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Thoughts on "Secretary"

 
  

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Hydra vs Leviathan
23:38 / 08.09.06
ok... wtf? i'm a little drunk right now, so could be misreading slightly myself, but i think that i've been seriously misread...

i wasn't "hinting at" anything - hinting is not something i do. Ever, about anything. Any obliqueness that may be found in my posts here, or my communication in any form and anywhere, comes from me myself being not entirely sure of what i'm saying, and not from any desire to communicate and not communicate something at the same time (a desire that's totally alien to me, since most people here probably actually have no idea how often and so hard i struggle to get as close to total clarity as i can, or how upset it makes me when i don't reach it... in fact, that's the reason that i actually post on Barbelith less often than i start to write a post and then abandon it, and far, far less often than i abandon the thought of posting long before getting anywhere near clicking the reply button).

I honestly meant nothing more than i said (basically, that the relationship described in the thread in Conversation strongly reminded me of the relationship depicted in the film Secretary, and that reading it motivated me to search Film, TV & Theatre to see if there was a thread on that film anywhere in it). I didn't think i was hinting that, i thought i was plainly stating it. The "make of that what you will" at the end of the sentence was merely a disclaimer equivalent to "i am not making a moral judgement" (ok, so those 6 words should probably have been left off... i honestly forget that other people do hint, so i'm just not "programmed" to factor the existence of hinting into the equation, or to realise that someone else could interpret something i said as hinting... i don't even have any idea what, other than what was stated, people think i'm hinting on most of these occasions anyway...)

Fuck. I knew my period of acceptance on Barbelith would end (if it ever began). I don't know what else to say except that, if i offended anyone, i'm sorry...
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
23:41 / 08.09.06
i fucked the italic tags on that. but it doesn't really matter, cos it and all my posts in this thread should probably be deleted anyway...
 
 
Francine I
06:20 / 16.09.06
"Fuck. I knew my period of acceptance on Barbelith would end (if it ever began). I don't know what else to say except that, if i offended anyone, i'm sorry..."

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that's occurred. A member has taken issue with the way you've expressed yourself, yes, and posed their issue to you in an aggressive manner, yes. That's one individual addressing another, not an outright rejection. What I'd focus on at this point is exactly what qualities of the aforementioned thread caused you to correlate thusly. You're dealing with a reasonable person, here - just explain what you had in mind more clearly. I do mean more clearly than your earlier clarifying post, which I have to admit left me unsure as regards the exact correlation - if it's simply the SI behaviour, it seems a very, very broad stroke indeed.
 
 
Spaniel
08:34 / 16.09.06
I totally agree, Frances, but can we endeavour to keep this shit out of this thread? Enough has been said, if anyone wants to take it any further we have other more appropriate forums and a PM system.
 
 
Ticker
04:14 / 17.09.06
Natty Ra Jah the BDSM elements of the film and in general life can be very complex for someone unfamilar with them to wrap their heads around.

If you'd like to talk about your perceptions of BDSM power dynamics separate from the film (or using it as an example) I'd be very happy to have dialogue with you regarding your perceptions and questions in the BDSM thread.

I respect your reaction and do not seek to alter it as much as to provide you a space where we might look at the dynamics from different perspectives. I'd like to listen to your perceptions and feelings in greater detail.
 
 
*
20:58 / 17.09.06
PM'ed. Sorry for ignoring the thread for too long to respond to you in a timely fashion, Natty. I am a dolt.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
14:09 / 19.09.06
I'm going to request for all my posts on this thread to be deleted. Er, if i can work out how to do that.

I'm sorry for rotting a good discussion of a good film.
 
 
Elettaria
15:10 / 20.09.06
I do hope you don't, I really appreciated your views on this film. Once I've finished figuring out just why the scene where he orders her to stop self-harming seems utterly wrong and creepy to me (apart from feeling that it wouldn't work, based on the people I've known who cut), I'll post a response.
 
 
Spaniel
16:29 / 20.09.06
Natty, your posts aren't going to be deleted because that would make all the responses redundant and/or confusing. Also, you made some good points.
 
 
Ticker
14:36 / 21.09.06
Elettaria, I'm curious why the part you mention with him ordering her to stop self harming weirds you out? Can you tease out what about the dynamic causes your reaction?

In general I love this movie as it shows how the person perceived as the submissive really has equal power to choose what happens and is an equal partner in forming the interaction. I realize some folks would have been more comfortable if the gender roles didn't also track traditional power abuses of male-boss female-employee.
 
 
Peach Pie
14:23 / 28.09.06
i guess if you find the idea of her submission to him more disturbing than her self-mutilating, the whole film will be deeply perturbing. the dewey eyed conversations with him as much as anything else. stockholm syndrome? yes, i think so... i still find it strangely heartwarming somehow. does anyone else?
 
 
Disco is My Class War
16:18 / 28.09.06
I didn't find it 'secretly' heart-warming, I just found it heart-warming. I think. And (shamefully, because I like to think of myself as far too queer and demanding a spectator to get off on a mainstream depiction of BDSM) sexy.

But then, I think James Spader could do anything, to me or anyone else, and I'd still meltily want to do his bidding. This predates Secretary. Actually, I think it started with sex, lies and videotape, in which he also has the air of the slightly creepy.
 
 
Spaniel
19:19 / 28.09.06
Strangely heartwarming? Er, um.... surely heartwarming was exactly what the film makers were going for?
 
 
Peach Pie
08:50 / 01.10.06
I was fighting it.
 
  

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