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Bomb in Bali

 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:51 / 13.10.02
Lots of people dead in Bali. WTF?

This was last night, I think, our (UK) time- I first heard it on the 10 O'clock news on R4 as I was getting up for work, then it was in A COUPLE of the papers (the ones which went to press later), quoting a casualty figure of 3, and many injured. By the time the late editions came in, it was up to 150.

By the time I left work (about 8:30 am) it was 180, mostly Australian and a couple of Brits (because, let's face it, the BBC don't really care about anyone else) according to News 24.

Nobody's yet taken responsibility, afaik. Although according to N24, this had been expected. Or something along these lines, anyway. But nobody thought to warn anyone.

Ideas?

I mean, Indonesia. There's a WHOLE can of worms there. Al-Qaida are (obviously) suspect number one...

but how long before they decide it was someone acting in defence of East Timor and intensify their bastardry there?

The other thing that struck me was that my first thought was "oh, well, at least it wasn't in the thousands..." A year ago, 180 dead in a terrorist attack would have been pretty much unthinkable.

Fuck.
 
 
Rev. Wright
11:55 / 13.10.02
(A terrible thing has happened and this post does not mean to ignore or belittle this)

The initial use of Al-Qaida may well distract from idigenous reasons for such an attack. To refer to Earthscan's State of the World 2002, I draw upon acts of corporate terrorism that have motivated much 'terrorist' activity regionaly in Indonesia.

'...ExxonMobil and Freeport-McMoRan in Indonesia, they have subsidized or helped train and arm government security forces or have made equipment and facilities available. These units have been involved in severe human rights violations.'
'...the strong demand for commodities and the consumer products made from them that makes illegal resource exploitation so lucrative.'

'Several sites in Indonesia are the site of some of the most intense resource-triggered struggles.'
'Acech is home to Arun, Indonesia's largest oil field and the site of a huge liquified natural gas (LNG) plant. Operated by ExxonMobil and owned by the state company Pertamina, Arun genrates 30 percent of the country's oil and gas export income, or about $1.2 billion a year.'

'Construction in the late 1970's displaced several vilages and hundreds of families. gas leaks and chemical spills caused health and enviromental problems, devastating local communities depending on agriculture and fish farming.'

'The Aceh Freedom Movement known as GAM (Gerakan Aceh Merdeka) began in 1976...'
'Renewed violence has killed more than 5,000 people, mostly civillians.'

'GAM guerrillas have long targetted military installations and Javanese migrants, but ExxonMobil has now become a prime target ..'

'Military Commanders responded with a counterinsurgency operation that resulted in numerous executions and disappearences and that led thousands of Acehnese to flee their homes.'

'Several mass graves with more than 5,000 bodies have been discovered. ExxonMobil paid the military to provide security for its operations, and reports allege that the company provided equipment to dig the mass graves and allowed its facilities for torture and other activities.'

'US based Freeport-McMoRan Copper and Gold Inc. is operating teh Grasberg mine-the world's largest open-pit gold mine, which is roughly as large as the state of Vermont.'

'Land owned the indigenous peoples, the Amungme and Kamoro, including a mountain sacred to them, was taken over without their consent by a 1967 agreement between Freeport and the Suharto regime. Not only have many villages been displaced, but mine wastes have been dumped on downstream tribal lands. In 1998, for example, some 200,000 tons of ore were dumped into the Ajkwa river system. These mine "tailings" have turned 230 square kilometers of river delta into a lfeless wasteland.'

'Although the violence is less intense than in Aceh, the death toll since 1961 may be as high as 100,000'.


I could go on.

Tourism is another huge income for Indonesia and this attack may be a part of the ongoing resource conflict.
 
 
Rev. Wright
16:09 / 13.10.02
Here is an interesting tourism news post with regards 'terrorist' activity in Bali, focusing on Australian tourists, dated June 3rd 2002.

Safety and Security

The 11 September terrorist attacks in New York and Washington and the subsequent response by the international coalition have resulted in criticism and protest activity in Indonesia. While demonstrations are likely to continue in some of Indonesia's larger cities in the coming weeks, at this time the intensity of protests has diminished. It is no longer necessary for Australians to consider deferring normal business travel to Indonesia, although tourists should consider their destinations carefully.

Australians resident in Indonesia should remain vigilant, exercise sensible precautions and monitor carefully developments that might affect their safety. They are urged to avoid large public gatherings and areas where demonstrations might occur. Should public disturbances eventuate, Australians are advised to remain indoors.

A number of explosive devices have been detonated recently in Jakarta and elsewhere. Australians are advised to take seriously any bomb threats that may be made against them or premises they occupy.

In Makassar there have been recent demonstrations, a bomb blast at an American fast food outlet, the attempted placement of a small bomb in an Australian company office, and reports of bomb threats to other premises. Australians in the area should exercise increased caution as a result of these recent incidents.

Following attacks against United Nations personnel in Atambua (West Timor) in September 2000, the United Nations decided to temporarily relocate its personnel from West Timor. Australian citizens are advised to defer all travel to West Timor and those residing in West Timor are advised to relocate outside West Timor.

Violent incidents in Aceh continue. Australians should defer all travel to Aceh.

Political tensions in Irian Jaya have eased but the potential for unrest remains. There have been recent incidents in the Manokwori regency and tensions remain high in that region. The situation in the provinces of Maluku and North Maluku (in particular Ambon and northern Halmahera Island) continues to be serious. Australians should avoid travelling to Maluku and North Maluku provinces.


Is this the evidence of a bleed over from the resource conflict zones to an affiliation to a greater global 'terrorist' coalition against the multinational backing countries?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
00:24 / 14.10.02
The SMH has coverage here. There's a shitload of Australian casualties/missing persons - as of this morning, Howard confirmed 13 dead, 220 missing and 113 in hospital. Not much being said about possible links with corporate terrorism, but that's not surprising, really. Most interesting piece of the story is this comment:

Australia was paying the price for its high profile in the campaign against Iraq with the Bali bombing, a former diplomat said today.

South-East Asia specialist Bruce Haigh, who served as an Australian diplomat in several countries including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Indonesia, said the root cause of such terrorist attacks, however, was the US backing of Israel in its conflict with the Palestinians.

The prime minister was being badly advised on Australia's approach to the Iraq situation, Mr Haigh told the Nine Network.

He said Australia had been too vocal in its support of US threats to attack Iraq if it did not eradicate weapons of mass destruction.

"Our prime minister should adopt a much lower profile; he's been beating a big drum on this issue," Mr Haigh said.


Which places it back into the Iraq area, rather than looking at events on the ground and figuring out if they've got anything to do with this.

Eyewitness reports here.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
04:44 / 14.10.02
There are lots of angles -- so many it's scary. This puts Aust. right back on track to go to war on Iraq, I reckon. It also gives Indonesia a big excuse to crack down on GAM and the West Papuan independence struggle.

All the media has been focusing on how many footballers were there... *cringe* Which must help the general sense of nationalist paranoia a great deal.
 
 
gravity's rainbow
07:33 / 14.10.02
what's scary about this situation is how easily the media and - it seems - even you guys direct attention straight to Al-qaeda and Iraq. It's got to the stage on the world scene that it doesn't really matter who actually does these things, they're going to be used as part of the US campaign for world domination.
note that the FBI were immediately dispatched for Bali - what the fuck are the FBI doing in Bali???
we should all have stop watches timing how quickly it take Bush et al to point the finger at Al qaeda and Hussein. Then think about the fact that these two have never been definitely linked.
and of course, down here in New Zealand it was a big fucking story, headline news that the one guy who we thought might have been hurt has turned up safe and sound - well thank fucking god no Kiwis were hurt!
I'm off to search for an al qaeda thread . . .
 
 
tango88
09:01 / 14.10.02
The militants in indonesia are usually said to be 'linked to Al Qaeda' rather than actual Al Quaeda members.

Obviously, any group other than the militants would realise that this would be blamed on the militants straight away and I don't really see how any group would benefit from framing the militants in this way.

Bali is a non Muslim majority state and the bomb is sure to affect the Indonesian economy very very badly. This seems to me to fit in with the local Islamic militant agenda. (They want to bring down the governments in Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia and the Southern Philipines in order to set up a single Islamic Caliphate.)

On the other hand, Indonesian militants have been reasonably amateur in the past and have achieved nothing of this scale. Outside help?

I know I'm sorta finger pointing as Gravity's rainbow said but I'm willing to stay open to suggestions that the militants were not to blame. It's just that I can't think of any other exlanation now,
 
 
Mrhellcat
10:35 / 14.10.02
As an Australian and someone who's sister was in the street when the bomb went off, I've been following this pretty closely (my sis is OK and home now BTW). I'm interested in hearing how much coverage and what spin local media around the world is putting on these events.

Here there's basicly 24-7 coverage as you can imagine. Some media and politicians are likening this as Australia's 9-11.

Thankfully the media has stopped short of pointing the finger at Al Quaeda. But only just. Factually there's not enough known yet to do that, but the basic undercurrent I'm picking up is that the media lapdogs and John Howard (our mickey mouse prime minister) are looking for an excuse to prime the Australian people for war.

**Just for reference, Bali was/is considered a seperate world away from Indonesia by the Aussie public, often refered to (when taking the region into account) as it's "soft underbelly". To most (Australian tourists, I guess) it was a easily accesable (culturaly, politicaly and geographicaly), eutopian version of SE Asia.

Aside from the victims, my heart goes out to the native Balanese. Them, and their future are in a world of trouble right now. They are a beautiful and gentle race of people, and didn't deserve this in a million years.

Love, rockets and disobedience,
MrHellcat.
 
 
Rev. Wright
12:23 / 14.10.02
even you guys direct attention straight to Al-qaeda and Iraq

I do believe you should retract that statement in terms of my postings, Gravity's rainbows

I am soley interested in the current climate of propoganda that insinuates that this event iis linked to purely Islamic reasoning attatched to the Al-Qaeda network, than to the matter of ExxonMobil and Freeport.

The NWO needs a unified enemy to be able to push its agenda
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
13:29 / 14.10.02
tango88 said: The militants in indonesia are usually said to be 'linked to Al Qaeda' rather than actual Al Quaeda members. Obviously, any group other than the militants would realise that this would be blamed on the militants straight away and I don't really see how any group would benefit from framing the militants in this way.

But now the words "militant," "terrorist" and "al Qaeda" have become synonymous in the minds of many. The Brit gov't has "suspended" dual rule with Northern Ireland because of "allegations of espionage." Not proven facts, mind you, but you know, can't take any chances now! Every little challenge to the status quo that may have fuck-all to do with al Qaeda is nonetheless being cast as just another head of the hydra, from the IRA to Chechnya to Filipino Islamic separatists. It won't be long before Western society sees every damn deviation from its plan as a threat. You know what? It should, because soon the power of those elements will be enough to challenge that of the corporate crusaders, and shortly after that they'll figure out who their common enemy is. I would not want to be in an overly developed country such as this one when that day arrives.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
13:54 / 14.10.02
The Brit gov't has "suspended" dual rule with Northern Ireland because of "allegations of espionage." Not proven facts, mind you, but you know, can't take any chances now!

Actually... after the allegations about IRA spying, the UUP demanded that the two Sinn Fein members be kicked out, the British government refused, and the members of the Democratic Unionist party and their two ministers walked out of Stormont last Friday, which has led to the suspension of the assembly (for the fourth time since the start of negotiations). So not quite as insane as you make it sound...
 
 
agapanthus
18:56 / 14.10.02
Some recent theories as to the group(s) behind the Bali Bombing and their motivations include:
1. The Islamic fundamentalists. Top of the list is the JI, who puportedly have links with Al-Queada. The motivation here is anti- western. Apparently there was a heavy US marine presence in Bali recently, somewhat diminishing claims being made in the Australian media that the anti-Sadaam rhetoric of Australia's foreign and Prime minister inflamed the situation.
2. Sections of The Indonesian military. Somewhat sidelined by the election of Megawati, the military might have conspired to instigate a security crisis which demands their heavy handed presence. This theory has to account for what I heard was the strong economic control of tourism in Bali by Generals, but based on the involvement of the military in East Timor anything is possible.
3. A small cell of whackos??????
4. THe CIA - possible!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:47 / 14.10.02
The Express yesterday- big front page thing- "BIN LADEN MASSACRES BRITS".

Hmmm. Apart from being something of an assumption, of the 190 or whatever people, I think about 6 or 7 were Brits? I don't think the populist press here actually gives a fuck about anyone else.
 
 
gravity's rainbow
03:44 / 15.10.02
here in New Zealand the latest on Bali is that our government should be strengthening ties with the US, improving our military capability and cracking down on imigration - thank god no-one on our little islands will take any of that seriously (under the current labour regime) but I'm curious if this is what other parts of th world are now going through. For us, even through we are a Western, developed style country, we're basically too sm,all and distant to present any kind of target, but yet we've got people saying "no-one expected Bali". Well, shit, no-one expected New York and the Pentagon, but I didn;t go running for my bombshelter . . . sorry, this is a little provincial, what I mean to ask is: is the propaganda working all over the western world? are the western nations lining up behind Bush? Aussie obviously is (some here call Aussie Mini-America, McAmerica, etc), what about Canada? What's the feeling in the UK? Anyone from other westernised countries?
 
 
gravity's rainbow
03:44 / 15.10.02
oh, and I meant to say, all the way back, that SOME of you guys were pointing fingers at al-qaeda
 
 
gravity's rainbow
04:38 / 15.10.02
latest I just heard - a statement from al qaeda has just been released to a muslim TV station parising attacks in kuwait and other places, but not even mentioning Bali - bin Laden not even bothering to acknowledge the attack? what do we think this means??
(that is, if bin laden's even still alive)
 
 
tango88
08:05 / 15.10.02
Some points on agapanthus' theories:

1 The JI have links with Al-Quaeda. Specifically, many have undergone military training in Afghanistan. The JI are my most likely candidates. If I were a betting man...

2 Less likely than no. 1. However, the explosives were said to be of (indonesian) military origin. I do know that it is quite easy to obtain weapons in Indonesia through crooked cops, soldiers etc,

3 Wild card

4 The CIA would have gotten someone to do the dirty work for them. Rather than plant their own bomb, it is more feasible to me that they would have withheld/not acted on info that may have prevented the blast.


gravity's rainbow- I think the statement was released before the Bali blast. Again, I think the blast was from the JI as opposed to Al Quaeda
Locally, (I live in Malaysia), I think that Singaporeans are quite shaken up but in Malaysian coverage has not been over the top.


Our Prime Minister said that Indonesia suffered this because their laws are not strict enough. (Malaysia and Singapore have the ISA law which carry two years imprisonment without charge for suspected terrorists). Personally, I believe freedom requires sacrifice and the ISA and US Patriot act are as evil as terrorism, if we look at long term repercussions.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:39 / 15.10.02
From yesterday's papers there seemed to be quite a general sense of NOT backing Bush... saying his concentration on Iraq had allowed stuff like this to happen.
 
 
rakehell
01:42 / 16.10.02
A friend of mine was - and still is - in Bali when the bomb went off. Below is the first mail he sent to his friends after the event.

To everyone who may or may not have known that I have been in Kuta during the recent bombing I just want to respond and reassure you that I am OK. I was however going to a restaurant opening across the street from the Bombing and plans changed at the last minute- thankfully.

This has been a terrible tradgedy and many innocent people,including friends of my friends were killed.

FYI The bombs went off just outside the 2 most poular nightclubs in Kuta,Bali(sari club and Paddies),leveling and burning down more than a city
block. My friends and I were 10 minutes away at a bar when we heard there was a bombing in Kuta at SAri Club.

My friend, Jane and I grabbed a camera and went to the bomb site. We were among the first to gather footage of the bombing and it was horrible- buildings leveled,fires and bodies everywhere. We distributed the footage to CNN, BBC and REuters, so if you were watching these channels you probably saw a toned down version of what we shot along with interviews of those in the club at the time. At present about 200 people are dead, mostly Austrailians who have now been flown back to there own country. However there are still many Indonesians in the
hospital and there are over 250 people unaccounted for. It seems there is sufficient aid for everyone.It is reassuring to see how the Balinese people and foreigners have both showed their support volunteering at the hospital, cleaning up the site, donating money etc... If you have a means to offer support in any way please do so...

Some of you I haven't written in awhile but after seeing so much death in the last 72 hours, the value of friends,family and life becomes so apparent.

Of course the question everyone is asking is WHY? I know the mainstream media is targeting members of the Al Queda group or some other muslim millitant group. As a side note --after working with Reuters and CNN for the last 2 days...I have less confidence in the media to form a range in opinion than I ever have. Their function to inform and reveal seems to be lost by time slots, sensationalism and just copying what
has already be said.

I am interviewing many educated indonesian polititians ,members of parliment and the local people... no one believes what the international media says about the link to al queda. They are all very leary of this perspective in light of Mr. Bush's push for world support to attack Iraq.
Others say it would never be done by an Indonesian group as this has the potential to devastate the economy which is not in any Indonesians interest...

At present CNN and Reuters have their own media crews in and have put us on "call" if they need us. But my partner and I are gathering stories which are not being heard in the mainstream media and there (rumors -some people were told to leave the club before the bomb went off, and one witness who saw a man with a big back pack around the Sari club hours before. I will keep you updated.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
04:03 / 16.10.02
Indonesian police have arrested a former air force officer who confessed to building the bomb which killed more than 180 people on the island of Bali, a US report said.

Quoting Indonesian security sources, the Washington Post said the suspect regretted the huge loss of life in Saturday's attack but had yet to reveal who ordered him to build the bomb.


More here.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
00:07 / 17.10.02
Photos and eyewitness audio. (Flash)
 
 
tango88
14:16 / 17.10.02
Another big day today - bombs in the Philippines (Malaysia or Singapore next?), North Korea declares nukes and Ariel Sharon says "we have never had a better friend in the white house"

These is interestin' times
 
 
01
16:30 / 18.10.02
This whole thing makes no sense. An attack on a night club doesn't seem consistent with Al Queda because the target was not strategic in a millitary or economic sense. The WTC and Pentagon were both strategic and symbolic.

Why Bali and why target Aussi rugby players?
Is the Australian Prime Minister really that vocal about supporting the US's War On Terrorism?

It sounds more like tactics that organized crime would use against each other.

However there is another very disturbing idea that surfaces. If it is in fact Al Quaida sympathizers that are responsible, then the conflict is really escalating and can only get worse as more and more militant groups decide to throw down and enter the fray. Bin Laden may be holed up in some cave but how many of his followers around the world are that much more ready become active?

The biggest threat to the security of the "free world" is Bush himself as his actions are creating and/or inspiring more terrorists by the minute.
 
 
Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes
03:16 / 19.10.02
I've only just flicked through this thread, but would so much attention be payed to this story if it was not westerners who had been killed in this incident?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:16 / 19.10.02
Of course not. C'mon, it took the British media a few days to even make a big deal about the Australians (who comprised most of the casualties), having started with "Bin Laden massacres Brits" (The Express, I think). There was an article in the Guardian a couple of days ago by a Balinese guy, saying "don't forget US"... which was the first I'd seen.
 
 
Rev. Wright
08:48 / 19.10.02
There were no Westerners killed here

Two bombs exploded in crowded shopping centres in the southern Philippine city of Zamboanga yesterday killing six people and injuring 143.
 
 
bjacques
07:12 / 22.10.02
No Westeners (does that leave out Aussies and Kiwis then?), but there was a Christian shrine, so the message was pretty clear. There's been plenty of unrest in the Philippines, from the NPA (New People's Army) to Abu Sayyaf, the Muslim rebel group. That stuff has been going on for awhile. A link to al-Qaeda is possible, but not necessary.

Somebody told me that the nightclub in Bali made a good target because it was an Australian-owned, tourists-only joint. The bombers considered the Balinese working there and anyone hanging around to be acceptable collateral damage.

The CIA are famously unable to gather decent intelligence in non-Western countries. What they knew of al-Qaeda pre-9/11 came from disgruntled defectors (he'd found out what a fellow terrorists was earning). Yet they have the connections to carry off a bombing?
 
 
grant
14:28 / 22.10.02
Kuta Beach is hell on Earth, as far as I'm concerned - it's totally a colony town, no real relationship with the rest of the island except as a rival culture and eater-of-souls.
The waves are really good, but as soon as you're on land, you're in resort hell. Might as well be Mazatlan or Nassau. Bars with neon-colored drinks in test-tubes. White girls getting native women to put corn rows in their hair. People hawking jewelry on the sidewalk - following pedestrians around to do so.
It's the same in every resort town.
I can totally understand Kuta as a target.
 
 
the Fool
22:09 / 22.10.02
A theory I've been think through, feel free to pull it apart.

Say JI did plan a bombing, however didn't have cash or resource to do a big one. Two small bombs are planted that do superficial damage and injure a few people. The CIA get wind of their plans and hijack them for their own purposes. They plant (or get someone to plant for them) a big bomb out front of the Kuta Club. Notice how few americans were actually killed/injured in the bombing. I've heard rumours of americans being asked to leave the club just prior the bombing.

Why?

By aggrevating an already planned terrorist attack the US government has greater leverage over the Indonesian government, and makes a crack down on fundementalists certain. Makes Australia feel like a direct target in the war against terror, thus strengthening support for ideas such as attacking Iraq for instance. And also makes it less america vs terrorists than western nations versus terrorists.
 
  
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