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The White Flame

 
 
Seth
09:11 / 20.11.02
Does anyone know the origins of the White Flame Meditation that made an appearance in a double page spread in Invisibles Volume 2? It seems to be mainly a defence against attacks to the identity. For those not familiar with the comic, here's a transcript:

Elfayed: ... "I am an optimist," we say. Or perhaps "I am an American," "I am a Jew," "I am a homosexual," "I am a heterosexual." We call the following the White Flame Meditation.

There. Can anyone tell me exactly what this object is?

Roger: It's a chair.

Elfayed: Is that all? Does that describe the entirety of this object?

Roger: It's an object with four legs and a thing to hold up your ass so you don't have to sit down in the dirt like the rest of us dickheads. Chair.

Elfayed: Yes, a partial description. But if you were an antiques dealer you could also describe this object's agreed worth - somewhere in the region of a quarter of a million dollars. If you were a specialist, you could describe the intricasies of the craftsmanship in detailed jargon.

Mister Six: If you were Van Gogh, you might attempt to describe its soul.

- Elfayed trashes the chair with a sledgehammer -

Mister Six: But where in all of this description is the actual chair? Have we yet come even close to a full description of it? Did we even mention that several hundred years ago, it wasn't a chair but a tree? Where is it now? Here? Or in memory.

Elfayed: We cannot even fully describe a chair and yet we say "I am." "I am..."

Understand there is no "I am." Nothing "is."

Try to describe all that you are. Simultaneously discern the logical flaw in what I've just said.

Now!

Feel the white flame.
 
 
illmatic
10:49 / 20.11.02
Exp: The lingustic stuff in this article reminded me of the General Semantics of Korbyzski, a lot of which can be found in Robert Anton Wilson's books.

The flame stuff reminded me of the idea of fire in this meditation .
One of the meanings attached to Fire in Tantra is that of experience (that which is eaten up and consumed) - this connects with the idea of the sacrifical fire and the cremation ground.
Rather than strengthing personal identity, it illuminates by incinerating our attachments.
 
 
Vadrice
14:18 / 20.11.02
I tried this once and it didn't teach me anything.

~mutters something about overabundance of childhood cognition~

don't ask why. I don't want to ruin it for anyone.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
18:40 / 20.11.02
C'mon Vadrice, don't be shy... Give us the opposition response to the White Flame.
 
 
Vadrice
19:31 / 20.11.02
I'll pm you tommy. No sense ruining it for EVERYONE.
 
 
Sebastian
19:58 / 20.11.02
Okay, it appears I have to write this.

That white flame meditation is indeed derived from basic General Semantics (GS). There are nice tutorials in most sites, and you'll find most of the dialogue above straightly developed from the start. I recommend reading them if you are interested. But I continue to wonder, why the hell is it called in The Invisibles "the white flame meditation"?

Now I'll tell you my little magick secret.

In dreams, in particularly strenuous dreams, use it. I call it "The Universal Antibody" -yeah, I know, why the hell do I call it that, right?

The antibody's linguistic formula is "Whatever you may think something is, it is not.", in dreams, of course, so we have "in dreams, whatever you may think something is, it is not.".

So, if you are dreaming that your house is burning to ashes, just tell yourself that it is not your house, obviously, you are dreaming, you are not looking at your house, which is pretty fine with you sleeping inside.

If you dream your son is being tossed out of the window, then remember that "in dreams, whatever you may think something is, it is not.", so if you think that's your son falling ten stores down to the street, he is not, so proceed with whatever is at hand.

If you dream that your beloved ones are being executed, they are not, so turn around and do your stuff.

You don't need to learn how to lucid dream to do this. Just memorise and program yourself, as you fall asleep, "As I dream, whatever (or whomever) I think something is, it is not, or he is not.".

Oh, and you ask me why "they are not"? Well, just wake up and ask them: "Was it you being tossed through a window in a dream last night?". I take it you are not sharing dreams, of course. And check your house also, did it burn amidst flames while you slept?

If you manage to take a shot of this with something conveying a powerful emotional stress in a dream, and realise that "whatever you think it is, it is not", I can guarantee that the emotional release will be as immense as you can hardly anticipate. And it is also escalating.

Start with people and dream characters portraying your close ones. Whatever it is they are, I can tell you: they are not. If you don't buy this, then do it for the sake of experimentation. But not do it with the happy dreams because you'll spoil them. Do them with the nasty ones. They are lying to you in those dreams, or, rather taking advantage of your little confusion. Don't let them.
 
 
Vadrice
20:04 / 20.11.02
clever of you, Seb.
 
 
Sebastian
10:31 / 21.11.02
Here are some links for those interested in General Semantics and the White Flame concoction, great tools for Invisibility:

This is not That Tutorial

Articles on General Semantics from the ESGS

English without the verb 'to be'

Notes on General Semantics

If you begin to grasp it then read the recommendable Using General Semantics by Susan Presby Kodish, Ph.D. .
 
 
grant
16:11 / 21.11.02
Jeez - that second to last General Semantics link is about spiders. Just like that last thread in the Magick I researched stuff for. And the thread in the Conversation I painstakingly put all the pictures in.

Research is leading me to spiders to general semantics, I guess.
 
 
Kobol Strom
20:34 / 21.11.02
The White Flame meditation seems to be a way of clearing mental objects,like thoughts,away from immediacy.I see consciousness like an actor standing in a Hollywood Western,where all the buildings are 2Dimensional props.As such,they can be percieved from a certain angle as having only their own validity from the point of view of the perciever. We know that 'there is no is',and to be able to see the arbitrary nature of conscious thoughts during meditation frees us from them.The result is the 'actor' becomes isolated in a place without definition or name,that defies description,and is left to embark on an interpretitave quest for meaning,where meaning is the shroud of understanding that a given perceptual system provides.It is far from the White Flame though.The answers you find,have no questions.
Dreams can often reinforce these perceptual systems ,and considering the daily bombardment from the biological system to the brain- this is quite a 'healthy' process.But all motivations and Human drives can (for good or ill),be overcome by the use of the strengthening of 'will'.
This creates a drive towards the evolution of consciousness that transcends experience and allows abstract notions to filter through the gaps in your 'World View'.Unfortunately,I think there is a real danger that you might become a little too detatched,and end up seeming 'alien' to the people around you and to yourself.
So,the White Flame is about defining the limits of your own humanity, and by our actions, we define what that means for all of us.Just as I am defining what it means to me.
There is the consensus of agreed upon symbols,and the consensus that even without those symbols we can still exist, that your humanity remains.But this is wrongheaded,because the ability to detach is very human,and serves a purpose but is only a means to an end.

I had this dream about Hal9000 once,and he told me (dispassionately)
that in dreams,we are essentially being lied to all the time ,by ourselves (not always for our own good it sometimes seems).And I had a conversation with God about life in this dream,but when I looked up at him,all I saw was an infinite Brick Wall.
I realised that just by deluding myself into thinking that He might be listening,and by opening my heart to Him,I had overcome my own problems by myself,and found out what I had to do -because I believed that by dealing with these problems in a way that I thought God might approve of -had actually brought me back to the point where I started before my trials -balanced,cleansed,and ready for the next thing.
My point is that delusions are symbols that serve a purpose,but that there is a higher 'human' system that is being evoked.A motherlode,where awareness can be kickstarted and sensitivity to ones life and environment can help us to evolve our species.A detatchment from all material,thought and awareness followed by a reassessment of that awareness unencumbered by the prejudices of habitual learned response.You open your heart to yourself.
Its there,but I can't say what is is or if it exists,but the white flame isn't as important as what you do after.Even God isn't as important as what you do after.
 
 
Seth
04:53 / 22.11.02
kobol! Good to read you - been a long time.
 
 
vajramukti
19:08 / 27.11.02
this exercise is also partially derived from buddhist meditation on emptiness: ie; the experience of awarness without labels.

To say that something 'is' something is to bind it into a particular role, when in fact, it's functions are limited only by the imagination.
 
 
—| x |—
06:50 / 30.11.02
Hello, I’ve been dying—to write something for this thread, and I can’t stop myself anymore, can’t hold it back, can’t hold it in, so I’ll let go, blank as a fart in the wind.

What is the origin of the “White Flame Meditation?” Well, seems to me anyway, that it is simply the mere fact of existence; at least, existence when examined or reflected upon. Semantics? well yes of course. RAW? well that too. Buddhism? Yeah. Are you ready Jesus? Then let’s go!

What am I?

Who am I?

Good questions young wo/man, good questions…

If you are trying to describe all that you are to establish what it is you exist as, then you have already presupposed your existence in the act of describing. Not quite the cogito, but close, “I describe, therefore I am”; thus, there is the contradiction: if you are trying to describe what you are, what it is that you exist as, then you have already assumed you exist. If there is no “I am,” then there can be no description of what you are, and if there is a description of what you are, then what or who is it that does the describing?

A double infinite regress looms on the horizon, an eye or “I” of a hurricane cycling in the void.

Think for a moment: if we presuppose an “I” that can describe all of what “I am,” then is this a finite or infinite list? Intuition or imagination ought to lead you to infinite. As in the simple example of the chair, there is much that is left out of any finite list that might describe what “I am.” Did you remember to mention your relation to the grass in the park or you foot on the pavement? Or how about your relation to that little bit of dust that floated by your head as you sat daydreaming about mud pies in grade one? And did you even include those days in the mud, or crawling before walking? Can you even remember all the things that are part of the description that trace back to moments out of the womb or moments before, or back to when you were a part of your mother and father, and they, in turn were parts of their mothers and fathers, and off to…and before even that, pre-human? And it goes all the way back to star stuff, right? So, a description of “I am” appears to be infinite, and perhaps not merely infinite, but possibly an uncountable infinite, as in, even in the infinite list of what “I am” is (haha), there are elements that are left out, ignored, unrecoverable, and even if you could add them to your description, then there would still be more elements that are not present in the description. But of course, all this description of what or who “I am” presupposes that there is an “I” outside of this description, an “I” that precedes a description that not even Zeus could describe, and what or who is that, exactly?

Well, if it is the “I” that describes, then part of your description of what “I am” must include this “I that describes,” but here we have another difficulty similar to Russell’s paradox, but more in line with the idea of a set of all sets: if the “I” that describes the (uncountable) list of what “I am” must be included in the description of what “I am,” then there is a further “I” removed from that “I” who is describing the “I” that is describing the “I” that “I am.” Now, I (haha) am sure you (hehe) are well ahead of this now, and perhaps were at the start and have not even continued to read, but in case, then that further “I” that is describing the “I” who is describing the “I” that “I am,” must also be included in the description of what “I am,” and so, there is yet another “I” who must be presupposed to exist to describe that “I.” And now “I” hope “you” can see the double infinite regress that occurs as a result of trying to describe all that “you” are, and all that premised on a presupposition that there is an “I” that exists in the first place.

Thus, the “White Flame” meditation appears as not simply a defense against attacks on the identity, but perhaps appears as a defense against the notion of an identity at all—an akido move “you” use on “your” “self.” There cannot be an “I” to describe without a circle in presupposing the “I,” and once you step into that circle, it goes to infinity in both directions.

diZzying indeed.

Well, thanks for “your” time, if there can be any time in a self-contradictory existence, and “I” hope “I” haven’t ruined the “big surprise” of this meditation for anyone. If “the map is not the territory,” but all we have is the map, then maybe there is only the map, and perhaps, then, the map and the territory are the same damnable thing, which might be {nothing, everything} at all/none. But that way lies madness.
 
  
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