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What not to wear.

that

15:46 / 11.10.02

On plums' suggestion, I'm starting this thread on the BBC's new TV fashion police venture, which seems to verge on body fascism a fair amount. Basically, if you haven't been watching it, these two presenters, Trini something and someone-or-other, chuck out most of their (willing) victims' wardrobes, and guilt-trip/berate them into spending pots of cash on clothes they don't necessarily like, but which (allegedly) look good on them. They also say tits a lot, apparently in an effort to sound cool and risque. This programme frightens me quite a bit.

Ganesh

18:49 / 11.10.02

Trinny and Susannah. Actually, it's not that much 'body fascism' at all, as they not only feature individuals of all shapes and sizes, but make a point of groping (rather than merely commenting upon) their tits at every opportunity. They seem to genuinely enjoy what they do - their zealotry can be pretty frightening - and I reckon the verging-upon-bullying 'firm to be fair' stance they take actually works. And let's not forget the alleged 'victim' gets to spend £2000 BBC cash in the process; I'd absorb any number of critical comments to be allowed on that sort of spending spree...

that

19:04 / 11.10.02

Is it BBC cash? I had no idea...I've only caught the middle bits.

Actually, it is body fascism in the sense that 'no, you can't wear short sleeves, your arms are too fat', implies that fat arms necessarily look bad. Which they don't, IMnot-soHO. Sure, their brow-beating works, people change their style, but is that a good thing? Presumably these people volunteered for the programme before they could possibly fully understand its true nature, and I'm not so sure that being literally guilt-tripped or brow-beaten into changing their appearances completely in ways with which they are not always happy can be seen to be empowering. And yeah, Trinny and Susannah's zealotry is fucking terrifying. And the groping is not a good thing either, frankly. They're in a position of power...and they're abusing it in all sorts of ways.

Ganesh

19:30 / 11.10.02

Um, yeah, but the 'victim' has freely consented to appear - presumably in return for £2000 worth of clothes (good deal, I'd say). Eliminating body fascism as defined by yourself, Cholister, would also eliminate all aspects of fashion advice/styling, and would make for a rather dull programme ("Here's £2000, Lardarse, wear whatever"). As for whether the 'change of style' is a "good thing", isn't that up to the individuals concerned? I don't think I've seen one where they haven't generally been positive about the changes, and I've no reason to doubt their judgment...

Goodness Gracious Meme

21:54 / 11.10.02

yeah, i alwasy find myself incredbily annoyed by all the changes the make at the start.... and then see this newly-confident person emerge at the end of the process....confusing...

The Strobe

23:18 / 11.10.02

Hmn. I've seen a worrying number of episodes. I see your point, Chol, but I really don't think that's what they mean; what they mean is "short sleeves look crap on you; face it, you have big arms. If you wear non-short sleeves, you will look better". I think they're relatively good on actually showing people what they're real assets are rather than making them dress like everybody else.

And hell, they got Clarkson out of denim; surely worthy of an award? I feel it's not guilt tripping, as attempting to state the obvious - yes, IRL, people are going to probably reach a halfway house between the "new them" and what they always wore, but even that's better than some of their early attempts.

Kit-Cat Club

09:16 / 12.10.02

Actually, it is body fascism in the sense that 'no, you can't wear short sleeves, your arms are too fat', implies that fat arms necessarily look bad.

Yes, I agree with this, I think... these programmes do reify received notions of good dressing (hiding your 'bad bits' making the most of your 'good bits') and bad, and in doing so reinforce received notions of what is good body shape and, conversely, what we should be ashamed about regarding our body shapes...

Though, obviously, the people who participate are happy to compare and ally themselves with those received ideas.

Received by whom? Er, not sure... the media?

Having said which, I am just as self-conscious about this sort of thing as the next person; and just as prone to making unjustifiably snotty comments as the next person to them. So I can hardly talk.

rizla mission

16:43 / 13.10.02

I saw a bit of this program the other day and found it pretty fucking annoying. I don't like the idea of clothes that 'shouldn't be worn'. (except maybe speedos and a top hat during a snowstorm or something like that..).

There seemed to be a definite emphasis on persuading people to wear clothes that wouldn't get them noticed, whereas if they were any good, they'd clearly spend their time turning people into flamboyant freaks, which of course would also make much better TV..

Tryphena Absent

16:38 / 16.10.02

A couple of weeks ago they dressed this woman who wore the sweetest clothes and carried a Shawn the Sheep bag. Her clothes didn't look polished or wonderful but she just came across as such a nice person in them.
It broke my heart to see her dressed like everyone else in the world at the end.

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