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Magick, Paganism and the Great Outdoors

 
 
illmatic
18:09 / 03.12.02
Perhaps inspired by Pan raising his horns in Sypha's thread - just wanted to post a few thoughts.

When I first got interested in magick, i wasn't that interested in paganism or wicca at all (probably in part due to the poo-pooing it got in the Chaos magick stuff I was reading at the time), but as I get older, I find myself more interested in, if not reading loads of Wiccan texts, just being outdoors and enjoying nature. One of the absolute best weekends of this year for me was a camping trip out to the North Downs. The growth of this feeling seems to be accompanied by a loss of interest in socio-cultural stuff - for instance, I'm less interested in music (and drugs) than I used to be. I recognise a lot of this is just me getting older. Perhaps I'm just getting in touch with my "inner hippy" - he's never been far away, you know.

So to throw out a few questions, in the hope of kickstarting a debate - What about everybody else here? Has anyone else had this experience? How do you see the relationship (if any) between your own magicial practices and the natural world? Essential and irrelevant? What's the difference between a magician and a pagan? If you do practise outdoors, what do you do? Has anyone come across any magicial writing that seems to hit the mark when talking about nature? And a final question - how might we bring these ideas back into the city?
 
 
Badbh Catha
19:30 / 03.12.02
Hmmm...the word "nature" can be a tricky one – different people will have different definitions. I suspect that for many people posting here, their "natural" environment is an urban or suburban one; an extended stay outside those areas can leave them feeling more weak and vulnerable than anything else. It is important to remember that areas not inhabited by humans for the most part – what some would facilely call "natural environments" – can be extremely hazardous, sometimes more so than urban areas (for those not accustomed to them).

It's one thing to appreciate and respect non-urban environments; it's quite another thing to fetishize them, or get into a headspace where "If we all just go back to NATURE, everything will be alright." (Please note I am not accusing Mr. Illmatic of this; it is, however, a mindset that crops up quite a bit when dealing with "nature religions".)

Personally, I feel much stronger currents of power within urban surroundings than I do in rural or non-urban ones. While I appreciate that forests, shorelines, deserts etc. are extremely important environmentally, that doesn't mean that my Magickal practice will automatically improve if I drop everything and start living in a cave. Some folks prefer to be out in the country, and move out there and do their Magick there and are quite happy – I suppose it's a matter of personal temperament more than anything else.

Paganism is not the same as Magick, although indeed many Pagans practice Magick and many Magickians consider themselves Pagans. Paganism is a spiritual outlook while Magick is a series of techniques and skills.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
19:40 / 03.12.02
I'm sure that there is some cultural connection here that I haven't exposed myself to, but as I understand it there's not necessarily a connection between paganism and pastoralism. A good many of the world's pagans have been urbanites, though I couldn't estimate the proportion. I'm thinking of, like, Rome, Athens, Cairo, Persepolis and so on, in no particular order. Their myths reflected seasonal considerations but not, I think, any abiding connection to the Great Outdoors... unless you count the seas, but that always struck me as a commercial consideration, thus thoroughly urban. I don't know what, if any, monotheisms come out of a pastoral setting -- is the desert pastoral? If it is, there are several notable examples. Wicca itself, again as I understand it, is a bit of urban fantasy on pastoral themes. (That's not a knock on Wicca, btw.) The genuinely pastoral pagan mythologies rarely conform to Wicca's ideas about Man's role in "nature" -- they emphasized man's separation from "nature". Not that I'm any expert on Wiccan ideas, so (reference to Pagan rite...) take that with a grain of salt.

I wouldn't think magick was really anything to do with paganism, though paganism could be part of magick, if the magician wanted it that way.

As for personal experience, I was once nearly mauled by a bear while camping. Okay, it was just a dog and it only sniffed around my tent, but still I swore never to go camping again. I used to enjoy wandering aimlessly in open fields and climbing easy little mountains, though I haven't done it in a while. Nietzche, I think, spoke (or spake) about the beneficient effects of walking for hours. I think the real benefit was that it kept my body busy and didn't stimulate my mind too much, so that I wandered off in all sorts of interesting mental directions. Walking in the city requires a lot more attention to your surroundings. In a more mythic mode, perhaps the city is constructed to Man's proportions, whereas he has been constructed to the proportions of Nature. Being away from cities lets Man forget what he's done and focus on what he is.
 
 
illmatic
08:05 / 04.12.02
Thanks both for your comments. Yeah, BC, appreciate your point about fetishization of – you get the same thing with “primitive” societies as well, been down that road of thought myself in the past, when reading lots of anarcho-stuff (which obviously had no relation with my experience whatsoever). Being thoroughly urban (well, suburban) in upbringing being outside always makes me notice the absence of my normal life support systems (shops and cashpoints!), and this is only in the relative security of Southern England. The truly wild would scare the shit out of me I think. I guess that some of it’s power.

Qalyn: I think you’re correct when you say Wicca is a bit of a urban fantasy/reconstruction, perhaps the same can be said for some elements of contemporary paganism (and that’s not to knock either tradition). When I said paganism I was thinking more the modern pagan scene rather than the great religions of antiquity. The urban nature of these civilisations totally slipped my mind so thanks for pointing that out.
What mythologies are you thinking of when you say the truly pastoral?

I like your point about the power of scale - brings back memories of being in North India, Himalayan foothills, and a real sense of awe. (And I didn't even make it further north to the Himalayas proper). Stirring stuff.

Another question: to anybody who works with power animals or shamanic techniques: What connection, if any, does this have with you local eco-system? (BTW, this is not intended to critque anyone’s practice – just an enquiry)
 
 
illmatic
14:30 / 04.12.02
Thought I'd chuck in a link to this article.
He talks a lot about techniques that a lot of people here will be familar with but I liked the account of building up a relationship wiht a site.
 
 
Badbh Catha
14:42 / 04.12.02
Bloody HTML!

That should do us for Mr. Illmatic's article!

Oh, and Qalyn:
A good many of the world's pagans have been urbanites, though I couldn't estimate the proportion. I'm thinking of, like, Rome, Athens, Cairo, Persepolis and so on, in no particular order.

Remember that the term "pagan" was used by Christians to describe non-Christians, at a time when urbanites were rapidly converting to Christianity. Pre-christian polytheists would probably not have referred to themselves as "Pagans".

You are correct in that many religious centers in the ancient world were based in urban areas.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
15:01 / 04.12.02
Mr Illmatic - you've summed up a lot of the reasons why I've just made the big move from the city to the country. Not just the country, but a place with a hell of a lot of folklore, ley lines, sacred sites.... I was coming here to visit and found the energy incredibly powerful and inspiring, for a lot of things - spiritual development, if you like, and art. I felt out of kilter in London. The best way I can describe it is wanting to work with nature, of acknowledging its awesome power. Just going to watch the waves crashing against the cliffs blows me away, and some of the stones/Celtic sites I've been to have made me buzz. Inner hippy? Perhaps. But it makes me want to do stuff.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
15:34 / 04.12.02
Badbh, I think you're veering into semantics which aren't at issue. I accept your correction, but I think we can use the word as a wieldy and adequate substitute for 'pre-Christian polytheist.'

Illmatic, the Evoking Pan thread discusses a pretty standard-issue pastoral god, I think. There's a well-documented line of descent from that to agricultural types like Attis to cosmopolitan types like Zeus and Poseidon... though it's been a long time since I read the Golden Bough so you'll have to let me be vague here.

Anyway, I can't say as how this is really a very Magicky discussion -- it's superheroes, practically.

sfd, where do you live?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
16:34 / 04.12.02
I'm on the far west coast of Cornwall, near St Ives. On my way to the beach right now in fact....
 
 
illmatic
20:54 / 04.12.02
Sfd: In a word, exactly. This is the magicial dimension of nature to me. Doesn't even have to be on that scale - just the feelings of peace I get when I'm outside.

Badbh: Cheers for that! Bastard HTML...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
15:33 / 05.12.02
shortfatdyke:
I'm on the far west coast of Cornwall, near St Ives. On my way to the beach right now in fact....

That's Robert Graves country, innit? Yowza.
 
 
Kobol Strom
19:08 / 05.12.02
One of the best 'holidays' I 've ever had,was when I took six days to walk a hundred miles up the west coast of Scotland, along the 'West Highland Way'.The weather was mostly terrible and changed several times a day,its a rugged but beautiful part of the World. I found that my dreams and my outlook began to be so much clearer,and with each step I made, the more aware I became of 'changes' in the environment and the weather that was happening around me.By the end of this trip,I had acquired the skill of being able to look at a point in the distance and know how long it would take to walk there.Simple sounding enough,but it was another kind of connection with the land that we don't often realise.-That our senses can become dulled in such a way.
Things seemed to become sharper,more clear-cut, and even witnessing the slow passing of an entire day can seem monumental.
After this trip I caught the Glasgow Bus home and in 2 hours on a motorway- travelled what it had take me six days to walk.I can hardly remember that bus trip ,but I remember things about the journey from Milngavie to Fort William,and it was over eight years ago.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:47 / 06.12.02
I've never really thought of myself as a pagan as the term seems loaded with so many connotations that I'm not really comfortable aligning myself to. As someone said above, whilst the word 'pagan' really just means a non-Christian, it's modern usage seems to refer to a very specific post-1960's cultural phenomena of re-constructed and re-imagined 'nature religions' such as Wicca, modern Druidry, some of the Northern Trad. based religions, and sometimes even some of the Golden Dawn based traditions by some odd extension of the term. Neo-pagan is probably a more accurate term, but this almost refutes the imagined lineage that followers of these various modern forms of 'alternate' religion are literally or metaphorically claiming for themselves.

Obviously I'm making vast sweeping generalisations here, and in actual practice I imagine that no two Pagan's beliefs are quite alike, but I'm talking about 'Neo-Paganism' as a broad cultural phenomena rather than at an individual level. I'm not trying to diss any individual pagans or wiccans or whatever. There's just something about this kind of modern paganism that doesn't really sit well with me. I can't quite define what it is exactly, but there's an observed tendency for a lot of received knowledge to be taken as fact, without personal experimentation and questioning, and a tendency for all sorts of very different things to get lumped in together. Most of this is quite common to 'New Age' thinking as a whole, and I really think that Neo-Paganism is just the more respectable end of the New Age movement.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, as my general standpoint on these things is that if, say, Wicca is working really well for someone then that's every bit as valid as practising something like chaos magick. I think I'm really just trying to nail some of odd connotations that I tend to attach to the term 'pagan', and why I don't like using it in connection with myself.

But all that's kind of veering away from the subject a little, so I'll talk about nature stuff for a bit. I think going outside to practice magick is pretty essential to a healthy magickal life, and you're cutting yourself off from a lot of stuff if you perform all of your magick inside a fairly controlled environment such as a flat, or designated temple space.

From a shamanic perspective all of these things outside are alive and packed with energy that can be worked with in a magickal sense. Granted, all the synthetic objects in your house can be considered as 'alive' in a similar shamanic sense - but perhaps not to the same extent as those that are living, growing and breathing such as birds, plants, trees, animals, insects, and so on.

I think one method of connecting to this is to find a quiet spot (if you're in the city, maybe a park or garden which might not be overly busy in winter) and do an exercise such as Chi Kung or maybe Rune stances. There's the thing in Chi Kung of drawing in 'Earth Chi' from the ground and 'Heaven Chi' from the sky, which can lead to an incredible sense and understanding of yourself as a small part of a vast cosmic eco-system. Drawing 'energy' from both the planet Earth that you're standing on, and from the solar system and larger universe which both you and the planet exist within.

Jan Fries talks about the importance of establishing 'nature contacts' in one of his books, which I think is on the mark, as getting out in the open does seems to have a replenishing effect on me. I live in the city, but I was brought up by the sea, and whenever I go home I always take long walks and just soak up the place. Gives an incredible feeling of being energised and alive. There's something undeniably magickal about jagged cliffs, crashing waves, ruined castles, and ancient graveyards - and to ignore all of this and focus on little drawings on post-it notes doesn't sound like any kind of option to me. A part of me really yearns for this kind of environment, and I sometimes wonder about what kind of magician I'd be if I was still living there, scrying in rock pools, working sorcery with the Spirits of the Sea, constructing strange totemic devices from found objects washed up on the beach, etc...

But this is not to say that you can't approach living in the City from this same magickal perspective. London is an incredible magickal terrain, and it only takes a bit of research and effort to unlock a fantastical forgotten city that most inhabitants seem completely oblivious to. There's a phantasmagoria of city sights and sounds and colours and tastes which can be read as direct communication with the Spirit world. It's different from the wildness of 'nature contact' in the above sense - but it's no less magickal. Soho has its own distinct magickal personality in much the same way as any secluded forest grove or cliff top. I think it's all about being able to tune into the language of these places in such a way that you start to receive information, and perhaps some of this material might be usefully incorporated into sorcery, or it might be divinatory in nature, or it could just be considered a communication with the Divine manifesting itself as the formation of trees, the movement of cats, messages on a discarded newspaper, or graffiti on the walls of an abandoned building.
 
 
illmatic
07:02 / 07.12.02
Kobol: Cheers for your thoughts, that's exactly the sort of experience I was thinking about - and want more of in the coming year.

GL: ditto, and d'you have a write up of a qi gong exercise like that that you can post here?

(If anyone here spots a strange man in Clissold Park carrying this out, approach me - "you are Illmatic and I claim my five pounds")
 
 
cusm
17:07 / 11.12.02
I've been round and round this one all before. The best I can say for modern pagans is that Pagan isn't a religion, its a lifestyle. You can draw some fairly accurate guesses as to the sort of religions a person calling themselves pagan might follow, but by and large its more a scene than anything else.
 
 
SteppersFan
14:54 / 19.12.02
My take on this is that for chaos magick is more intellectually satisfying and paganism and to a degree Wicca is more emotionally satisfying. The base-level of conceptualising and critique that you get in chaos magick seems somewhat more sophisicated and intellectually informed than the screeds you have to memorise in Wicca (I'm an initiated Wiccan witch). But the emotional engagement that I got at what seemed to be a primal, archetypal level from Wiccan coven magick was immensely, fantastically satisfying and way beyond what I got from Chaos magick and other paths. Clearly this is influenced by one's outlook and orientation, but I think there's a glimmer of substance to this perception.

But back to Illmatic's original point. I've always needed to get out into the country to recharge my spiritual batteries and this need gets stronger the older I get. Similarly I've always been fascinated by the magickal potential of urban landscapes, but this fascination gets more theoretical as I get older. Mind you I still think that cities like London, York, Sheffield and Bristol have heaps of magick secrets to experience -- but I wouldn't willingly live in London again, it sucks the jiuce out of me!
 
  
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