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I'd rather go naked...

 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:43 / 20.11.02
Sophie Ellis Bextor is getting some column inches and exposure through reviving PETA's I'd Rather Go Naked Than Wear Fur campaign.

I was last aware of the campaign (not being a great fan of pictures of naked women) when Britney chickened out.

Some of the other supermodels who have bared their all for a good cause have since furred up, like Cindy Crawford and Naomi Campbell.

As a lapsed vegetarian and unprincipled old leather queen, I have to ask myself why fur is more objectionable than other bits of dead animals put to human use of one kind or another. It would seem hypocritical to abjure fur and not the whole shooting match of rare steak and leather belts but perhaps three wrongs don't make one right.

Anybody feel their plush hackles rising?
 
 
Brigade du jour
21:35 / 20.11.02
So these models were hypocrites.

See, the thing about hypocrisy is it's a crime ... but we're all guilty of it in some way. Therefore it doesn't pay to be too pious, but then maybe we all have to strive to be better than our instincts dictate.

Sorry if that was too philosophical an answer, I've been reading books and thinking for myself again. Tch.
 
 
Turk
00:49 / 21.11.02
I suppose eating animals, and testing on animals for that matter, do serve a practical function - nutrition and healthcare. Fashion doesn't, you have less justification for the suffering of the animals. Simple.
 
 
Baz Auckland
18:53 / 21.11.02
...and remember PETA disapproves of having pets, so wearing fur is as bad to them as eating steak...

Wearing fur before, back in the 80s when it was big (I'm guessing?), was a status thing, and that made it much worse. I heard that fur was "making a comeback". Is that true?
 
 
Saint Keggers
21:24 / 21.11.02
Im wondering if the fox used in the photo died a natural death before it was used in the campaign or did they steal one from a furrier?
 
 
Turk
00:27 / 22.11.02
I'm sure they painfully slaughtered it specially for the shot.
 
 
Turk
04:34 / 22.11.02
I'm sorry that was sarcastic and mean. To be honest I don't think it matters where they got it so long as it was already dead.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
18:13 / 22.11.02
I've never worn fur that I can recall although I have worn leather all my life, apart from a short period of trying to be a vegan when I discovered that you can get excellent meat-effect DM's but found it damned hard to buy gloves or belts that had never run around on a farm.

A vegan chap at work, all round good guy, who rides a motorcycle was telling me the other day that, although all his bike gear is synthetic, he has never managed to find gloves which did the job properly without "relaxing" his principles.

When I was required by the ancestral ritual of my tribe to purchase a kilt and the paraphernalia which accompanies it (sheesh, the expense!), I found the thought of the customary dead badger for a sporran too much and got myself a nice wee black leather sporran (with shiny SM studs on). I was then and still am puzzled as to why I felt the treated epidermis of one animal was preferable to another. It seemed at the time more than an aesthetic judgment. When I was in Russia, I was tempted by a cheap, black market traditional fur hat but didn't buy it for the same reason and, frankly, have regretted it often since on a cold winter morning when my reddened ears are stinging.

You have made lots of good points, people, but I'm still pondering why fur and other animal hides seem to be regarded differently. Without "Marlon", my battered old biker jacket, I would have cut much less of a swathe through the Edinburgh gay scene in my thirties. Instead of an average of one shag per year, I'd have had to take up needlepoint or something to while away a Friday night.

Of course, I could indeed have gone naked and probably would have been able to raise a few laughs at least.
 
 
Turk
04:53 / 23.11.02
You have to wonder what leads to this catwalk debate over fur (but not leather), what leads opinions in those circles?

From the press releases the one group that it appears influences minds in fashion are the Animals Rights protestors, largely groups whose ideology relies heavily on the anthropomorphism of cute animals. What luck do the animal lovers have with the flapping fashion-heads when campaigning for the welfare of animals that don't look like household pets? Animals that aren't dirty and stupid, animals flapping fashion-heads don't want to be around.

To be honest I'd like to think they abhor fur but relax on leather on grounds of conservation because those arguments make sense. But that's a more complex subject and I don't know whether flapping fashion-heads would concentrate long enough to listen to it.

I'm rambling, aren't I? Rambling through Ramble City.
 
 
Brigade du jour
05:39 / 23.11.02
Going naked is always an option. Ask Billy Connolly. Ouch.

Mind you, why is it always middle-aged skinny bearded guys who make the political points ... hey, there's a new career possibility for me!

Maybe not.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
10:35 / 23.11.02
I'm enjoying taking the detours through Ramble City with you, D.

I am unsure what leads the agenda re: Animal Rights on the catwalk. I am cynical enough to think that there must be money in it although I know Stella McCartney's stand is ideological and the PETA people seem respectable in the consistency of their stand. I'm sure they would, for instance, have issues with the boiling of the moth chrysalis and with silk farming but that strand of the animal cruelty debate doesn't seem so resonant or so fashionable in the shows.

I don't think any of these arguments is wrong. It may well be me who should be a big boy with fresh batteries in my conscience and return to being a veggie or a vegan. I am puzzled by the apparent hypocrisy however.

Reminds me of Helen Fielding's very funny book Cause Celeb, where the fashionistas decided to tackle world poverty. Sophie E-B seems to be intelligent and articulate. Maybe a few more like her for mouthpieces would help square that circle.

But of course, I am hardly what you'd call informed about "fashion" and probably full of prejudices about the inner lives of pretty, rich people. Maybe I'd be 100% behind the supermodel boys flashing their cute, furry bits for the benefit of cute, furry things.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
10:36 / 23.11.02
But not the naked, jiggly Big Yin! Not what I had in mind at all! Stupid bloody purple beard for one thing...
 
 
Brigade du jour
21:12 / 23.11.02
With you on the purple thing, but I just grew a beard for the first time so I have to side with the (Los Angeles-based) Scotsman on this. No offence sweetie.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
01:33 / 24.11.02
No problem with beards at all (except purple ones), testosterone-packed dude! In fact, that's the kind of fur that does appeal to my trichinological dark side.
 
 
Turk
04:20 / 24.11.02
As far as I can find if there is one main reason beyond personal conscience as to why Animal Rights has been taken up by some designers and fashion gurus. It's grunge-chic, they're stealing thunder from people do feel passionate. A bit like those idiots who dress models up in those awful old duffle coats, only more so.
 
 
Brigade du jour
05:01 / 24.11.02
Easy tiger, is somebody calling me a testosterone-packed dude? Well I ain't no Ted Nugent, but I'd better get back to the subject matter anyway. Or shall we start a Beards topic?
 
 
Ariadne
08:54 / 24.11.02
I think the reason people feel more comfortable with leather (using your example, ZoCher, you choosing a leather sporran) is that it's everywhere. Which doesn't make it any better, but it's just so ubiquitous that you don't see it for what it is - whereas the fur for your sporran makes you stop and think 'Oh. Yeah. Dead.'

As a longtime veggie and recent vegan I'm trying to get rid of leather stuff but it's alarming how much of it there is! I always knew, through 13 years of being veggie, that it wasn't logical to wear leather but I think its ubiquity makes it easier to ignore.

On the animal rights people - there are a lot of groups so it's hard to say 'they' think any one thing. There's an argument for saying that if you eat meat you may as well use the hide too, whereas mink are bred purely for their fur, tigers trapped for theirs, and so on.

On the fashion people - again, it's too easy to lump them all together. I'm sure some people are genuine, and if they get people talking about it then I'm all for it.
 
 
Linus Dunce
15:27 / 24.11.02
You could argue that fashionistas are no less vulnerable to campaigns for the well-being of cute furry animal than "the public." You could also argue that the cute-animal campaigns have momentum and exclusive visibility because they are supported, therefore funded, in a way that ugly, edible animal campaigns aren't. A Darwinian thing.

Don't wear fur myself because I think it would look out of place in the temperate UK. If I were in, say Canada or north-eastern Europe, though, I wouldn't pass by the fur department without looking.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:54 / 24.11.02
I'm a long-time veggie meself. But I wear lots of leather.

I used to use the argument that "well, it's just a by-product, nothing was actually killed to make my jacket/trousers/boots/whatever". Then it occurred to me that that was a really SHIT argument.

I still wear leather stuff. Just- when it wears out, I no longer replace it. Me NOT wearing that jacket isn't gonna bring anything back from the dead. But I'm not chucking money at the fuckers anymore.
 
 
Brigade du jour
20:53 / 24.11.02
That's very wise, Maominstoat. I don't chuck money at anyone, they get upset. Especially if it's coins.

Btw, Sophie Ellis-Bextor does have an odd shaped face, and I think that's part of her charm. She's not blonde, anorexic or obnoxious, so she'd have no place on Hollyoaks (are all women really alike in Chester?) and that is very much to her credit.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:12 / 25.11.02
Fur made a comeback last Autumn/Winter and a very small appearance this season as well but that means that the high street shops are selling fur at the moment. It seems very lame, even to me, but I can't really get enthusiastic about the anti-fur campaign. I wear leather shoes all the time and I'm a total carnivore, the only vegetarian meals I ever eat are pasta or pizza. I truly feel that I'd die of hunger if I became a vege.

Having said that I don't really believe animals should be killed unless we eat them. I just can't seem to combine this belief with my complete lack of horror when I touch real fur. It feels nice and if I was sad everytime I touched part of a dead creature I'd be suicidal by now.

As for the supermodels, their job is to wear what they're told to, to follow the trends and be fashionable. So they wear fur, it's not hypocritical, they're doing exactly what they're paid to do.
 
 
cusm
12:27 / 27.11.02
Cindy Crawford's response is classic of this. She only did the PETA thing because she was hired to do it. PETA of course, mistook this as her being anti-fur, when she was really just doing a job. Oops, hire a model and you hire someone to pose, not to convert to your ideology. Who'd a thought?

As for why the fashion industry, that seems a clear tactic. If fur is made unfashionable, it will hurt the fur industry. Everyone knows the fashion industry controls what people will wear this spring. Something magic about those catwalks that can make bell bottoms sexy, against all reason.

Though really, I find the whole abolotion of animal products entirely unnecessary. There are few things less natural for humans to do than kill animals and use their parts for stuff. Its the cruelty that is sometimes involved in the treatment of cute fuzzy foxes (who would snip your fingers off in a moment if they could, the darlings) that is a reasonable objection. At least with farmed animals you're not unbalancing the ecosystem with overhunting.

And Sophie is a bit funny looking, I'll agree, in a very French sort of way. But also sometimes in a Japanese kind of way with those eyes of hers, which is very hot.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:14 / 29.11.02
Since foxes tend to run away from people and only try to bite because they're scared I think it would be rather unreasonable to punish them for their behaviour.
 
 
Turk
02:47 / 30.11.02
By the way, the dead fox Sophie is holding up in the ad, apparently the folks behind it drove around the countryside for hours one night looking for one.
 
 
gingerbop
22:27 / 14.01.03
U need more small furry things to make a coat, 40 minks if i remember correctly. But you cant make lots of shoes, as well as a damn good stew from a cow (im a vegetarian but thats not the point).

They are hipocrates, and i know everyone is, but thats a bit of a major hipocracy if theyr gonna get so much publicity from it and then turn on it. It also makes the anti-fur orgs look kinda stupid.

But Sophie Ellis Bextor does have the most peculiar head.
 
 
mkt
14:32 / 15.01.03
Thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth.
I have a few second-hand fur items, some given to me and some bought for ridiculously small amounts from second-hand shops. While I don't know if I would buy brand new fur items and thus directly feed the industry, I have no moral problems with wearing old fur jackets or scarves which, let's face it, would only go to waste if I didn't (besides which it's freezing at the moment and I can't afford a new coat).
Some people don't agree with the idea of wearing even old fur though. Could someone explain this to me?

PS My boyfriend shagged Sophie EB in a toilet in Plymouth many years ago.
 
 
Loomis
15:25 / 17.01.03
Some people don't agree with the idea of wearing even old fur though. Could someone explain this to me?

Part of being vege or vegan for many people is to spread the word. Not necessarily through trying actively to convert people, but by setting an example. Because you can't wear old leather/fur for ever. If you expect people to take fake stuff seriously, and believe in it's future, then I think it's a good idea to (a) support the industry by giving them your cash, and (b) wearing it to show people how good it is. Lots of people wouldn't even know it existed if they never saw it, so even if you have access to old stuff, there is a reason why you might rather wear fake leather or fur.

Many people don't think of being vege or vegan as a long term lifestyle, so demonstrating that there are real answers to the questions of meat eaters/wearers is an important part of the lifestyle for some (including myself). Just like how many vegan groups (including PETA) support the Burger King vege burger even though it's not 100% vegan. It raises awareness and helps to make being vege or vegan a real option in the marketplace and in the mind.
 
 
Loomis
15:26 / 17.01.03
Oh, and S.EB is H.O.T - hot.
 
 
Naked Flame
12:31 / 20.01.03
...and remember PETA disapproves of having pets, so wearing fur is as bad to them as eating steak...

I know this is an old thread, but just wanted to point out that PETA doesn't have a problem with pets. I know that nearly all their Euro staff have animals living with them...

I guess that they do have a problem with some pet owners, though (big fish in little tanks, big dogs in small flats, and anything in a small cage is gonna piss off most AR folks.)
 
  
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