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Underground > Comic Books >

Dehumanizing the Invisibles?

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03:27 / 02.12.02

Recently I've re-read the entire series. For a few months now I've been reading a lot of topics about the Invisibles here. Most of them deal with John A'Dreams and time/fiction suits and the Horus Child and the Memeplex... but, I dunno, I think all that's good and all, and I'll admit it's a fun comic to theorize about, but... I do think there's more to it then that. All this theoretical talk, I feel, can sometimes make discussions about The Invisibles sound kind of... clinical maybe? It's easy to say that all the characters are just glyphs in a spell and all that. But re-reading the series, I found that it was still the characters that interested me the most. And various scenes. Like the scene in Volume 3 where Edith said that in the end only love and kindness matter, or something like that. That really moved me. More then any of the fiction suit/John A'Dreams/Horus stuff. Maybe I'm just a soppy sentimentalist at heart (probably). But I think there are other aspects of the Invisibles to discuss other then just themes. The human side of it.

Like, I don't know... which character wore the best footwear? God, anything for a change of pace.

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03:32 / 02.12.02

Or the scene where you saw Miles holding Beryll's hand with a pained expression on his face saying that he "had no compassion". I don't know why but I found that one panel very moving too. It helped me see Sir Miles in a whole different light (like an earlier scene where he watched a fox be devoured as a child). And I really felt pity for him when he killed himself.

Or the scene where Lord Fanny unmasks Quimper and kisses him. I liked that. Or when Tom O'Bedlam saw himself as a young man in Volume 1. Or when King Mob threw away his gun at the end of Volume 2.

Of course, all the scenes I mentioned probably have some thematic points anyway, but still...

15:23 / 02.12.02

I liked to see King Mob throwing up after shooting those guys. Almost threw up myself while looking at the guy with the blasted jaw. That was a nice sequence full of narrative and characterisation tones. Fanny's comment about making every place they visit a butchery was good, and then one of those dead guys watch started beeping pulling down the freak threshold of everyone.

15:32 / 02.12.02

I agree, Sypha - I found many moments of the series emotive. It is, of course, conceptually fascinating too.

Intellectuals, and would-be intellectuals such as myself are perhaps a little untrusting of emotive language, though.

18:56 / 02.12.02

Audrey Murray saving King Mob, the man who killed her husband.

I honestly cried.

19:01 / 02.12.02

Yeah, when I realised that (I read the thing in a funny order) I got goosebumps on the back of my neck.

19:03 / 02.12.02

The greatest emotional jolts in THE INVISIBLES come from the flip-flopping of your expectations--you think you know who to root for, and then Grant makes the "good guys" scary as hell, or makes you feel for the "bad guys."

It happens a number of times, but the one that hits me hardest is at theend of Volume 1: Miss Dwyer, under the influence of Key 17, sees the coffee mug that says WORLD'S GREATEST DAD... and the most frightening creature on this planet suddenly becomes a figure of sympathy, weeping poisonous black tears... and Jim Crow puts her out of her horrible misery with kindness and a kiss: the man in the black hat, answering the prayers of the damned, dealing out death like a blessing.

20:43 / 02.12.02

So... if Sir Miles was drinking tea from a Mug that says "world's greatest Dad"

it makes me wonder what that kid's story is . . .

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20:52 / 02.12.02

Well, I wouldn't necessarily call myself an emotive person, I like to see myself as a cynical, but sometimes I come across things that move me deeply. What's odd about Grant Morrison's work is that, while it is very intellectual, at the same time it can also be very emotional. Like the end of issue 3 of "The Filth" which brings tears to my eyes. Or the sight of Tony the cat slowly dying at the end of Filth #6.

Of course, I'm very emotional when it comes to cats, it's one of my only soft spots.

What I like about King Mob is that he starts to show humanity as the series progresses (like the above note of how he thew up after killing that Yakuza guy). It's not like some James Bond film where Bond mows down a bunch of "bad guys" with no compassion. Odd, Mob starts off as James Bond but at the end of the series he's almost like the anti-Bond.

18:44 / 03.12.02

well... does that make James Bond & Bruce Lee polar opposites?

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20:48 / 03.12.02

beats me, I'm not really familiar with Bruce Lee's work.

Supposedly he didn't use guns though.

22:01 / 03.12.02

Sypha et. al.

One of the things I like about Barebelith is the theoretical discussions, which you can't find elsewhere on other comic forums. So, I pleasantly disagree with Sypha.

That said - if you want a change of pace - :-)

QUESTION FOR ALL -

Who had the bigger penis in your opinion?
a) King Mob
b) Mr. 6
c) Lord Fanny
d) Sir Miles

my answer - Sir Miles. The name is a dead give away.

23:01 / 03.12.02

Sypha, I defenitely agree. When I read the end of Volume III, the talk about Gods and what happened to John went over my head, but the reunion between Robin and KM connected, and was more powerful than any of that material. The series works on so many levels, but to me, the most important is in the characters, and how they grow and interact. Some of my favorite moments:

-Jack and Fanny dance for the Harlequinade
-King Mob and Jacqui reminiscing about their time together, and how they were "so fucking cool."
-The entire House of Fun story, particularly the afformentioned "World's Greatest Dad" panel, Jack giving Sir Miles his aura
-The last two issues of Kissing Mister Quimper, which were the high point of the series for me
-Best Man Fall
-Audrey Murray saving Mob
-The psychic war in Entropy in the UK

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02:51 / 04.12.02

dlotemp, I have no problem with theorizing. I'm just looking for a change of pace for once.

Actually, some of my favorite scenes were the Mason Lang ones, esp. the scene he has with King Mob at the end of Volume 2 and his chat with Mob in Volume 3 in India about the different races.

03:14 / 04.12.02

Who had the bigger penis in your opinion?
a) King Mob
b) Mr. 6
c) Lord Fanny
d) Sir Miles

I can't resist.

There is the theory that the guy with the biggest truck/swimming pool/trophy wife's fake tits is compensating for the smallest schlong. In this case, the clue is the biggest title. You have a King, a Lord, a Sir, and a mere Mr. This would rank "Mr." Six first, (why does he need a big title? He has a big wang) followed by "Sir" Miles, "Lord" Fanny, and "King" Mob comes in last. (Perhaps explaining his fondness for guns.)

Besides, Mr. Six could pass for a 70s porn star, right? Maybe he even WAS a 70s porn star. Then again, if that were so, his name would have been something like "Mr. Twelve."

03:15 / 04.12.02

I adore the metaphor of kissing like gloves turning themselves inside out.

...or however it was he phrased it.

09:11 / 04.12.02

One of my favorite moments so far (I'm just beginning to read the series):
The look in Jack Frost's face, just after he's re-baptized by Tom O'Bedlam in Vol 1, laying down on the ground, looking up to the sky. It's just so calm and peaceful. I almost cried there.

The Natural Way

09:48 / 04.12.02

I'm just about one of the most sentimental assholes out there. The end of Flex still brings a sniffle to my eye. But the Invisibles?

- Yeah, Miss Dwyer.
- Best Man Fall. It reads like a bardo-trip.
- "Is all now love". "King Mob" suddenly seems so sad and small and...childlike.
- Everyone loves it, but here's another vote: "I had no compassion....no compassion...."
- "...when we were little motherfuckers..." Oh, that whole thing with Gaz...
- "My name's..." Barbelith cracking like a boiled egg and we're all one. Just lovely.
- The pornoplasm morphing into Robin at the end of the world that was.

So much of it. It's those "Woooah!" and "Aaaah..." moments that make Grant worth reading.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:00 / 04.12.02

Having just gone back and read the whole motherfucker from start to finish again, I still have to say "Best Man Fall" is one of the comics that has moved me the most in the last few years.

And yeah, a lot of "The Invisibles" is a drama of ideas- but what makes it work is the fact that (for me at least) the characters CAN be empathised with (on both sides). Surely that's what makes good "philosophical/magical/whatever-the-fuck" fiction work?

That's why (flippant last sentence to heartfelt post) they make movies of PKD's STORIES, rather than his "Exegesis".

Our Lady of The Two Towers

12:56 / 04.12.02

Mr Tricks So... if Sir Miles was drinking tea from a Mug that says "world's greatest Dad"
it makes me wonder what that kid's story is . . .

It was actually the technician/doctor working with Miles that was drinking from that cup, and he gets killed at the end of 'Entropy in the UK'.

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13:48 / 04.12.02

I thought Mr. Reddy had the biggest penis.

It definetly was NOT Mr. Gelt.

17:01 / 04.12.02

Oh, aye, Mr. Reddy...

Of the others, I'd go for:

1. Mr.Six
2. Lord Fanny
3. King Mob
4. Sir Miles

I like to believe 'bad' bastards have the smallest cocks.

17:21 / 04.12.02

When I think of bits in the Invisibles that make me melt, the one that always gets me for some reason is Boy, making contact with Barbelith. Specifically the way that she says, in a tiny voice:

'hi.'

She's been made to feel disgust and horror at herself, she was just looking into the face of her enemy--but suddenly she's a shy three-year-old, a little afraid but knowing she can trust who she's just meeting now.

I can't explain it properly, but I get chills.

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18:50 / 04.12.02

One scene I liked was the scene in the "London" issue where Dane remembered killing that one soilder and the way he closes his eyes in pain of the memory after remembering. A great scene that works with little to no dialogue.

20:17 / 04.12.02

One nice moment not mentioned so far -

Dane attaining transcendence and giving Jesus the thumbs up. So casual and natural a gesture like great truths should be. Very nice.

Also, I thought the bonding between Dane and Fanny during their meeting with the Harlequinade captured what it's like to become friends with someone. Most of the other Invisibles were enforced comrades with Dane but Fanny felt like a real friend. Morrison has a wonderful grasp of the down to earth.

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20:20 / 04.12.02

It's very poignant especially when you consider how much Jack detested Fanny when they first met.

23:32 / 04.12.02

-"Who the fuck's cock was that?" -one of my favorite scenes.

What I dig most about the Invisibles is how it's not only multiple stories every time you read it, but a launch point for multiple discussions in the real world. I thought I had the story licked, then I come here and read what you fuckers, both intel and pseudo, had to say, and suddenly I'm reading the same books with different stories.

I find that I can't stop thinking about the story as a whole, to the point where I find connections in almost any aspect of everyday life. And what keeps bringing me back to the story is the sensory and intellectual overload, the mad soup of ideas.

My daughter asked me the other day who Jack Frost was, and in the middle of the grocery store I tore off into a breathless tirade that summarized Dane McGowan as a character in the Invisibles. She of course meant Jack Frost, he of the winter chill, etc. You should have seen the looks from the shoppers around us...

Murray Hamhandler

00:45 / 05.12.02

I think that there's quite a bit to Edith's comment that "It all comes down to compassion in the end" (or somesuch). One of the major themes of The Invisibles (perhaps...the theme?), I would imagine. Realizing that harm done to one is harm done to all (including oneself) and whatnot and...why not just have some compassion for others? Rambling, rambling. This makes my heart swell.

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03:31 / 05.12.02

Great, now I've gone and got us all touchy-feely. Time for a group hug.

10:48 / 05.12.02

Awwwww - big hugs now..... Who the fuck's cock was that?

15:20 / 11.12.02

Sorry. Couldn't control myself.

Fave Invis bit: Robin spiralling into the great red orb of Barbelith outside of Time, whispering "Namu Amida Bhutsu...". 'All Tomorrow's Parties' is probably my fave issue in the whole run.

I also really feel sorry for the bloke in 'Royal Monsters', you know the complete fuckup Invisibles agent whose daughter betrays him and is then murdered in front of his eyes and who fails to kill the shoggoth in the basement, to which he is eventually said. I think it was reading issue #'s 11 & 12 that made me decide that I really did like the series a whole lot. The end of #11 is great and (despite all the whining about his Vol III fuckups) Ridgers delivers a great job with the artwork.

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19:21 / 11.12.02

I thought Ridgeway's artwork was great in Royal Monsters, though I didn't like how he drew Miles in that one. I preferred his Miles in "Invisible Kingdom", who looks younger there for some reason. But Royal Monsters was a great issue, very Lovecraftian, and I felt bad for that Moonchild servant guy who felt so bad for the Moonchild that he couldn't bring himself to kill it.