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Passing a stopped school bus, or how Trijhaos screwed up royally.

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14:21 / 04.10.02

So I got my first ticket today. I was on a four lane highway, a bus had stopped, and I passed right by it. "Oops, didn't mean to do that. No harm done". Right? Oh, how wrong I was. I drive down the road a mile, and oh look, it's a TN State Trooper. Joy! I pull over. "I need to see your license, I'm going to issue you a ticket". Shit! I give it to him, and he gives me a ticket for $213. This is one of those times I wish I had a job. See, I'm going to have to explain this to my parents. I don't relish that. Not one bit. "So, how was your day, Trijhaos?", "Oh wonderful! I passed by a stopped school bus, got pulled over by a state trooper, and got a ticket". You can't exactly put a good spin on that, you know?

Now it says I can go to court or I can just plead guilty and send in a cashier's check or something. Is there really any sense in my going to court? I mean, I'm guilty. I know I'm guilty. I can't exactly say, "Oh! Nobody was hurt! No harm done. I'm innocent" I screwed up. I'm not going to get saddled with traffic school or anything, am I? I just pay this ticket(somehow), and make damned sure I never do it again. I learned my lesson.

I really don't relish explaining this to my father, but it's not something I can hide. I have no job, so I can't exactly just pay it and go on my merry way. I'm not going to lie about it; that'd piss him off if he ever found out I got a ticket and never said anything. Anyway, doesn't insurance go up because of traffic violations? He'll wonder about that.

I'll just be up front about it. I got a ticket, I know I screwed up, I won't do it again. That impresses parents, right?

The Apple-Picker

14:30 / 04.10.02

No, you won't get saddled with traffic school. Yes, you should be up front about it. Yes indeed, insurance premiums do go up.

Don't worry--they almost certainly can't get as high as my dad's had been for the years he carried my younger sister, my younger brother, and me. I think I can blame my sister for most of that, though.

14:30 / 04.10.02

So ... you're not allowed to pass it at all? You have to stop and wait till 30 children climb on board? Crikey.

Well, sympathies anyway - it doesn't sound like you were driving madly and in fact the rule sounds a bit mad. Not that that helps, I'm sure.

The Apple-Picker

14:31 / 04.10.02

So ... you're not allowed to pass it at all? You have to stop and wait till 30 children climb on board? Crikey.

Yes, you have to wait until the bus continues to move again. This is because children could be crossing in front of the bus that you cannot see, and, well, el-smacko. I think it is a very sensible law.

14:36 / 04.10.02

Well, I suppose. Or you could teach children to cross roads carefully.

Is it the same for ice cream vans, if you have such a thing? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, it just took me by surprise.

I'm pretty sure this isn't the law here, but then we don't tend to have school buses as such, just normal buses full of school children.

The Apple-Picker

14:36 / 04.10.02

Here's the low-down on the law.

The Apple-Picker

14:40 / 04.10.02

Well, I suppose. Or you could teach children to cross roads carefully.

Uh, alright. Children generally are taught to cross streets carefully--both by parents and school. Streets are dangerous; cars are lethal weapons; I think erring on the side of caution here is definitely the right and wise thing.

14:42 / 04.10.02

Well its almost statistical inevitablity that you will get a fine within the first year or two of driving (how long have you been a driver btw?). Mine was for driving a vechicle not in a fit state or somesuch aka driving without realising I had a flat tyre. Had gone down in the night and I didn't realise, yup I was a muppet but on the other hand had no trouble since then.
Paid the fine and I should really get round to getting a new license because I should have got the points on my license back by now. Parents wouldn't have even found out about it if I hadn't left my license lying round the house, ho hum.

Does sound like a slighty weird rule, but then as a driver I would say that. With school buses and the like here they have huge signs on the back saying 'Mind that child' and I try and avoid driving past schools at kicking out time.

Oh and for the parents thing, tell them but don't expect any sympathy at all. You're probably going to get shouted at, told you're an idiot and then made to feel like shit for a month or two. But if you can't pay the fine yourself there's not much way around it. Mark it up to experience mate, all you can do.

14:43 / 04.10.02

Oh, I know, I'm sorry -- I'm coming over snottier than I mean to.

It's just different to what we do here, and seems a bit strong, but I can perfectly-well see the reasons for it. I was initially trying to make Trijhaos feel better.

Anyway, I'll shut up now before I come across as some child-murderer.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

14:43 / 04.10.02

This is an extremely dumb fucking law, that makes no sense whatever, and I don't even like car drivers that much.

Tryphena Absent

14:45 / 04.10.02

It's not necessarily a bad law but the fine seems a bit high. It is the kind of thing that you could do quite accidentally- just pass by and suddenly realise it was a school bus. I guess that's why the law doesn't exist over here because we have less pretty school buses.

14:48 / 04.10.02

I can understand the part about cows or horses but school buses? Thats just plain crazy.

Matthew Fluxington

14:48 / 04.10.02

If you've ever been in the US, you'd know there is pretty much no way you'd mistake a school bus for anything else. They are big and a specific color of yellow, and you can't miss them. They had the words "SCHOOL BUS" written on them in lights, for fuck's sake.

It's not a dumb law, and the fine is reasonable, I say.

Tryphena Absent

14:49 / 04.10.02

Nope it's $213 that seems crazy- I hope it was that much because if I got that wrong I can be written off as an amnesiac.

The Apple-Picker

14:53 / 04.10.02

I don't really know what's going on here. Trijhaos even admits to the error being his: I'll just be up front about it. I got a ticket, I know I screwed up, I won't do it again.

He's not complaining about the law.

It is the kind of thing that you could do quite accidentally- just pass by and suddenly realise it was a school bus. Breaking a law by accident is not okay. Intent matters, of course, but the point is--those of us in the States should know this law because most of us have gone to driving school where we have been taught and tested on this and other driving laws. You're supposed to be paying attention when you're on the road.

Despite the environmental horrors, I love to drive. But it is a dangerous activity. You have to pay attention.

Driving is a privelege--you don't have any right to it, and so I think these impositions that are only concerned with safety are perfectly just.

Matthew Fluxington

15:00 / 04.10.02

$213 is not that great a fine, Janina. What, should we charge him $15 instead? Should we make breaking traffic laws which are there to protect pedestrians cheap, so people don't mind breaking them so much, cos the penalty isn't much? It's a penalty, a punishment. It's meant to deter people from doing it at all, or ever again.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

15:02 / 04.10.02

Makes sense to me... but we don't have quite such luridly coloured school buses over here.

I AM a driver... but I tend to feel laws designed to regulate traffic are among the few laws I agree with.

Probably an easy mistake to make, Trij- pay your fine, chalk it up to experience. Yeah, your parents'll be fucked off, but not for ever.

Yes, a lot of traffic laws ARE draconian- and will penalise those who step a little out of line. That's kind of good though... it means you're less likely to go on from making an error to driving like a maniac...

Tryphena Absent

15:05 / 04.10.02

Yes but we don't really understand why it's so important... we don't have big school buses, certainly not for children of a young enough age to just run out in traffic. Our secondary schools that do have buses never have them stopping on four lane highways because it's unsafe and in this country you don't stop on a road that big unless you want to cause an accident.

Incidentally I've never got a ticket and over the last two and a half years I've never been involved in a car accident. I try to be careful when I drive though I've done some stupid things (as most people do).

15:10 / 04.10.02

If you've ever been in the US, you'd know there is pretty much no way you'd mistake a school bus for anything else. They are big and a specific color of yellow, and you can't miss them. They had the words "SCHOOL BUS" written on them in lights, for fuck's sake.

...and most of them have an illuminated STOP sign that deploys from the driver's side when the driver stops to let passengers on or off: and that sign, when deployed, holds the same weight (legally) as a stationary STOP sign.

The Apple-Picker

15:13 / 04.10.02

Congratulations on your driving record Janina.

Here, very young children ride on school buses. Kindergartners are around 4-6. I was five.

There is a six-lane highway just about two blocks away from the house I've lived in most of my life. School buses stop there. There are traffic lights and intersections. The speed limit is 35 miles per hour. Stopping does not cause a ruckus.

15:16 / 04.10.02

Well, I suppose. Or you could teach children to cross roads carefully.

Seconded. Don't you guys have the Tufty Club?

The Return Of Rothkoid

15:17 / 04.10.02

Janina; to put it in perspective - fines in NSW here for speeding can be in excess of $954. And on public holidays and holiday weekends and stuff, it's doubled, as well as double demerit points.

The Apple-Picker

15:20 / 04.10.02

Yeah, Trijhaos, just count your blessings that you didn't pass the bus in a construction zone! [All fines doubled.]

15:28 / 04.10.02

Isn't there something in Denmark or Finland where the fines are adjusted to your income & some rockstar got fined $10,000 for speeding?

Oh well, Trij... it doesn't say in your topic abstract that you're looking for a fearsome debate about traffic law, so let's see I'll take "traffic blunders" for $1500 ...goddamn it, I drove our almost brand-new car against a parked truck (at slow speed, which makes me even more of an idiot) & managed to slightly dent not one, not two, but three of the side panels. Insurance would have covered, but the increase in premium would have quickly overtaken the cost of the repair and then some. We decided to leave the dent as is, poor disfigured car...

The Apple-Picker

15:59 / 04.10.02

I hear that adds character. Or something like that.

My car has lots of character. I blame my mother.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

16:48 / 04.10.02

I'm not going to get saddled with traffic school or anything, am I?

You better hope so. Attending traffic school is cheaper than paying the fine in most cases, and after going to the school the strike is taken off your record.

I've been to traffic school three times. The same school, as a matter of fact (Alive At 25, Nashville's most famous traffic school), and now I have no marks on my record despite having recieved three tickets and having driven my preist friend's car into a ditch while really stoned. The first time sucked ass, but the last two were a whole lot of fun. The instructors are great, and most of the time everyone has a lot of fun being silly with strangers.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:24 / 04.10.02

I'd never heard of this law before now. I'm sorry Trijhaos got slapped with a fine, and it does seem rather excessive. Maybe something in the region of seventy-eighty quid would be fairer.

On the other hand I'm all for laws that acknowledge the fact that kids are daft but that they don't necessarily deserve to get knocked down for it.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

18:59 / 04.10.02

I'm sorry, but the way it's explained everyone on the road should get fined if they move one femtometer once a bus stops, after all some stupid kid who's parents only communicate to it by means of a psychic and tap-dancing might run straight into the path of oncoming traffic heading in the opposite traffic. We must penalise everyone so that we remove from the parents the hint that they should teach their offspring ANYTHING AT ALL.

19:48 / 04.10.02

Fight the ticket...

if the trooper doesn't show up... or the Bus driver, then there's no witness to testify against you.

If the trooper shows up you can cross examine him, ask him if he actually SAW you pass the school bus. Ask if you where given a specific licence plate, if the Bus driver's not there you can ask the judge to drop the case because you can't cross examine the Bus driver to verify if your's is the actual licence plate.

All you have to do is establish a reasonable doubt. Give it a shot... if you're un employed then the time spent may be more worth the cost of the cashiers check.

DO NOT admit to passing the BUS!!!
Do NOT Deny it that would be purgery... you could always take the 5th if asked.

I would at least give it a shot, rather than just plead guilty. Most money made on traffic tickets are the result of people simply pleading guilty rather than attmpting to "fight it."

MY 2 Cents....

The Apple-Picker

19:52 / 04.10.02

Oh for crying out loud! It's not like the bus stops on a dime; it slows down, with blinking lights coming on as a warning and everything!!! You're supposed to slow down to 20 miles per hour in a school zone, too. They have blinking lights for that, also, lots of times--though not always.

The law was not made to make up for parents who slack in teaching their children the ways of the world. This seems like more of that "I should be allowed to do whatever I want; I don't see it hurting anybody (and let the world deal with the fallout)" bullshit. We wouldn't need laws like this if people would just issue the respect for one another that's due, you know?

I'm sorry if I'm ranting or yelling, but this stuff enrages me every time. Now all you have to do to make me totally rave is to bitch about the seat belt law. You wanna provoke me, punk?

The Apple-Picker

19:53 / 04.10.02

Oh my god. Are you kidding, Mr. Tricks?

Matthew Fluxington

19:54 / 04.10.02

Right.

Avoid responsibilty and civic duty. Save yourself some cash. Fuck everyone else.

The Apple-Picker

20:00 / 04.10.02

Trijhaos, follow Mr. Tricks's advice at your own peril, if indeed, it was sincere.

See, if you do that, chances are you'll get laughed at SO FUCKING HARD, have to pay your fine anyway, and then have to pay the court costs on top of that.

*sigh* Where the hell is Randy Cohen when you need him?

20:02 / 04.10.02

Didn't see it anywhere in the thread, so Trijhaus: was the bus equipped with one of the stop signs, and if so was it extended? If a) but not b) then you should be able to get out of this.

20:07 / 04.10.02

And I should add a big fat goddamn sigh. This is rapidly becoming one of those circular 'letter of the law' arugments.

Given the circumstances, it seems to me highly unlikely that Trijhaus is going to blow by a school bus again, ever, even if his ass is on fire. That being the case, if there's a way to get out of paying the two hundred bucks his unemployed ass doesn't have, should he follow it? Yes. Is that civic irresponsibility? Not at all. The point has been made. No one was hurt and the mental correction has been made. Let some fucker who's egregiously flauting traffic law bolster the coffers of the State of Tennessee this month.

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