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>>Sex Cityzen <<- Is sexual intercourse detremental to the Magus?

 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
22:31 / 28.10.02
Originally posted in Q & A and I decided it was thread worthy...

Pythagoros was a shaman who lost his abilities due to sexual intercourse-Colin Wilson, The Occult

Never mind the condoms...

A reccuring question to me is what are the effects of sexual relationships on personal power? On the energy body? On the physical body?

Someone old me we had the choice between life and death - translated abstnence and action. He claimed that by choosing to have "liesure sex (aka Sex not for procreation) this burns away our personal energy and sends us to an early grave.(Please, its his opinion, Im exploring...don't jump on the "THAT'S BULLSHIT REX!" bandwagon)

It really hit home today when I read the above quote from Colin Wilson. (BTW- IF YOU HAVE NOT READ "THE OCCULT" BY COLIN WILSON, STOP READING THIS THREAD AND GO NOW TO OBTAIN A COPY...frickin fantastic.)
Could it be that the biggest detriment to our ability to be magi is our insatiable sex drives?

I abstained from sex for 2 years...like the sienfeld episode in reverse, I felt more intelligent, more connected to the source, and healthier.

But that was just me.

Thoughts?
 
 
mixmage
23:33 / 28.10.02
I know that Taoism contains some info on the subject, and the Casteneda thread gets onto it right about here.Both are of the same opinion - sex [with orgasm] causes the loss of that which promotes vigour and longevity... but mostly for men.

The Taoists believe that we have two types of chi [energy]; Prenatal chi is what you are born with, it's stored in the kidneys and cannot be replenished. The chi one develops in chi-kung resides in the lower belly and is replenished daily, this supplements prenatal chi and slows it's loss. A little bit like a battery in the kidneys and a capacitor in the belly. This is part of the reason for the longevity benefits reported by practitioners of the chi arts.

The Taoist practise of refraining from ejaculating is based on the conservation of irreplaceable energy. Coincidentally, they also practised the technique mentioned by May, drawing energy from the woman... I believe it was refered to euphemistically as respecting the Jade Emperor, but possibly not.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
23:56 / 28.10.02
Go figure.

I answered my own question in another thread!
 
 
mixmage
00:08 / 31.10.02
Fair enough, but that was still from a mainly Toltec perspective.

How about throwing it back to the floor?
Is it a factor to anybody else out there?
Do you employ techniques to minimise loss or replenish?
Do you feel any affect at all, or do you masturbate like caged monkeys?

... and what about the female orgasm? Does that expend irreplaceble energy?

thoughts?
 
 
illmatic
07:51 / 31.10.02
I know ypou said dont jump on the "that's bullshit" knee jerk bandwagon but "no non-procreative sex"!!! Isn't that just one of the worst messages of the worst forms of Xtianity all over again?

I think when the Daoist's talk about loosing energy through ejaculation they mean specifically the energy, not the ejaculate itself (semen)- so it would be possible to have plenty orgasms, as long as one was aware of it's effect on the body's energy and you were making an effort to reabsorb energy.

As far as I'm concerned, with regards to sex burning away our personal energy, our sexuality is a by product of us being alive, one of the things that causes our motivation and reaching out to the world - and any energy that we replace can surely be replensihed, just as our cells keep regenerating and hair and nails keep on growing. I see no reason why sexual energy should be the only part of us that is a finite commodity. The one thing that does bugger us up though, is our stupid attempts to interfere with natural processes.

This is not to say that judicious use of celibacy is not useful for time to time especially bearing in mind the attachments and obsessions we build up around sex. (BTW your period of abstinence - did you masturbate?)

Following on from what Mixmage says, I think this idea like a lot of writing on sexual magick, seems to be focused on men alone. I'd like to hear what the ladies have to say!
 
 
penitentvandal
11:18 / 31.10.02
I masturbate like a caged monkey at every given opportunity, but if I'm planning Big Magick I'll usually spend a while being pure and chaste to build up charge for achieving auto-erotic gnosis.

As to sex involving other humans, I haven't found it detrimental to my magick at all. I think that 'celibacy makes my magic stronger' bs was just invented by some fat Taoist to justify the fact that he wasn't gettin' any. Funny how it's always fellas who come up with those theories, and it's always the woman who's the Evil Sex Vampire who sucks out your big Chibomb boomsperm, isn't it?

Grab what you can, that's what I say. What would you rather have - eternal life as celibate Yoda, or a finite life with as much rutting as possible? I know what I'd rather have, and it doesn't involve being tiny and green...
 
 
Papess
13:19 / 31.10.02
Hahaha...Vandal, you rock

Sex magick, IMHO, is certainly a very potent form of magick. I would like to say here that I also believe being celibate is a form of sex magick as well. Celibacy is a control used to gather and contain sexual energy. That is not different from Tantric, yab-yum consortium, Doufocal sex magick or during the "friendly relations" of the Tao. I suppose the difference would be the transmutation of said energy. Since what is to be acheived in any kind of magick is the state of Gnosis whether one is praying for salvation or planning world domination, one could consider that the methods employed by both the celibate and active sex magician are in fact, very similar.

Like the celibate, the erotic-mage (hmm, let's make up a word...erotomage?) conserves energy through periods of abstinence to create an energetic or magickal foundation for work. Even when the erotomage methods deviate from the celibate, and performs sexual acts, they are of a controlled nature. Other than the flesh-to-flesh contact, the objective of both the celibate and active sex magician is the same. So, really I am suggesting that all magick is sexual in a manner. Just the method of execution is different. The celibate may choose to use prayer for the release of energy during gnosis and the sex magician uses the act of intercourse as a conduit.

However, I believe the question here is whether sex itself is detrimental to the magician. It would seem to depend, according to many systems, on whether you are a man or a woman, but also the method by which two (or more) have sex.

Women do have the capacity to be inexhaustible because of nature of the womb and menstral cycles. We boast a self-replenishing energy cycle with the corresponding storage space to "contain" energy. Not a bad deal if you ask me. Her essence is sought for balance of the yang and also to supplement it. A male mage with his own best interest in mind would be sure to bring his female counterpart to as many orgasms as possible to absorb the yin essence. I always have to laugh when a man is so quick to acheive his own pleasure as I have given him nothing and have taken so much from him. (A little vampiric, yes. So sue me.) Woman though, have the upperhand in sex magick and I wouldn't doubt it for a moment that this is the reason it has been hidden in taboo for so long.

Men are not so lucky. It is more important for them to control their ejaculations as it is the materialized form of the energy they are displacing. If they practice sex magick with some discipline then no, sex is not detrimental. If they go and blow their load willy-nilly, the ability to create a spring-board for magickal intent is diminished. Periods of celibacy may be necessary for a man, or if he is disciplined he can enjoy sex and manage to absorb his partner's essence and have orgasm all without ejaculation. Practice makes perfect boys!

There is a question of homosexual intercourse here as well. During lesbian experiences there is an abundance of feminine energy. The atmosphere is sticky with yin energy and neither partner looses energy and it would seem to be the case also in male homosexual relations. It is however frowned upon in Taoist practices because of the dualistic nature of tao. If however, energy in homo-erotic sex magick is not thought of dualistically and the mind is properly prepared, same sex-magick can be powerfully effective. Energy, after all, is just energy.

All in all, it is the "how" of sex that can make the differnce. How are you performing it? Are you focused and take care not to expend energy superfulously? Do you make your partner's pleasure a priority or are you so distracted by immediate gratification that you cannot control yourself?

There seems to be a difference in debilitating effects between a practicing sex magician and average joe getting his rocks off, anyway.
 
 
Sebastian
19:54 / 22.12.02
I found yesterday an interesting perspective on the subject by Kenneth Grant. I hope it adds to the discussion. Rex, I thought of you when I saw it, and remembered you asked.

It is a chapter excerpted from Cults of the Shadow by Kenneth Grant, at an interesting site May provided the link to,

Orgone Farming by Clever "E.T." Succubae

A word of explanation is, perhaps, necessary concerning the term Karezza as used in the present context. Retention of semen is a concept of central importance in certain Tantric practices, the idea being that the bindu (seed) then breeds astrally, not physically. In other words, an entity of some sort is brought to birth at astral levels of consciousness. This, and analogous techniques, have given rise to the impression -- quite erroneous -- that celibacy is a sine qua non of magical success; but such celibacy is of a purely local character and confined to the physical plane, or waking state, alone. Celibacy, as commonly understood, is therefore a meaningless parody or travesty of the true formula. Such is the initiated rationale of Tantric celibacy, and some such interpretation undoubtedly applies also to other forms of religious asceticism. The 'temptations' of the saints occurred on the astral plane precisely because the physical channels had been deliberately blocked. The state of drowsiness noted in the votaries of the Ku suggests that the ensuing shadow-play was evoked after a fashion similar to that obtained by a species of dream control.

Honestly, it doesn't make much sense to me, but it definitely rings something the observatioon that but such celibacy is of a purely local character and confined to the physical plane, or waking state, alone. Celibacy, as commonly understood, is therefore a meaningless parody or travesty of the true formula. Might he be refering to celibacy in the astral plane also?

I always wondered about Castaneda and his cohorts, because no matter for how long they didn't fuck in the daily world, I always thought -and also experienced to some extent- that after a couple of celibate months it would only take to close your eyes to find yourself in an astral orgy.

Comments on this anyone?
 
 
FatherDog
14:21 / 23.12.02
I'm inclined to believe it's down to a division of attention.

Think about the times you've been single and you've been wanting sex. Or had a few casual partners, or an SO. Remember how much of your attention sex consumes? Remember how much you were thinking about going out to the clubs, or doing things for your SO to keep the relationship alive, or managing your time with your casual partners?

Now think about some time where, for whatever reason (vow of celibacy, disinterest, etc) you /weren't/ looking for sex, or actively avoiding it. Amazing how much more time and attention you could devote to everything else, yes?

I think many of the celibacy concerns in magic were born not because sex itself is harmful to your 'energy', but simply because it allows you to release the preoccupation with it that consumes so much attention.
 
 
mixmage
16:17 / 23.12.02
Good call, Doggy-Daddio... but as Sebastian noted, after a couple of celibate months it would only take to close your eyes to find yourself in an astral orgy.

Sometimes it takes just a little bit of sexual release to get one's focus back to the task in hand. Unless you were building that pressure toward a magickal end, In which case - Hands Off until Time!

Perhaps I'm a weak mage, but I do find it difficult avoiding ogle-mode when building pressure.
 
 
Sebastian
01:06 / 24.12.02
But anyway, what happens when you fuck in the astral plane? If you read the whole chapter I linked to by KGrant, the magus supposeddly charges a sigil while fucking an entity that "wears" the sigil in some way, either as a pendant or any other ornament, if I get it right. But it is still not clear if the magus should attempt "karezza" in the astral plane also.

God... that would definitely hurt or drive you mad, think about torturing Hell, never cumming in the astral plane while one by one the gorgeous fiery spirits do it on you and with you. Maybe you become an orgone condensator and become able to fire fire beams from... well, your eyes, your fingers... you choose. What would happen eventually to your astral prostate?

Besides my comments, can anybody here familiar with Kenneth Grant clarify it? Or maybe it deserves a separate thread?
 
 
Papess
02:20 / 24.12.02
Just come on the astral plane dammit!




I am waiting
 
 
Son of the Soil (aka Joe Dirt)
04:18 / 24.12.02
(.Y.)
 
 
Papess
04:23 / 24.12.02
AWW FUCK!, already!??

Too much gnosis for ya baby?


No wonder you thought you should stay celibate.
 
 
mixmage
00:29 / 25.12.02
Seb... I'm reading it right now. A little intoxicated and irreverent, but it's Yule, and that still means something.

It has been suggested by some authorities that the original witches sprang from a race of Mongol origin of which the Lapps are the sole surviving remnants. This may or may not be so, but these 'mongols' were not human. They were degenerate survivals of a pre-human phase of our planet's history generally ... sounds like SubGenius Yetinsin. So I'll buy it. Although the Yeti part of me resents the word "Degenerate".

In ancient Egypt the mummy was the type of this formula... it's also a method of preserving DNA for cloning.

Don't make me invoke DizZY but, 0 = 2, where naught symbolizes the negative, unmanifest potential of creation, and the two the two polaritites involved in its realization. 1,2,3: unity, polarity, plurality. This does not mean to refute the bolded statement.

of course Salvidor Dali was a mage... D'oh!

In the language of my ancestors, sex magick was part of seith/seidr (from the root to seethe... like a pail of eels or snakes. from the head of heidraupnir, to the horn of hodrofnir)

Do you think there are no runes on Brisingamen?

harooom!... the gods of squid and whale were here long before us... we call them Aegir and Ran.

Let me put it this way. I can be the puritan, but it's mighty tricky when your patroness is Goddess of magick and sensuality.


enjoy your longest night!
 
  
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