIM and I are both English, and so is the founder of the board?

However, you are half-correct. Usage permits both "the hoi polloi" and "hoi polloi", at least according to the OED. And you may note that I did not correct him. I merely made him aware of the word's meaning, and left the choice up to him.
 
 
passer
11:36 / 22.08.01
Ierne- Thanks for answering, but I do have another question. How often do you feel like people actually stop to hear what you're saying and think as opposed to just nodding along with what you're saying or, worse yet, just telling you you’re wrong and whipping out health factoids to back them up? I find people are perfectly willing to agree that people can be naturally thin, but to suggest that someone can be naturally "fat" and healthy is not so readily accepted.

I hate the fact that you have to be confrontational about it. I have the same emotional response as the one that started this thread. You get tired, tired of the burden of justifying and explaining to other people.

Segueing back to digression, I go:
This is what I get for paraphrasing without saying where I got the information. On the other hand, I've never been called parochial before so that's a new thrill that rather balances it out, I suppose.

From what I understood, it is a valid rule on both sides of the Atlantic, but I've been wrong before. I included the El Nino bit out of amusement, part of my logic in placing it in parentheses. Frankly, as an American, the idea that a wide swatch of the country recognizes any language other than English is laughable. We have enough trouble remembering that we have other countries on the same continent.

To judge on the basis of his sentence, he seemed to have the meaning down, so pardon me for assuming that your remark was other than a bit of edification on a minor point of grammar. Of course, I had the same intent so you can see how easy the mistake is to make.

Why should America be the yardstick? Because we're unlikely to be the meter. Ba dum-dum.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
11:38 / 22.08.01
quote:Originally posted by The Haus of Jericho:

You know, outside America other languages are often widely recognised.



Just wanted to point out that many of us recognize espanol, but other than that, I suppose you are correct (sadly).


Back to the point at hand, to say, "Well, there are some people who just eat too much." I can tell you that many people who just "eat too much" tend to have other issues driving them to overeat. Would you say to an alcoholic, "Well you just drink too much. Knock it off!" It's rather on a similar tack.

That said, I am well aware of the all-TV, all giant portion, all car-driving, all video-gaming culture of America. And it's really no big shock to me that there are so many overweight americans at least. We live in a culture that's obsessed with thinness, and practically programmed to fatten most of us. It's a little embarrassing.
 
 
deletia
11:40 / 22.08.01
Have we all made up now? I hate it when we fight...

I think Ierne's point is a very good one. Society does have to change. And, in a sense, it is. Unfortunately, as the population gets bigger (volumetrically), the ideals of beauty seem to be getting smaller and thinner. Sign of a sick society? And if so, is there a "fuck you" loud enough to make it change direction?
 
 
Cherry Bomb
11:51 / 22.08.01
But aha! IS it all that subsersive and "fuck-you" to be 70 pounds overweight because The Olive Garden triples what would be a decent portion of pasta, a "Super-Size/Large" McD's meal in Britain is the size of a Medium in the U.S., one has to drive every fucking place they wanna go b/c that's the way their neighborhood's been set up, and one sits on the couch and watches TV for 5 hours at a stretch after work?

By that same token, is it subservsive to dutifully stairmaster and fat-free those 70 pounds off because you really, really want to look like Courtney Cox?
 
 
passer
12:12 / 22.08.01
Group hug anyone?

Cherry bomb-
Are saying it's damned if you do damned if you don't?
 
 
Cherry Bomb
12:15 / 22.08.01
No. I'm just thinking about it. I acutally think the only way to actually win though, is to consider the odds and learn to love your body.

Hippy as that sounds...

Indeed, group hug...
 
 
Ierne
12:26 / 22.08.01
I just knew that if I got up to make some coffee, someone would post ahead of me.

passer: I notice that people respond more to how I say what I feel than to any intellectual discussion. I'm not sure how clear it was in my last post, but when people say things like "Oh, you'd be so gorgeous if you'd just lose XX pounds" I tend to laugh and say "Fuck that, I'm gorgeous NOW!" far more than I tend to yell "AAAHHHH! FUCK YOU! "

Most people (consciously or not) expect the latter response, or something equally negative. So when they get a positive self-affirmation instead, that is what makes 'em stop and think. How far the thought goes, or how long it lasts...these are variables I really can't control. I agree with Haus that Society needs to change, but I don't think it's a matter of "how loud", it's more "how many". If more of us just stopped falling into the trap of obsessing about our weight and used that energy for other things...wow.

Cherry: I really don't know how I would answer those questions. I've never eaten at the Olive Garden, don't drive and haven't had a telly since 1989. (I can't even remember the last time I walked into a McDonald's...) I HAVE had the experience of being at a restaraunt with other people, and having the audacity to order desert (a huge banana split) in the presence of dieting people. It felt subversive at the time...

[ 22-08-2001: Message edited by: Ierne ]
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:30 / 22.08.01
I find it a little odd that everyone thinks it is totally okay to call someone sick for adopting an anorexic and/or bulimic lifestyle but a person who overeats has to be accepted for their unhealthy habits. If your objection to one of these extremes (anorexia) has to do with health issues, you probably should be consistant and object to the other (morbid obesity) based on health issues.

I suppose one could say the anorexic/bulimic people are unhealthy just for the sake of conforming to an unnatural standard of beauty, but it is a personal choice to try and conform to that standard, like, you know, getting a tattoo, a piercing, or modifiying your body in other painful ways ( bifurcated penis, corsets, etc.) Everyone here supports my right to bifurcate my penis if that is the standard of beauty I want to live up to, right?
 
 
deletia
12:37 / 22.08.01
Only if I get to use it to keep documents together.
 
 
passer
19:02 / 22.08.01
Todd-
I'm not sure I'm with you on the "everyone thinks" bit, but I'll stick to answering for myself. "Unhealthy eating habits?" Try deadly, which I think will rather nicely highlight why comparing it with relatively controlled body modification isn't quite right. (There are always exceptions, so can we skip the fanciful exemplars?) I consider both extremes bad, but the issue here isn't really the extremes, but where the perceived mid-point is placed.

Why is everyone rushing to point out that anorexia and bulimia are bad? Because society at large is damn reluctant to do so. Weight loss, unless it is drastic enough to clearly threaten someone's life, is almost universally praised. Yet, let someone gain a mere ten pounds and the commentary about exercise and good health commences.
 
  

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