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The Ring (Spoilers) - American Version.

 
 
Foust is SO authentic
04:39 / 20.10.02
Don't read this until you've seen the movie, hm?

Help me out a little here. The ending was a bit ambiguous. Maybe I just wasn't paying close enough attention; are the two of them planning on distributing the tape? The little boy says "what will happen to the people we show it to?" - wouldn't just copying the tape be enough?

Have any of you seen the Japanese version?
 
 
krakaboom
07:47 / 20.10.02
it seems to me that to complete the cycle, one has to make a copy and show it or pass that on to another. like a video chain letter. it needs to be kept in motion. pass it around. hence THE RING.

i have copies of the original and the sequels. this remake does deviate from them a bit. but it doesnt take too many liberties.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
12:05 / 20.10.02
And this is what happens in the sequels...?
 
 
The Natural Way
13:40 / 20.10.02
It's just RING, isn't it?

So...is the remake any good?
 
 
videodrome
15:07 / 20.10.02
Changing this thread title so as not to confuse with the older Ring thread. And Foust, add a topic abstract next time so's the thread will come up on topic searches, hm?

The American version is The Ring, for no good reason.

No, copying the tape and passing it around isn't really what happens in the sequels. Very good info on all the other films (all 96,356 of them) is here.
 
 
videodrome
15:05 / 21.10.02
Have seen it. Am composing thoughts. Early take is, not bad, not great. Not as simple or elegant as the original, but a few of the additions are pretty good. The script is weak (very weak, in some places) and that takes a lot away, mostly in the backstory area where many changes took place, few good.

But Naomi Watts is good and Brian Cox is awesome, as usual. More soon.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
16:29 / 21.10.02
Am I the only one who thinks the remake was scary as hell...?
 
 
doglikesparky
22:59 / 21.10.02
Not had a chance to see the American version yet but the first Japanese one scared the willy's out of me! That whole TV set scene was just crazy!
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
23:52 / 21.10.02
Am possibly going to the Oz premiere on Friday, so will letcher know what the reaction is down here: to be honest, I don't think the original is readily available here, either. But with the benefits of amazon.co.uk's DVD section...
 
 
videodrome
01:46 / 22.10.02
I've been slow writing this up, so here's a few thoughts. They're all fulla spoilers, so if you want to go into the remake a virgin, scroll away.



The big problem is the script, for a couple of different reasons. Glaring issue number one is the backstory, which is needlessly complicated. While I can see the studio having doubts about the original story translating to American audiences, what they've sent along as an alternative just doesn't cut it.

Instead of a simple little psychic story, we're given this pieced-together thing were a horsebreeder and her husband have a child, who ends up being locked in the barn attic, possibly because she's been giving the mother visions. In any case, the father (awesome Brian Cox) doesn't like her, so she's fucked from the get-go. When the confinement doesn't stop the visions, the mother pushes the daughter down a well and you know the rest.

Two good things come of this: there's a big sequence with a horse on a ferry that's well done, but it means fuck all in terms of the story as a whole. And when we see the room where the daughter was kept, it's got a little bit of resonance, which I'll get to in a minute.

But the story is presented in a disjointed series of confusing flashbacks that work too hard to logically explain an ultimately illogical premise. The suernatural aspects of the Japanese version are better - the whole thing's dodgy to begin with, so you just accept it and move on. But there's no way to do that in Verbinski's version, as the film pummels the audience with unneccesary exposition. The end result is a film that goes on too long instead of just getting to the point. The original is of perfect length, with nothing that could be trimmed. There's a lot of excess in The Ring.

Two other script things.

One: Dialogue.
A lot of it is bad, and in any case there's too fucking much of it. In at least four scenes things would have worked a lot better if everyone on screen would just shut the fuck up. Please. "It's over." "How long could she stay down there? I don't know. Blah fucking blah." We get it, alright? SHUT. UP.

Two: Rachel - the main character
She's a bitch. She's not a busy mom who's ultimately attentive. She's just a bitch, and a bad reporter, to boot. Scenes in which she interrogates Brian Cox and others make me wonder how she ever gets a story written. Naomi Watts is very good, which becomes more apparent when you realize she's swimming upstream against a script that works overtime to make her unsympathetic. As a side note, her kid is too Sixth Sense from the beginning. Maybe it's that I can buy an unnaturally responsible nine-year-old who's Japanese, but not an American. dunno. Either way, while the original Koichi was cool and a little unnerving, The Ring works too hard to make Aidan supernaturally knowledgable. Case in point: the scene where he's laid his mother's dress out for the funeral is played for a creepy effect, rather than to show what a good kid he is. Why? No reason.

And the big problem. The Meaning. Television is bad, m'kay? As if having Sadako crawl out of a tv isn't enough, we have Rachel literally attacked by a television, and the point hammered home that Samara (nee Sadako) was mentored by television. Look for all sorts of unneeded dialogue in that scene. The one good bit in the whole "television is evil" sceme is that when we do see the barn attic, it looks a whole lot like the set for a TV show. I thought that was a nice touch. But then they blow it by talking too much. But the whole moral thing is still half-baked, and corrupted by the delivery medium. Nice try. Leave it alone.

And why do the two records rooms we see in the film look like they're out of Session 9? I mean, it's a major newspaper and a hospital for chrissakes! They look like the map room on the fucking Titanic. Creepy production design is one thing, but that was stupid.

So, um, good stuff.

The effects are better, and fairly well-restrained. The scene with Samara crawling out of the TV is very good, and I think more effective than in the original. All the acting is good, even though the two main actors are facing a conspiracy of script, makeup and wardrobe to make them less effective. Namoi Watts really turns it on in the last third, making me believe that she's the youngest actress who's readily willing to Look Like Shit Whilst Crying onscreen. That's worth something. And Brian Cox. His last scene is a great one.

The overall feeling is right. The look is on, and Verbinski has copied shamelessly from the oringinal wherever the script lets him. Most of the time it works, and when you resign yourself to the idea that most Americans will never see the original, I suppose it's an appraoch you can argue in favor of. The people in the audience with us certainly bought it, as have most of the people I've talked to who had no idea it was even a remake. Whatever. I don't love the original as much as most people and I certainly don't love this one. But despite all it's problems, which are many and easy to point out, I still think there's a pretty good core in The Ring, and that's worth checking out.
 
 
Bear
08:18 / 22.10.02
videodrome did you come up with all that after just one watch of the movie?
 
 
rizla mission
09:58 / 22.10.02
Completely pointless knee-jerk anti-remake bitching:

("Samara"? What kind of a lame-ass name is that for a malicious evil psychic dead devil girl? Trust Hollywood to take a cool concept and give it a name like a crap car..)
 
 
The Natural Way
10:31 / 22.10.02
Oh, I quite like it aksherly.
 
 
Ray Fawkes
12:05 / 22.10.02
Hmm...while I can agree that the dialogue is weak (at times) and that the little boy's precociousness is unnecessary (and cliche), I think the rest of the film was nearly flawless. Videodrome, it sounds to me like you didn't want to like this version, or even to judge it on its own merits.

The backstory isn't needlessly complicated - it's nearly identical to the Japanese one. The little girl is psychic, right, and she sends out the bad juju. Her own parents alienate and then kill her, and she takes it out on the world. All they've done in the American version is add a few details that make it creepier - most especially, the barn room, and her effect on horses. They also tied in the little girl's past more concretely with the video, which was a clever touch - to have the pieces of the video manifesting either in the past (in her life) or in the present (the visions/experiences of the victims) made it resonate beautifully.

And the big problem. The Meaning. Television is bad, m'kay? As if having Sadako crawl out of a tv isn't enough, we have Rachel literally attacked by a television...

I don't know, I think this was handled with remarkable subtlety, considering how ham-handed the point seems when you just say it. And I'd take issue with your reading - I don't think it was just saying that television is bad, per se, but that we have a perverse need to witness and share information that might be better left alone. Television is just the medium explored - but the film takes shots at journalism, and Samara's vibes extend to photography and x-rays as well. As an exploration of the greedy "need-to-know", the film works very well - and serves as a meta-commentary on itself, considering the strange thrill of watching such a disturbing story unfold.
 
 
Ganesh
13:35 / 22.10.02
I won't allow it into my house because it's evil and encourages both liberalism and feminism.

*shakes head muzzily*

Sorry. Forgot where I was, for a moment there...
 
 
sleazenation
13:52 / 22.10.02
I think some of Ring's (as opposed to The Ring) appeal to the western viewer is the sense of otherness of its setting. Most westerners are used to seeing horror films that are both in english and have and english speaking setting - Ring, unsettles those norms, it also unsettles the norms of 'the foreign film' which is usually depicted as being arty with a hint of erotica.

what do people think ?
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
14:32 / 22.10.02
I won't allow it into my house because it's evil and encourages both liberalism and feminism.

*snickers*

I've seen a lot of people bash the remake, with many of videodrome's complaints. Maybe I was too caught up in the atmostphere to watch critically. I was scared from beginning to end, just like everybody else in the theatre.

I half intend to watch it again, to see if any of these complaints stand. I don't believe they will, though. If the backstory is complicated, it's because the movie needs you to feel sorry for Samera, and events have to be spun in her favour.

I've seen people complain that the remake gives away too much information, and I've heard other people say it doesn't explain enough. I personally thought the porridge was juuuust right.
 
 
videodrome
19:47 / 22.10.02
A few things. I think Sleaze is right re: the otherness. That worked in the original's favor - particulalry by letting the backstory be what it was. With the loss of the otherness, and all the need to Westernize the backstory implied in that loss, a lot of the mystery of the story goes as well.

While the backstory in The Ring may not be as complicated as I've made it out to be, the presentation of it is. The script is all over the place with flashbacks and dreams, with the final result being a mess. So when you get to the whole videotape thing, I think it's a lot harder to buy in this version, since so much time is given to unsuccessfully explain things away. The photnegative bit was a nice touch, but I'd rather have seen Samara's abilities manifested on the video monitor seen in the mental hospital tape.

Re: feeling sorry for Samara. Isn't throwing the kid, alive, down a well enough? I don't need all this Flowers In The Attic horseshit.
 
 
Seth
17:29 / 05.11.02
I caught this while in the States, and I have to say I was really impressed. I hate the entire idea of remaking Ring after refusing to distribute the original, so the film had to do a lot of work to overcome my predisposition to hate the fuck out of it. It was about the best we could expect from Hollywood, and seeing it on Halloween with a bunch of kids who've prolly never seen anything scarier than your average slasher flick was great fun. During the climactic scene the entire cinema started literally screaming when Samara (gahh)... well, you know.

Having said that, it's a deeply flawed movie, especially in comparison to the original. While some of the additions are great, there are a few big mistakes:

- Samara's origins aren't explored. The association with the sea was one of the most fucked up conceits of the original, the interplay of the image of television static with the random play of the waves one of its most haunting images. Sadako was born of some inexplicable and unholy union between her mother and the ocean, the sea being a universal symbol of the uncharted and alien depths of the unconscious. The "frolic in brine, goblins be thine" probably lost a bit in the translation, but without this Samara is reduced to a pre-pubescent Carrie, a girl venting her hatred at her messed up childhood.

- Samara speaks. Hearing that squeaky clean little American girl voice is enough to demystify anything.

- The lead-in to the climactic scene is nothing compared to the original. In the Japanese version, there was no explanation, just the annoucement of Day Eight with that sound effect, the sinking feeling that something very wrong is about to happen. Why are we still counting down the days to that inevitable week anniversary? Hasn't the curse been lifted... compared to the American version, which felt the need to place the reporter at her ex' apartment, requiring her son to explain that Samara is still active and vengeful. The Jap version scores points for subtlety and maintaining a device which has been used to build tension all the way through the film; the Yank version looses points for yet another example of the weird little kid (you're right on that score, videodrome) who seems to know just the right amount of information at just the right point. Why the need for such a blatant signpost?

- The cursed videotape is nothing compared to the original. Some of the core elements are in place, but now it has the feeling of an art students try-hard attempt (it reminded me of the black and white film clip from Ghost World), with a few truly dull Nine Inch Nails visuals. Maggots turning into squirming little people? Puh-lease!

- The directorial style is much flashier than the original. Lots of jump cuts, subliminal stuff and rapidfire montages. The original was so downplayed, it was practically a documentary in places, with absolutely no effects apart from in the cursed film, and the climactic scene. When Sadako does her Max Headroom bit, it's really effective because of the subtlety of the build-up.

So I'm, in a pissy mood, ripping apart a movie that I enjoyed. Guess I'm still bearing a grudge. America really doesn't need more fuel to the "our movies are better than those made by the rest of the world" fire. It makes me remember the reason that a friend gave for not wanting to see Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: "The last thing I want to see is a bunch of Chinks Matrixing about the place." To which the only response is to enquire when those crazy niggers are going to start taking on board a Gonzalez influence....
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
20:32 / 05.11.02
Not so much film related as story related, this lends an interesting dimension to the ring story (particularly the last paragraph). You may also find this interesting.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
21:15 / 05.11.02
Have avoided the rest of the thread yet - which is dumb, as I've seen the original - but I'm hoping to see this this weekend at a preview. I didn't make the premiere; presumably they flicked the "no riff-raff motherfuckers" light on. But am interested to see what they've done with it. Exp; the concerns you voice seem to be pretty much bang on what I'd think, though as I say, I've yet to see it. Hmm.

Naomi Watts is Australian, by way of the UK. She was born in the UK, and if I recall correctly, her dad's a sound engineer who used to have a gig mixing Pink Floyd on their live tours.

Working for women's mags is great.
 
 
Seth
22:22 / 05.11.02
Good God, this Ring concept is messed up, and only getting more so. Cheers for the links, Tez.
 
 
The Strobe
22:55 / 05.11.02
Tez - well done for providing the link. Ringworld's rather good, I'm sure it came up in the discussion of the everywhere-but-the-US-Ring, and it's worth linking to again.

I would love to see some translations of the novels. Rasen sounds pretty good... but Loop is just fucking genius-messed-up-shit from what the site tells me. And I'd love to know more.
 
 
Sensual Cobra
23:23 / 05.11.02
Why is the Sadako/Samara TV climax so frightening? I agree it's the most frightening image in both films, yet on the simplest level it's just someone crawling out of a TV. Anyone think there's a deeper, subconscious fear buried in there somewhere?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
09:28 / 06.11.02
People were traumatised by the Aphex Twin 'Come to Daddy' video and expected her to start screaming? Haven't seen the American remake yet and, based on the fact I just can't handle horrific films at the mo, will probably wait for the video.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
01:36 / 08.11.02
I was wondering about the same thing, Reality. I haven't come up with any sort of explanation. I've described the scene to a friend who first insisted he'll never see the movie; he thought I was an idiot for thinking that was scary.
 
 
rakehell
03:05 / 08.11.02
I haven't seen the remake, but for me it was the first time the horror in the film seemed real. The tape, the well, it was all one step removed from me - and I think the characters too - then when we/they think the horror is over, it crawls out of TV and into the living room.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
11:42 / 08.11.02
I first saw the original with Expressionless and cringed when lil' ol' Sadako pulled herself out of that well and began shambling towards the screen. I think a lot of it has to do with the playing of our accepted notions about the television set. Let's face it, the television is an invader into our homes (well, not mine as I don't have one), but whilst we have almost no control over the data which is transmitted to us, we do have ultimate control over whether or not we chose to receive that data.
for me, the horror of that scene was that it was so chillingly inexorable. Nothing he could do would have made the slightest difference. That that apparently harmless medium was being used to channel Sadako's evil, against which the ex-husband had no control, was, for me at least, fucking scary.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
14:04 / 09.11.02
Right. Just back in from seeing it. And I have to say that I did like it - although I did find a lot of flaws in it, most of which have been covered here by other people. But I did think that there were some fantastic shots in it that made it worthwhile. It's pretty classy, as far as hollywood stuff goes, though you can tell where the original has influenced it, though - particularly in the composition of things like the shots outside the apartment, etc. Verbinski does have that nasty habit of encouraging fear by timing cuts with REALLY FUCKING LOUD PERCUSSION BEATS, though, which I think is a cop-out.

Ray: I don't think the backstory is identical. The Japanese one, because psychic stuff was so much a part of it, was more subtle. This one took bits and pieces (the medical scans with horses on them, say) and used them whenever they fit in - but in doing so, the cohesion was kinda lost, I feel.

Some of the shots in the video were good - very public health video from the 50s - but it didn't have quite the impact I was hoping for, no.

I did like some of the investigative stuff - the drowning horses stuff was at once interesting, but also kinda lame. Especially with Cox's "Maybe they sense things before we do" thing, you know? But, as I say, it was interesting, the way they handled it, even if it didn't have the style and simplicity of the psychic demonstration/death idea in the original.

I do think Samara shouldn't have talked, though. That's a no-no.

Another thing I didn't mind: the score. Hans Zimmer seems, somehow, to be borrowing a lot from Arvo Pärt's "Fratres" in this one, but combined with the subtle percussion found in the Japanese version, it's pretty good. May have to hunt it out, I htink - while sparseness worked in the original, this one works for the remake.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
01:03 / 29.11.02
Has anyone dug around in the Official Site? There's some interesting stuff a-la the Donnie Darko site. As in clinical reports about psychosurgery and stuff. Odd.

And then there's this.
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
08:03 / 29.11.02
And then there's this.

And what a creative work of arse it is...
However, I did a little digging around, and it looks as though The Ring is rapidly becoming the new Blair Witch, with the usual quota of melodramatics’ all claiming they know a little something about the truth.

Interestingly, however, it seems the original series of novels were actually founded in some fact.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
04:19 / 05.04.05
Saw the sequel this weekend, and also see that no one is writing about it here.

It was one of the most boring "horror" films I have ever seen. It had none of the creepy dread of the first one, little of the interesting visuals, and dropped plot points so fast, I wonder if it was edited down by about 45 minutes or so.

Incredibly disappointing.
 
  
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