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Some help for a neophyte using magick in a piece of fiction...

 
 
mwhite
09:29 / 13.10.02
Here's the deal: I'm writing a science fiction comic that is set to explore man's transcendence of flesh... to energy. Anyway, I started with a basic concept that was independent of any understanding of magick, transhumanism, etc. - as I had none. Then, as I began researching for the story I started to realize that the concepts I was exploring ran parallel to concepts/ideas explored in magick. This intrigued me. I began looking for ways to incorporate magick into my story. I saw it as an opportunity for me to give the story more depth. But, my understanding of magick is rudimentary at best. I'm not Aleister (sp?) Crowley. I'm not Grant Morrison. I'm not even freakin' David Copperfield. So, I need help - your help, if you're willing to give it.

Give me links. Give me names of books. Give me your opinions. Give me whatever you feel like giving me.

To give you an understanding of exactly what it is I'm writing, here's a transcript of a little chat I had with my editor & a female friend (both of which know even less about what I'm talking about than I do... Scary, huh?):


mwhite: The story is about the transcendence of man beyond his corporeal self... through his convergence with technology. You follow? The story & its characters are just vehicles for me to illustrate that process.

mwhite: Remember when I talked to you about memes? If you don't I'll give you a short little definition of them: A meme exists as a living idea-concurrently evolving and communicating with man.

mwhite: What we're doing is exploring the god meme-its evolution and origins, right? Right. Anyway, we're following it through different stages of development. It is. It was. It will be. It's the whole triune thing.

editor: Okay.

mwhite: The idea is that God exists because people think He does. You dig? Man is evolving and transcending his physical self--into energy. He's progressing to the point where he's beyond, time, space, &
matter. He's operating outside of all of that--in a collective but individual mind... alongside a host of memes. He's become the god meme. The creator. The beginning and the end. That's what we're working towards in the story.

editor: Okay. I'm following along.

mwhite: Okay.

mwhite: That's basically all I have.. just trying to see if you get the whole idea behind the story.

editor: Man achieving godhood through science and technology.

mwhite: word

editor: That's a theme, but what's the story? Or is that the story?

mwhite: That is the story.

mwhite: We're just illustrating it in an entertaining way. Or trying to...

friend: Excellent, so basically what you are going to do is try to keep the overall message not so obvious & and as you said, fun to read.

friend: And thanks for making me feel silly, Marcus, be damned if I knew what triune meant, I looked it up. Boy do I feel brilliant now.

mwhite: You got it though.

mwhite: I can get this stuff as if it was 2+2=4 but I couldn't be an accountant (she's studying to be an accountant) to save my life.

friend: Yep, and I like it. It's an absolutely frightening & yet attracting concept.

mwhite: Frightening?

friend: Yes. The idea of actually putting oneself on that level, on the level of God.

friend: Which, I believe impossible, but the idea of someone trying to and/or succeeding is just frightening.

mwhite: Well, the idea is that God made man to make Himself - to complete Himself - that He's one personage, one whole mind... but made up of collective parts... souls... And human life is then in effect the process of relearning one's self and then rejoining a collective mind... occupying a unique space, from which stems a multitude of nations, peoples, etc. - fragmented parts becoming a whole.

friend: There's something VERY threatening about that all though.

friend: And didn't God just make us in his image?

mwhite: Yes, in His image - that's the point of the story - to show why He did that.

friend: Ah okie, to show the "why" we were made in His image? Am I reading that right?

mwhite: Yeah, you are. I love this stuff. But, sometimes, I am a bit too caught up in all this philosophy... that most people won't notice in the story. That's why I need an editor.

editor: Yeah that was my next question/comment.

editor: Is this basically more allegorical than action or situation dependent?

mwhite: Actually, it'll be full of action - there'll be lots of shit being blown up; freaked out psychokinetic battles, tender moments... then more shit getting blown up... But, it's all working towards a definite conclusion - an end.

mwhite: I think the best stories are those have a bit of something for everyone. You can enjoy them on different levels. People should be able to enjoy this story in that way. There'll be action for people who are into that sort of thing. There will be a bit of romance. There'll be shitloads of underlying philosophical depth.

editor: Can you condense the story for me in a few sentences?

mwhite: Yeah. Sure. It's about a set of strangers that meet in a post-apocalyptic future and learn to trust & depend on each other. And in the process, they save the universe from itself.

editor: Save the universe from itself? Describe that.

mwhite: This like talking to a 6-year-old hopped on philosophical candy, isn't it?

editor: Ha!

mwhite: In the story I mentioned Monolith A & Monolith B, right? One is man-made--the other isn't. Monolith A is extraterrestrial in origin--so is man. It's from the future--from a society
that began the process of transcendence before man... kind of like the shared soul thing from Babylon 5. Two cultures--one people.

mwhite: Monolith A was found somewhere in South America in 1979. There's a weird story that goes along with the word 'monolith' and the year 1979. I was looking for an actual monolith from 1979 to use on goggle, and found an album by Kansas that was released in 79 and titled "Monolith." But, that's not the weird/funny part. The funny part is that all the song titles on that album are very much like the plot points of the story. Funny shit. The other funny bit... is that I freakin' hate Kansas. But, I've decided to make the comparisons even more eerie by plotting the story around the songs now.

mwhite: Anyway, Monolith A exists outside of time. It's a temporal anomaly. But all of reality exists because of it. People have made it into a city. They've been exploring it. They used it to
transcend beyond normal human limitations--to gain psychokinetic powers.

mwhite: Now they're hungry--they want to dominate the God meme. But it can't be dominated--they'd only destroy themselves and the universe. But, that’s a good thing. They just don't know it. They're trying to avoid destroying themselves.

mwhite: They see Hadi, Rabbit, Dane, & the cat that fell from the sky/the TELSERVER as a threat to their dominance of the God meme - you dig?

mwhite: So they/the transhumans go after them. Hadi & the rest save the universe by stopping those cats. But the universe still goes boom – creating a ‘new’ reality.

editor: Okay. THAT is more like it.

friend: Eek, this is like the Bible, kinda like the story of Christ.

mwhite: Yeah... it is. It's a kind of messianic parable.


Q: What happens when the universe ends?
Q: What happened before the universe began?

A: Nothing ever really begins or ends - it only changes states.


Q: Who... if anyone... made us?

A: We made ourselves. God is. God was. God will be. We are God. We will be God. We were God. The future is preordained - it already is. Man is a bridge to eternity - to the invisible node that connects everything. Okay, that just sounds like rubbish, but you know what I mean.

Q: Why is man here?

A: We're here to destroy the universe and remake it - to rejoin it. We are the universe trying to understand itself.
 
 
Rev. Jesse
12:50 / 13.10.02
Okay, so the question is, do you want to include magic to complete some goal, like a sigil, or do you want to include magic to explain life, the universe, and everything?

It would be a hell of a lot easier to included magic to complete some goal, especially if you include it as a sigil meme. Which I understand is what Grant did when he asked his readers to wank off over the Invisibles. What you would want to do is break down the desired goal into it's symbolic forms, which usually means taking out all the repeating letters and forming a symbol from those letters that remain so that you have a glyph you can charge, symbolizing but not depicting your goal.

For a longer piece of work, you would have the luxury to break down the symbols further and make those symbols interact in a more abstract manner, which will boost the power of the sigil. For example, if you want to affect some brash, energetic man, you might include the planets Mars and the Sun in your work, or perhaps the colors gold and red. Writing what happens to those planets and/or colors would affect that man.

That's how I would work a doing magic into a work of fiction, but that's probably not what you are looking for, do you instead want to use magic to explain the universe? To use magical theory to witness rather than do?

If so, I would recommend reconsidering your terms. In my book, explaining is more the goal of mysticism rather than magic, and as such, I would recommend looking at works of mythology rather than magic to explain the universe. Good books on this include the works of Joseph Campbell, Edith Hamilton, Neil Gaiman, and the Bible. Others are fairly easy to find.

If you are looking for strictly magical explanations for the universe and why god is, etc, you may have come to the wrong place. Many of the people that post here are Chaos Magicians which means they often refute, change, and destroy their own cosmic worldviews. Not many people here hold to one particular cosmic explanation.

If you are sold on explanation via magic for your book, here are a few books that do use magic to explain the cosmos (or perhaps use their explanations to do magic): Maya Deren's the Divine Horseman (excellent anthropological work about Voodoo), Aliester Crowley's Book of Law, the Bible, Reagardie's Garden of Pomegranates (about Jewish mysticism), the Tao Te Ching, Timothy Leary's Game of Life, and perhaps the works of Lovecraft. These give some idea of what the magicians of those cultures think of the universe, and of course Lovecraft provides an idea of how a potential powerful magic mythology can be forged from nothingness.

Hope this helps!

-Jesse
 
 
mwhite
19:57 / 13.10.02
Thanks for replying. That helped a lot - it gave some things to think about.

I'm not sure I want to explain anything to my reader. It's more that I want them to explore possibilities with me - to explore possible truths. I'm using my writing as a way to ask myself questions I wouldn't normally ask - to explore my own beliefs & thoughts through my characters. It's all a bit of trial and error. The search is all-important. The 'end' of that search doesn't really matter - the search is everything. I think that's what we're here for: to look, to learn, etc. The 'end' will be colored by perception.


The underlying 'philosophy' behind my plot/the story is a series of desperate ideas, concepts, beliefs, etc. cobbled together in what I believe to be an at least semi-plausible form. A lot of it is based on my own worldview, but the bulk of it is centered on singularitarian philosophy, which is basically an offshoot of transhumanism & posthumanism.


I don't want to preach a worldview to them. I don't want to tell them what to think. I just want the elements presented to appear plausible - to have some underpinning in 'reality.' So, I suppose I'm in the right place. Chaos magick is what I'm looking for.


If I was trying to explain or offer a worldview for mass consumption, it would likely be a Judeo-Christian worldview - I'm a Christian. I'm much more comfortable with that in terms of my knowledge of its 'mythos.' I was at one time going to be a minister - I still might be if I can get over my disgust with organized religion. But, I digress. I'm straying from the point of my post.


After thinking about it for a bit - it seems as though the best thing for me to do is one of the options you mentioned... to break down my goal into its symbolic forms. But, I'm not sure I'm comfortable using magick actively - to achieve something other than people asking themselves questions. I want it to unfold in a passive way... if that makes any sense. My question is this: How exactly do I do that?


Do I just write characters that are symbolic of some greater figures? Is there a set of archetypal figures in magick that I could represent as characters in my story acting out their goals/missions?

Example: At the moment, I have a female character named Inez (Inez means holy) that represents Gnostic Sophia. She's a transhuman with psychokinetic powers.
 
 
mwhite
20:00 / 13.10.02
That should have read 'disparate ideas.'
 
 
primaeval soup
10:16 / 14.10.02
Mwhite? Gnostic Christian?

[choke, splutter]

Mack White? Of Villa of the Mysteries fame?

I love your stuff so much!!

Ah, Jesus… Stigmata Surprise

Look:
Anyone who enjoyed The Invisibles, Flex Mentallo, “New Toys”, should check this man’s work out. Seriously.
Jack Chick meets EC meets alchemical prints meets porn comics meets Western comics meets Gnosticism meets conspiracy theory – except that makes it sound derivative and silly, when in fact the whole thing is NEW!NEW!NEW! and makes perfect, beautiful sense!

Sorry, I know, this isn’t helping you, Mr. White. But I’m very much looking forward to this new work – is it going to be a continuing series/ long-term project?

And for what it’s worth – I haven’t had a great deal of experience with Magick, but I suspect you’ve been brushing up against it in your comics for a while now.
 
 
primaeval soup
10:17 / 14.10.02
Have you looked into how the icons of the Eastern church are created and “function”?
 
 
mwhite
16:10 / 14.10.02
Gnostic Christian? No. Actually, it gets worse - or better, depending on your perspective. I'm a Baptist from Texas. Yeehaw even. Even if your post wasn't helpful - it was at least funny. Sarcasm is a good thing.

I realize I seem to be regurgitating what passes for pop culture a bit, but that's kind of the point - it's a conscious effort. Well, actually a lot of it is somewhat obscure to the mainstream. I dunno - I just think dystopic futures are fun to write. It's all based on a very childlike & selfish notion: I want to write something that's fun for me - something that makes me give out an audible 'cool' as I type it to the beat of old Esthero songs and U.N.K.L.E. I'm pulling a lot of stuff from people and things I count among my influences (and yes, that does include Grant Morrison). But, I'm not just eating in the same place I shit, if you get my meaning.

I want to write characters that people will immediately feel like they know - that they'll feel comfortable with - that they'll relate to.

Example: One of the characters in the story is a kind of bastardization of Bunny Boy from Harmony Korine's (the writer of "KIDS")"Gummo," and Lennie from Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men." He's a mentally malnourished man-child in bunny ears with a heart of gold - and a grip that'll rip your arm out its socket.

Still, the egoist in me thinks people will enjoy it. If I don't completely fuck up the writing of it, a lot of people will look at it in a lot of different ways. And that's fine with me.

Also, I do sort of include Eastern religion - assuming you consider Islam an Eastern religion. It stems from the same proverbial fount as Christianity and Judaism, but it's decidedly not Western in my opinion.

Hadi (1): Allahumma inni astakhiruka bi'ilmika wa astaqdiruka biqudratika wa as' aluka min fadlikal 'azhim.

Hadi (2): Fa innaka taqdiru wala aqdiru, wa ta 'lamu wala a'lamu wa anta 'allamul ghuyub.

Hadi (3):Allahumma inkunta ta'lamu anna hathal amra khayirn li fi dini wa ma 'ashi wa 'aqibati amri faqdirhu li wa yassirhu li thumma barik li fih.

Hadi (4):Wain kunta ta 'lamu anna hathal amra sharrulli fi dini wa ma 'ashi wa 'aqibati amri f'Asrifhu 'anni w'Asrifni 'anhu, waqdir liyal- khaira haithu kana thumma ardini bih.

Those are the first words spoken in the comic. It's Arabic, if you're wondering - or have to wonder. It's a prayer that's traditionally said before journeys.

Translation:

O Allah, I seek good from Thee out of Thy knowledge and seek power from Thee out of Thy power and I beg of Thee out of Thy boundless Grace, for Thou hast power and I have no power, and Thou hast knowledge and I have no knowledge, and Thy knowledge encompasses the unseen.

O Allah! If it be within Thy knowledge that this task is for my good, both materially and spiritually, and in respect of my ultimate end, then make it possible for me and bless me therein, but if it be within Thy knowledge that it is harmful for me in my spiritual and material life and in respect of my ultimate end, then turn me away therefrom, and enable me to attain good wherever it may be and cause me to be blessed therewith. (Bukhari, Kitabud Da'waat Babud-Dua indal Istakhara; Also Tirmidhi, Sharah Alsanat Vol. 4 page 153).


But, I'm guessing you meant something more along the line of Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc. In which case... no, I hadn't really thought of that. But, if you think about it - the concept of transcendence is a bit reminiscent of the concept of Buddhist’s concept of Nirvana.

But, there are some twisted visuals. Oh, and about using symbolism... that's something I've really been having fun with since the beginning of the story. Just because you guys have been so helpful, here's a segment of the first part of the script I wrote a few months back (with the dialogue omitted):

[Note: These pages don't appear until late in the first issue/ first 32-pages of the graphic novel]


Pages 12-15

SCENE: INT. MONOLITH B - FLASHBACK CONT.

A swarm of subs clad in white form-fitting spacesuits floats down a long corridor that leads to the TELSERVER's chamber. Their faces are distant and expressionless. The subs are passing through Hadi & Rabbit (Rabbit & Hadi are walking - not floating.). We can see a few dead subs floating idly behind them.

NOTE: In his own way, sub_07 is telling them who - and what he is. The subs are also being guided by the TELSERVER (of course), but, the reader doesn't know that - not yet. The only thoughts in their/the subs' minds are to get where the TELSERVER is. Nothing else matters to them - nothing. Their safety doesn't matter. They just know they have to get to the door. Nothing can stand in their way.

The ship is trying to stop them. It's throwing whatever defense it has to offer at them; lasers, guns, gas, etc. - we'll brainstorm later. They're running a gauntlet of death - and their numbers are dwindling with each new obstacle, but there are too many of them. The ship won't stop them - it can't.

Page 16

SCENE: INT. MONOLITH B - FLASHBACK CONT.

The subs rush thru a circular door that has opened along its diameter (it's the door to the TELSERVER's chamber). They're like crabs fighting to get out of a tank at a fish market. They're trampling each other to get through. In the background, we can see Hadi & Rabbit watching the scene in a mix of horror & wonder.

Pages 17-18

SCENE: INT. MONOLITH B - THE TELSERVER's CHAMBER - FLASHBACK CONT.

One by one, each sub rams itself violently into the forcefield surrounding the TELSERVER's POD - as the others wait their turns. Hadi and Rabbit are looking on wide mouthed.

NOTE: They're moving more orderly because the TELSERVER's influence is more direct on them.

Their bodies explode almost immediately on contact with the forcefield, sending their insides flying like projectiles, but with each new blow, the forcefield weakens. Hadi looks like he's going to be sick. Rabbit is watching the goings on intently.


Pages 19-20

SCENE: THE TELSERVER's CHAMBER - FLASHBACK CONT.

They continue their orchestrated barrage on the forcefield until it gives out - and only one sub is left - sub_07. We watch, as it wildly hammers its balled up fists into the protective container until it shatters - sending the red fluid & the TELSERVER flooding out suddenly.



I'm sure I don't have to explain what all that was supposed symbolize.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

--Marc [No, not Mack. However (in the interest of goofiness), if you're looking for a joke in my name, it's in my last name - not my first. I'm black. Also, my initials are MAW.]

BTW, Jack Chick needs an acid enema.
 
 
cusm
19:05 / 14.10.02
First off, read any Author C. Clark? You might want to, he's explored many of the ideas you've mentioned on transcendence already, and might be good inspiration for you.

As to the whole magick thing, it sounds to me that you want to include as themes some of the fundamentals of magickal reality more than systems or applications of it. As a few for starters, there is the idea that reality is malliable rather than static, and that sufficient force or use of Will can cause change to reality. That's one of the major underpinnings to magick to explore. Another is the act of naming, and making symbols of memes as a means for the will to grasp reality to make the change. That's wher foci and sigels come in. As an example, what if the completed monolith was a sigel for the meme of God? There is the idea that if one knew the True Name of God one could transcend, as one would know God in a way that one both would be God and be able to manipulate God at once. And of course, if God came into being as man trying to understand God as the force that created man, you get a nice maddening recursion to stare at as well.

Have fun
 
 
primaeval soup
19:36 / 14.10.02
Yeesh! Talk about embarrassed!

Mistook you for someone else, Marc. God’s honest truth. Was no sarcasm intended. But you’ve got to admit: two “M. Whites” in Texas writing comics that involve the Gnostic Sophia – that’s gotta be one of them damned “synchronicity” things, ain’t it?

And ‘twas the icons of Eastern Orthodox Christianity I had in mind in that second post, BTW. I read a newspaper article about ‘em recently, and there was a monk being quoted that the difference between looking at – say – a Constable, and an icon of St. Peter, is that the icon is looking back. Or something.The paintings seems to be deliberately used in a particular kind of prayer or meditation or ritual by the monks.
 
  
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