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Who is Kurt Vonnegut?

 
  

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rizla mission
20:47 / 27.04.04
Then you'll love 'Venus in a Halfshell', the volume of Kilgore Trout stories written by .. was it Philip Jose Farmer..? Cos that's essentially what it is.

Many people say it's rubbish though sadly, Vonnegut included.
 
 
Tom Coates
21:30 / 27.04.04
Vonnegut is one of my all-time favourite authors and Slaughterhouse 5 one of my all-time favourite books. You can see the influence he had on Douglas Adams with Sirens of Titan, but it's the later work that strays between jaded autobiography and tremendous imaginative insight that really works for me.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
21:45 / 27.04.04
Why has no one mentioned "Bluebeard"?! I've read every single Vonnegut book, and this one is by far the best to me. So poignant and special. It's such a beautiful portrayal of friendship, non-romantic love, art, memory, growing old. Mother Night, Deadeye Dick, and Hocus Pocus are my 3 other favorites. I'm more into Vonnegut's strangely realistic novels than his strange novels, if you get what I mean.
 
 
flufeemunk effluvia
22:41 / 27.04.04
I loved Hocus Pocus. It had all those lovely bits of neurotic innocence (using numbers in their numeral form, never using curse words) combined with the darker bits of a person (the number of people he had killed/made love to).
 
 
TeN
21:27 / 28.04.04
I read Cat's Cradle two years ago and just re-read it a few months ago. After that, I read Slaughterhouse 5, which I just finished, and although I'm currently working on 1984, I have a pile of Vonegut (including Player Piano, God Bless You Mr. Rosewater, Sirens of Titan, Mother Night, and Welcome to the Monkey House among others) sitting on my bookshelf which I plan to read sometime soon.

He's absolutely fucking brilliant.
Every sentance he writes is instantly recognizable as Vonnegut. He has no peers, no imitators, he stands alone.

I don't have the time now, but later I'll get some good quotes from his books and post them here so you can get a sense for his style.
 
 
foot long subbacultcha
07:47 / 30.04.04
My favourite so far is Mother Night. My own experience of reading it was strange because a lot of it was synchronous to events I was going through myself. It's about monogamy and altruism. A beautiful novel, and quite separate to the other Vonneguts(i think).
 
 
TeN
01:38 / 02.05.04
I promised I get quotes, and I did. (isn't the internet wonderful?) For anyone who cares, here they are...





It is so short and jumbled and jangled, Sam, because there is nothing intelligent to say about a massacre. Everybody is supposed to be dead, to never say anything or want anything ever again. Everything is supposed to be very quiet after a massacre, and it always is, except for the birds. And what do the birds say? All there is to say about a massacre, things like "Poo-tee-weet?"
- Slaughterhouse-Five

And the people would eat up all the food, gobble, gobble, yum, yum, and it would become excrement and memories. What then for little Ecuador?
- Galapagos

If I were a younger man, I would write a history of human stupidity; and I would climb to the top of Mount McCabe and lie down on my back with my history for a pillow; and I would take from the ground some of the blue-white poison that makes statues of men; and I would make a statue of myself, lying on my back, grinning horribly, and thumbing my nose at You Know Who.
- Cat's Cradle

I am a Tralfamadorian, seeing all time as you might see a stretch of the Rocky Mountains. All time is all time. It does not change. It does not lend itself to warnings or explanations. It simply is.
- Slaughterhouse-Five

"You sound as if you don't believe in free will," said Billy Pilgrim.
"If I hadn't spent so much time studying Earthlings," said the Tralfamadorian, "I wouldn't have any idea what was meant by 'free will.' I've visited thirty-one inhabited planets in the universe, and I have studied reports of one hundred more. Only on Earth is there any talk of free will."
- Slaughterhouse-Five

To the as-yet-unborn, to all innocent wisps of undifferentiated nothingness: Watch out for life.
I have caught life. I have come down with life. I was a wisp of undifferentiated nothingness, and then a little peephole opened quite suddenly. Light and sound poured in. Voices began to describe me and my surroundings.
- Deadeye Dick

What is the purpose of life?...To be the eyes and ears and conscience of the Creator of The Universe, you fool.
- Breakfast of Champions

Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, "Why, why, why?"
Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.
- Cat's Cradle

We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different!
- Timequake

He was enchanted by the mystery of coming ashore naked on an unfamiliar island. He resolved to let the adventure run its full course, resolved to see just how far a man might go, emerging naked from salt water.
- Cat's Cradle

I think that scientific persons of the future will scoff at scientific persons of the present. They will scoff because scientific persons of the present thought so many important things were superstitions.
- The Manned Missiles (short story from Welcome to the Monkey House)

When a Tralfamadorian sees a corpse, all he thinks is that the dead person is in a bad condition in that particular moment, but that same person is just fine in plenty of other moments. Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug and say what the Tralfamadorians say about dead people, which is "So it goes."
- Slaughterhouse-Five

Trout was the only character I ever created who had enough imagination to suspect that he might be the creation of another human being. He had spoken of this possibility several times to his parakeet.
- Breakfast of Champions (I think... correct me if I'm wrong on this one)
 
 
TeN
20:58 / 03.05.04
I just read Harrison Bergeron last night and it was incredible. I didn't really like the end part though, where Harrison and the ballarina are floating in the air, it just threw me off a little bit. The dialouge at the very end is brilliant though...
"I forget," she said, "Something real sad on television."
Fucking brilliant!
And my favorite quote (although those who haven't read it won't get it) has to be, "It was such a doozy that George was white and trembling, and tears stood on the rims of his red eyes. Two of the eight ballerinas had collapsed to the studio floor, were holding their temples."
The whole casual style that he writes it in, it just makes it so much more absurd. If you've never read this story, go to your library now, check out a book called Welcome to the Monkey House by Kurt Vonnegut and read it. You won't be sorry.
 
 
Lord Morgue
11:37 / 17.05.04
Anyone seen the film of Harrisson Bergeron? I'm half tempted to, just to see what kind of car crash hollywood makes by applying virtual reality and cyberpunk as an anal suppository to a Vonnegut story.
 
 
+#'s, - names
02:28 / 18.05.04
He wrote an essay recently for common dreams dot org, you can read here.
 
 
Proinsias
09:56 / 12.04.07
Kurt Vonnegut died yesterday, 84.

BBC article

I've still not read half as many of his works as I would like. I've got a fair few unread books on the shelf and I rekon I'll be cutting through them over the next month or two.

I was going to start a new thread but the search shows two Vonnegut threads, one of which is locked. It would be a shame to only be allowed an extra thread once you're dead.
 
 
Proinsias
10:04 / 12.04.07
Shit, I should have looked a little closer in convo still at least his memory should live a little longer 'round these parts.
 
 
Twig the Wonder Kid
20:10 / 12.04.07

Sob

60 years of writing and not a dull sentence.
 
 
sine
09:10 / 13.04.07
I find myself at something of a loss for words. Hard to top "So it goes", really. For years I've been trying to get my shit together to go meet Vonnegut and never did; this spurs me to new efforts with Ellison.
 
 
rizla mission
09:04 / 16.04.07
I've gotta say, I'm disappointed with the general lack of Barbelith response to Vonnegut's death.

Would have thought it was deserving of a new thread at the very least, but never mind.

My own tribute can be found here.
 
 
sleazenation
10:15 / 16.04.07
But there IS a new thread, Riz - it's linked to a few posts up and is in the conversation...
 
 
Fraser C
10:30 / 16.04.07
I urge everyone who hasn't to read "Mother Night". It's a real treat.

Vonnegut's resonance lies in the fact that he was for people, which so few of us are these days.
 
 
rizla mission
10:33 / 16.04.07
But there IS a new thread, Riz - it's linked to a few posts up and is in the conversation...

Oh... oops, missed that thread. My mistake!
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:27 / 20.04.07
Finished reading Sirens of Titan and really enjoyed it. Particularly liked the way that all the characters were deplorable in some fashion, and whenever I started to feel complacent about them, began to sympathize in some small way with their plight, they did or said something to remind me. Roomford especially. I liked them and I disliked them at the same time, they felt complex, and the ultimate revelation about Roomford's goals and motivations...I think, in the end, I could only wholeheartedly sympathize with Salo of all people.

The identity-swapping/renaming/miasma was pretty good. I like that it wasn't immediately apparent when you get to the second section that ____ is ____.

Onto Cat's Cradle, which is slower to pull me in than Sirens. After this I've got Bluebeard. I'm enjoying my little obsessive Vonnegut cram session.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:37 / 26.11.07
Just started God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater, and after only a chapter and a half I want to sit and read this book all day, rather than bumble around work doing work-things. The set-up is quite crisp, and I find his "roving eye" style of story logic and narrative rivers is less showy and desperate than, say, that of Tom Robbins. It's a Kilgore Trout book, and I haven't read one of those in a long time.
 
 
eye landed
16:59 / 04.12.07
its been a while since i was into vonnegut, but i was recently wondering about the 'vonnegut universe'. kilgore trout appears in many books, eliot rosewater in a few, tralfamadorians in a few, etc.

apart from player piano, most of the books seem to take place in the same universe. what i need is some kind of 'degrees of separation' thing: two books can be tied together by showing that a particular character appears in both.

i will start off with a complete list (from wikipedia); novels only, because short stories vary too much (is kilgore trout, etc in any of them?)

player piano (1952)
sirens of titan (1959)
mother night (1961)
cats cradle (1963)
god bless you, mr. rosewater (1965)
slaughterhouse-five (1969)
breakfast of champions (1973)
slapstick (1976)
jailbird (1979)
deadeye dick (1982)
galapagos (1985)
bluebeard (1987)
hocus pocus (1990)
timequake (1997)

then a few easy ones...

kilgore trout appears in:
god bless you, mr. rosewater
slaughterhouse-five
breakfast of champions
timequake
jailbird

tralfamadorians appear in:
slaughterhouse-five
sirens of titan
?

can we manage to tie the rest in?

another point of discussion would be whether this is a valid exercise. for example, kilgore trout doesnt seem to be the same character every time his name is used.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:45 / 04.12.07
They're not necessarily consistent, no, between books. The details may vary but they're usually fulfilling the same sort of role with their stories. I'm not sure it's entirely worth it to chart out how the books all fit together, since they often seem more like parallel universes. That said, it's interesting to look at how a character progresses, maybe, throughout them. Or how Vonnegut relates to each character, particularly old Kilgore.

The lawyer, Mushari, appears both in God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater and Slapstick; in the first, he's trying to get the very large sum of money out of Eliot Rosewater by way of a lawsuit levelled against Eliot by his distant cousin. In Slapstick, he's representing Eliza Swain against her brother, Wilbur Daffodil-11 Swain. The details and his role in the book differ, he's much more central a figure to God Bless You, but he serves roughly the same function in both. Self-interested lawyer looking to score some bucks by taking advantage of familial animosity. He's almost archetypal, actually.

Both books -- keep in mind I'm reading them less than a week apart so they're quite fresh -- have to do with families, both self-generated and blood, and Mushari is there to "remind" characters of self-interest and individual pettiness. That said, he seems to be a generally nobler (to a point) character (for the brief time he appears) in Slapstick, though we aren't privy to his intentions so I could be misreading.

Maybe I haven't read enough of them yet to chart Kilgore's progress, but I'm wondering if his character varies more depending on how much of a Vonnegut Surrogate he's meant to be or acts as in a given story. He's always seemed roughly the same in the ones I've read.
 
 
grant
16:02 / 05.12.07
I've always had the feeling that Trout is more than a surrogate - he's sort of an externalization of Vonnegut's feelings about being pigeonholed as a science fiction writer, I think. A way of alternately laughing at, celebrating and pitying his role in the world. Not himself, but his role.

The "Theodore Sturgeon" thing feeds into my reading.

Now that I think of it, there's a kind of thread of surreal autobiography in other writings contemporary with those novels, isn't there? I'm thinking of Robert Crumb climbing the thighs of those enormous women, and Hunter Thompson writing himself as a parody of what (as far as I can tell) he actually was.

Kilgore Trout as Gonzo Ich Roman, maybe?
 
 
rizla mission
07:46 / 06.12.07
All of Vonnegut's books, even the strangest ones, are autobiographical to a degree, but I've never seen Kilgore Trout as being a direct surrogate for the author. Possibly he started life as a representation of the role KV saw himself playing at a certain point in his life, but on the whole I see Trout as standing more for the archetype of the neglected genius sci-fi hack... sometimes you can almost imagine him as a loving pastiche of Philip K. Dick or Robert Sheckley.

I think the more obviously autobiographical characters in Vonnegut are the protagonists of books like "Cat's Cradle" and "Bluebeard". He gives them a new job, a new name and a new family history, but it's basically Kurt, and the books are all the more honest and powerful as a result.

Also of course, Vonnegut himself has a tendency to turn up in his books, hanging out and conversing with Kilgore Trout in "Breakfast Of Champions" and "Timequake"...
 
 
rizla mission
07:48 / 06.12.07
What's the "Theodore Sturgeon thing" by the way?
 
 
grant
15:03 / 06.12.07
"-ore" + fish... seems like the one was named after the other.

Theodore Sturgeon kinda rocks.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:23 / 06.12.07
I'm right in the middle of Timequake now and loving it for its randomness. It really reminds of Borges, with the "talking about a book rather than presenting the book." Among other things, it just reminds me of how long Trout has been around, to the point of being addressed and treated as a very real entity to Vonnegut.

Which is interesting given Trout's own feelings on writing three-dimensional people (the world's full of them already, why does he have to create more in his stories).
 
 
rizla mission
07:49 / 07.12.07
Yes, Theodore Sturgeon is terrific. One of the only old school SF writers whom I can still always find time for, and his "law" has been a cornerstone of my thinking for longer than I care to remember.
 
 
grant
16:58 / 18.12.07
"The Big Space Fuck" online.

Weird little story.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:31 / 20.12.07
Weird and beautiful, even if it's a rather abrupt ending and the whole thing isn't nearly as polished as some other Vonnegut stuff. It feels very Troutish, actually.

I tend to like the idea of expletives and bad language being broken down and absorbed into the culture, devoid of shock value...
 
 
buttergun
04:57 / 23.12.07
What's Slapstick like? I never see it mentioned much.

I've read a lot of Vonnegut's novels, and I think I enjoyed "Breakfast of Champions" most. Actually I enjoyed "Venus On the Half-Shell" most, but that's Phillip Jose Farmer writing as Kilgore Trout (I've read Vonnegut gave Farmer the okay for this, then took it back when fans started writing him ((Vonnegut)) saying "Venus" was their favorite Vonnegut novel).
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
05:03 / 23.12.07
Slapstick is actually quite beautiful in its gaudy, ridiculous way. It's interesting to watch the narrator's progression from a sympathetic character to an unsympathetic one and then back again; in the end it feels like a call for decency and mutual respect that seems the basis of all Vonnegut's books. I'd recommend it.

I used to really like Breakfast, but now I'm left thinking God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater tops the cake. With Sirens of Titan just underneath.
 
 
The Idol Rich
08:27 / 17.01.08
Happy Birthday, Wanda June
It's a play. It ran for 142 performances from October, 1970 to March, 1971, with a lot of glitches and rewrites over the duration. It's brilliant, it's a quick read, it's got a weird Homer's Odyssey meets the 70s thing. Maybe not the best piece to start Vonnegut on, but definitely worth reading for the inititated.


Glad you mentioned that one as everyone else I know seems not to rate it. I actually found it on the road after I had been accidentally locked in a friend's house when she went to work. Trapped in the house with nothing to do I watched a cartoon adaptation of The Odyssey, on my final release I walked through Hackney and spied a bright pink book in the gutter, on seeing it was Vonnegut I picked it up and took it home and was amazed at the coincidence (for those who don't know it's a modern re-working of the end of The Odyssey with a pacifist emphasis).
Needless to say I loved it, I passed it on to my girlfriend and she hated it and everywhere I've seen it mentioned it gets bad reviews which I don't understand at all.
In general with Vonnegut, I can see what people are saying regarding the cuteness or faux-naivete but for me he just about gets away with it. I think it's tempered by the strong moral sense and weariness that someone also mentioned which are both ever-present.
 
  

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