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"Cheating" Vegetarians

 
  

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MissLenore
20:47 / 07.12.02
I've been a vegetarian since I was thirteen, and at 20, I pretty much had gotten to the point where meat was just not something I thought about. Until today. For whatever reason, I ate chicken. And I don't mean a tiny sliver of chicken, I mean, a PIECE of chicken. This obviously was a bad idea in terms of how it will definitely screw up my digestive system, but I also have a lot of negative emotions right now. It was almost silly, because I ate it in my room, feeling the need to "hide" my moment of weakness. It made me feel disappointed in myself, and embarassed, and guilty and I probably won't do it again.
My boyfriend, also a vegetarian, has given in and eaten meat on at least one occasion that I can think of as well, and I was wondering if any other Barbelith vegetarians had done the same. What made you eat that piece of meat? Did you feel a sense of disappointment/failure/shame/guilt in yourself as well, or shrug it off? If you are a vegetarian and haven't sneaken that piece of meat ever, would you?
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
21:39 / 07.12.02
I've gone the veg route many a time and I always buckle. I come from a big meat-eating family, though, so it's been kind of ingrained in me all my life that eating meat is good if not absolutely necessary. I'm in a months-long period of "cheating" at the moment. I'm torn between not really worrying about it that much and feeling really guilty about it. Because a long, hard think about it revealed that eating meat (or at least eating the meat of animals that are kept the way that they are) is pretty much totally in opposition w/my belief system. I really don't eat that much meat, but, being poverty stricken pretty much all of the time, I have to take what food I can get. I'm often offered meat and it's hard to turn down. I don't know. I still feel guilty about it, even though sometimes it's the difference between eating and going hungry.
 
 
Punji Steak
21:43 / 07.12.02
In August 2001 I started eating meat again after 11 years as a strict vegetarian. Why? not really sure, always loved meat before I became a vegetarian and I guess the old blood lust finally got the better of me. And, despite the fact I still abhor many aspects of the meat industry (well, all of them except the meat itself) I haven't felt a great deal of guilt since.

And it didn't screw up my digestion at all. To be honest my digestion has probably improved since - tell you one thing, I don't get indigestion or heartburn anything like as much as I did since...
 
 
MissLenore
21:44 / 07.12.02
That was sort of what happened in this case. I have no money to buy groceries but my student meal card still has quite a bit of money on it and I got sick of using it to get the same pita from the pita restaurant all the time.
At the same time I keep telling myself that that's no excuse. It's not like I'm starving to death, in which case I would not feel quite so guilty.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:41 / 07.12.02
Speaking as a veggie: It's. A. Piece. Of. Chicken. Stop beating yourself up, hop back on the ol' wagon, and fuggedabbadit.

The last time I ate meat was a mistake: there was some tuna in a pasta thing I ate at a party. Felt a bit bad, but on the grand scheme of things it hardly matters.
 
 
A
05:45 / 08.12.02
Yeah, don't get all worried about being a (gasp) Bad Vegetarian, or whatever. It's not like you have to hand back your Official Vegetarian Card. One little instance of chicken-eating doesn't matter a lot in the grand scheme of things.

I've been herbivorous for quite a few years now, and i haven't really had any urge to eat meat at all for a very long time, but if i did slip up at some point, i don't think i'd get too cut up about it.
 
 
that
12:17 / 08.12.02
I was a vegan for four years aged 14-18... but during some hassles with an eating disorder (no, I'm not making excuses, but I was in a very weird place then), I became an ovo-lacto vegetarian and then an omnivore in quick succession. And I continued eating meat for over two years, and just didn't think about it, at all - no guilt, no thought. Last new years, I became a vegetarian, because I felt it was wrong not to be, and then more recently, I became a vegan again, with a few lapses. I'm recovering from an eating disorder, and when I binge I sometimes toy with the idea of eating meat, and sometimes I give in and do eat dairy/eggs.

I finally connected with my old ideals the other day, remembered, truly felt, why I gave up meat in the first place, all those many moons ago. So I don't think, even at my lowest ebb, re. the eating disorder, that I would eat meat now... but when I fuck up re. dairy/eggs, I feel horrible about it, guilty, useless, greedy, awful - but then I hop back on the wagon like MC says. You just deal with it - it doesn't undo all your prior good work, you know? Perhaps it's good to slip every once in a while, because it makes you re-examine your ideals, and might make you remember why you chose this path in the first place...
 
 
Shortfatdyke
15:19 / 08.12.02
To answer the abstract - no, I've never knowingly eaten meat or fish in the last 21 years. Mostly because what turned me veggie (after reading a lot about the meat industry) was looking at meat and having something approaching a revelation as to what it was and where it came from - that feeling is something I won't forget. Also, it's pretty damn easy to not eat meat or fish in the UK these days, the veggie options are much nicer and easier to get.

I have no longing for meat. Although if a veggie version of fish fingers could be invented, I'll have some, please.

But Cholister comes up with a good point: I often forget why I'm veggie, because I've been one for so long. The feeling of horror at seeing dead flesh is often just a feeling: I don't have the stats to back it up. It is good to re-think and re-evaluate beliefs. I was getting very lax about not always checking that eggs were free range, for instance, until I read some stuff by the RSPCA about it, and got back on the ball.

But Miss Lenore - have you eaten meat since? You still want to be veggie? If it's a one off, then I wouldn't flagellate myself over it too much. You said you had some negative emotions going on, so it sounds almost like a self-abuse thing. So, I would say think about why you did it, rather than hating yourself for the act.
 
 
MissLenore
15:41 / 08.12.02
No, I haven't eaten meat since (mind, this happened last night) and yes I still want to be a "veggie." It's more that I can't just explain to the chicken, "Hey, I'm sorry I ate you. I'm weak." I'm not beating myself up really, I DO feel bad, but my main reason for creating this thread was to see if this was something that other vegetarians had sometimes encountered. Sort of an "I'm not alone!" thing.
 
 
w1rebaby
18:43 / 08.12.02
Veggies do it all the time, from all the ones I've known. By accident or preference or whatever. There's no shame in it.

The only time I would ever laugh and point fingers is if the person had been criticising other people for eating meat. You know, the sort of hyper-vegan evangelist that only really exists in Richard Littlejohn's fantasies. This has not happened yet. I have never met anyone conforming to this stereotype in the first place, let alone seen them slipping into McDonalds for a quick Big Mac.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
19:29 / 08.12.02
Yeah, if you're not a vegan you're still making use of animal products anyway so it's not like it matters...
 
 
Ariadne
21:50 / 08.12.02
shortfatdyke - you *can* get vegan 'fish' fingers, and they're magic. They're quite new, made by Redwood Foods, and for sale in most Holland and Barratt shops.

In fact, I might go and have one right now....
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
22:03 / 08.12.02
I'm honestly surprised that no one's been crude enough to make veggie-human nuggets or somesuch, if only as a novelty. It's always seemed a bit funny to me that there exist so many veggie analogues of actual meat. Why not take it to the next level?

Yes, these things do actually reside in my mind.
 
 
gentleman loser
22:17 / 08.12.02
My Misgendered Lord of the Flowers:

Yeah, if you're not a vegan you're still making use of animal products anyway so it's not like it matters...

That's exactly why I'll never be a pure vegan or vegetarian because most people would be shocked and amazed how many products they buy everyday have animal parts in them. It's far smarter I think to go for harm reduction for animals than trying to hold yourself to a purist standard that you may never be able to live up to.

MissLenore, you obviously care about what you are eating and are trying to make a difference in the world. That's what is important. Nobody is perfect and no one will burn you at the stake for your supposed shortcomings. We all yield to temptation on occasion, don't we? I know I do. You wouldn't be human otherwise.
 
 
w1rebaby
22:24 / 08.12.02
okay... what the hell do vegan 'fish' fingers contain?

I've tried those veggie "bacon strips" and, while they don't taste too bad, they're inherently fucking peculiar. Their basic artificial nature puts me off.
 
 
Ariadne
22:34 / 08.12.02
I know what you mean - I've bought vegan cheese and so on a few times but I'm put off by how chemical they are. The fish fingers, on the other hand, seem less plastic.

They are made of ...

*Ariadne runs to the fridge*

Water, breadcrumbs, sunflower oil, soy protein, textured vegetable protein, 'flavouring', wheat starch, salt, onion powder, thickener: carageenan, spice extracts.

If you ate real Birds Eye yesterday, these would probably taste laughably unfishy, but for me they're just brilliant. I save them for those 'fed up with the world, want junk food' nights and they're great.
 
 
Ariadne
22:39 / 08.12.02
To get back on topic, there's no point in feeling bad about it, MissLenore. If you don't want to start eating meat again, don't - write it off as a strange day. Or maybe you do - only you can know that.

Years and years ago I ate a whelk. I'd only been veggie for a year and I'd never had a whelk and I gave in under peer pressure - and then was pissed off at myself. I didn't feel like I was suddenly not-veg, more that I was just a bit silly. And I haven't eaten anything meaty since. Well, that's a lie - I've had a mouthful of mince moussaka by accident, and I'm sure there's been chicken stock lurking in restauarant meals. It happens, no matter how hard you try.

Only you can know what you want to eat. You do what you can, you know?
 
 
w1rebaby
22:40 / 08.12.02
I'd try them but the amount of veggie food obtainable where I am is... er, well, they sell vegetables, that's about it. And tofu.

That is one thing the US sucks for.
 
 
Ariadne
22:43 / 08.12.02
Redwood Foods does have a website, at www.redwoodfoods.co.uk and does mail order - but they might be a bit mouldy by the time they get to you!

Right, too much fishy nonsense late at night, I'm off to bed.
 
 
MissLenore
23:14 / 08.12.02
Just wanted to thank everyone for the support and not saying "YOU DID WHAT?!!!"

By the way, Ariadne, what's a whelk?
 
 
w1rebaby
23:29 / 08.12.02


Lots of zinc.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
07:53 / 09.12.02
Vegan fish fingers exist??!

Thank you, Ariadne, you have made me very, very happy.
 
 
grant
18:22 / 09.12.02
Odd, I just got back from meeting someone at a Chinese restaurant that served vegetarian chicken dishes. I hadn't had General Tso's Chicken in yeeeaaars. Thank you, seitan!

I eat fish without compunction normally, so I may not be a good test case.

But I eat meat once a year - Fat Tuesday, usually. Just to remind me what I'm missing out on. Interesting blend of lust and revulsion (and I'm not really a "moral" vegetarian, either, although that's become a concern since wandering down this path). Fat Tuesday is the traditional day of carnality, you know. Burning the flesh seems appropriate.

By the bye, I've never had digestive problems doing this except once - Nicaraguan place, rare baby churrasco topped with oily garlic sauce and chased by a honkin' big piece of tres leches, the richest cake in the world. I have a feeling a tofu meal with all those trimmin's would've had the same effect.

I can understand the need to do it in private. People freak out if they see a "vegetarian" eating meat. It's like "hey! you're breaking the code! stop it! back in your box!"

Losers.

Hey fridge - I bet you can find more veggie stuff by going to a chain health food store. They've got seitan and tempeh and stuff. Restaurants are a bit more of a challenge, though, if you're not eating Asian.
 
 
Naked Flame
19:29 / 09.12.02
Fridge, you're in Chicago aren't you?

Assuming I didn't make that up, my SO recommends the Chicago Diner (amazing vegan desserts) and Amitabul (ask for the chef's special.)

And yep on the health food chains- I just got back from NYC and was knocked out by the scrumptiousness and availabilty of vegan goodies.

Oh, and one other thing- we found out this time around that a lot of kosher bagel places will carry tofu 'cream cheese' because of the taboo on mixing milk and meat.
 
 
bitchiekittie
19:56 / 09.12.02
he doesnt want to be veggie, he enjoys sushi too much
 
 
gridley
20:34 / 09.12.02
Fridge, it's just because you're in the burbs. Come into the city again and I'll show you whole grocery stores dedicated to vegetarians.
 
 
Bear
09:34 / 08.11.05
Didn't really want to start a new thread so I thought I'd bump this one because the stuff I'm wondering about is related (a little).....

Was just wondering how far vegetarians/vegans here take to the whole lifestyle - I mean I've not eaten meat deliberately for 3 years now (possible meat related pizza incident which made me feel unbelieveably guilty)

What's bringing this up is that fact that I'm sitting here with a terrible headache, I bought some paracetamol from Boots earlier and checked the label and found that it contains Stearic acid which is made either from animal fat or vegetable oil but there's no way of finding out (and believe me I've looked) - so would you take the pill? I've been taken them in the past but these days I'm getting more and more strict with on the veggie scale (swapped to veggie toothpaste, veggie bathroom products etc.) so does the fact that I've been popping these pills mean that in fact I've not been vegetarian all this time?

I also think some of this is related to my ongoing OCD type behaviour, vegetarianism seems to give me the excuse I need to be extremely fussy....

Just looking for opinions really.... next time I'm in town I'm going to buy some white birch bark which apparently helps headaches not that it'll help me at the moment.
 
 
Loomis
09:58 / 08.11.05
Hmm, i think you could be going a bit overboard with this. If you have no way of knowing what it's made from, I'd take it. Generally animal ingredients are more expensive, so there's a good chance it's vege. Are all brands the same - maybe you could buy another brand next time you're at the shop?

It's impossible to be 100% anything as there will be things you consume that have ingredients you never knew about, so take the pill!

It's not worth the energy stressing over whether or not you're a proper vegetarian. It'll just wear you out and you'll be more likely to chuck it in. As long as you're not being militant towards others and criticising them for not being a proper vege then there's no reason to do the same to yourself.

Good to have you back on the board, by the way. How's tricks?
 
 
Bear
10:30 / 08.11.05
That's the thing though I can't see myself chucking it in quite the opposite and yeah your probably right though it's just me finding something to stress over. I'm still not taking a pill though I'll wait and have a little bottle of wine on the way home, at least it had a nice big V on the back (M&S rule) does the same thing really.

Things would be much simpler though if anything that you drank or ate had to have a disclaimer on the back, maybe one day.

I'm ok by the way, I've still been here but I was mainly in the LOST thread before it went to shit and full of spoilers. I went a bit off the rails due to my last job being a nightmare (they did have great veggie lunches though) but things are back on track (last day on a contract today).
 
 
toughest, fastest, fatest
11:06 / 08.11.05
I tell people I'm a veggie because on the whole I don't like meat, and I'd rather eat vegetarian food. I did eat a big fry up at my parent's house the other day, and I do occaisionally lapse.
I certainly don't bother about what ingredients are put in pills or beer of whatever.

But then I'm not a veggie because I feel sorry for animals, but because you don't need meat and I'm not that keen on it anyway.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:12 / 08.11.05
I've accidentally eaten meat a couple of times, and felt bad- not morally bad, cos it was an accident, but slightly icky about the fact that there was bits of dead animal in my stomach.

(Incidentally, who was it who said "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants"?)
 
 
Bear
11:34 / 08.11.05
I have bit of guilt complex if such a thing exists and I think maybe this is just an extension of that, I seem to constantly want to feel guilty and worried about something and this gives me plenty of chances. I've noticed it coming through in dreams, if I feel guilty during the day about something I often dream of tucking into a steak pie and suddenly remembering that I'm veggie...

It also might be due to the fact that I've not been eating all that healthily and I'm starting to slightly resent veggie food, eating the same cheese sandwich everyday will probably do that to you (M&S Sucks)

I'll feel much better once I've gone to Holland and Barrett and bought a (recently informed about via Babelith) Porkless Pie....

Anyone tried the True-Free Vegan lentil pots, so good. The world is crying out for quick and easy veggie food - There's no real kebab equivalent for veggies.
 
 
Malarki
12:24 / 08.11.05
No, don't give in, don't get tempted, and check all products not endorsed by vegetarian/vegan society for animal by-products. Had a big arguement at a Happy Eater once coz found bacon in my mushrooms. This is probably the only area that I might unwittingly consume animal products - when eating out. But even so try and find pure vegetarian places (Kosher is good coz that ensures seperate preparation of veg and meat).

Unlike Mr Stoatee, I don't hate plants, I just like iritating uptight carnivores and Hitler was veggie.
 
 
Smoothly
12:35 / 08.11.05
(Incidentally, who was it who said "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants"?)

A. Whitney Brown, apparently.
 
 
Mono
15:33 / 08.11.05
Hmmm. a few years a go i was pressured into trying a small piece of chicken and was wracked with guilt for weeks.

Having worked in a health food shop for the past few years, i really take veggie/vegan food for granted these days. it's gotta be the one good thing about living in a big, nasty city i guess.

i'm so glad you've stuck with it bear! right on.
 
  

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