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Why Britain will never join the euro

 
 
GreenMann
13:19 / 04.10.02
Britain will never vote for the euro. ‘So what?’ I hear many say. BUT, due to the breakneck speed of globalisation, the pound won’t survive in isolation among a handful of international super-currencies. As a result, sterling would quickly fall into the orbit of the US dollar and Britain would become even more economically, politically+culturally tied to a violently imperialist US bent on world-domination … so someone please tell me I’m wrong!

‘Europe’ is often referred to in Britain as though it were some inferior, suspicious place, nothing much to do with us, despite the fact that – like it or lump it - we have always been deeply involved in it. After centuries of ruling over huge red bits on the world map, the largest empire ever, Britain has been suffering an ‘imperial hangover’. This affects many British people on a cultural level who, after centuries of conditioning that we are somehow better than everyone else, now have to come to terms with just being regular Europeans, no better or worse than anyone else on the continent.

Easier said than done? That’s right - the ‘superiority complex’ still persists among many people here, an irrational belief that no matter how bad things get here we are still somehow ‘better’ or ‘unique’ as a country despite massive evidence to the contrary. Well … we certainly are unique! Our ‘Great British Achievements’ include the poorest quality of life indicators in Europe. Thanks to decades of conservative policies on health, transport, education, housing and employment we are now, believe it or not, among the poorest in Europe!

The country is, of course, awash with national+international money but – u guessed it – its all up top! We are also now the most violent country in Europe with the worst record of abuse (violent+sexual) against our children. Whether we like it or not, we have a lust for violence+retribution unmatched by any other European country, imprisoning more people than any other European country. We still have the ‘proud’ record of illegally defending our ‘right’ to assault our children.

Despite all the evidence that the European quality of life is - in reality – a lot better, there is little hope for the euro campaign. The British left+right wing are totally united in their opposition to the euro. The right is opposed from its predictable ‘little Englander’ racist perspective backed up by mighty media organisations; the left is largely opposed from an anti-imperialist, anti-fortress Europe point of view. Blair wants the euro but is literally scared to talk it up because his buddy, Murdoch, is a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-European. After several decades of completely bias media misinformation we in Britain know just about every negative aspect of the European project and, not surprisingly, the euro is now deeply unpopular with most people in this country!

The REAL reason behind such anti-euro hostility is multinational profit. Multinational media organisations operating in the UK want less EU involvement because it is a threat to their mega-profits. The EU has a basic social policy (minimum employment standards, conditions, pay etc.), an environmental protection policy, monopoly competition rules and other ‘red tape’ that is anathema to the new vicious brand of neo-liberal . This means, of course, that within the EU organisations like News International cannot get away with murder in the same way they do in the US and (often) here, due to numerous UK exemptions. If joined, the euro would fully integrate us economically, socially+politically into the EU. It would be the point of no return into what Thatcher ranted “socialism by the back door”. It would mean, in the area of journalism, that media multinationals would not be able to target individuals, organisations or governments they don’t agree with without some basic redress.

As a result, EU issues frequently receive hostile coverage in the British media, or no coverage at all. For example, EU-funded projects+subsidies are rarely mentioned in the media or, if so, they are rubbished; the euro’s performance is practically censored at the moment while it is successful yet front page news when it isn’t; the proposed ‘euro-constitution’ is attacked as some type of sinister plot, while our new freedoms to travel, work+live anywhere in the EU with only an ID or passport is completely ignored.

Reactionary fears about being “ordered about” and “bossed about” by “Europe” are given banner headlines while stories exposing why Britons work more hours than any other Europeans are mysteriously absent. Multinational hostility to the EU is a short-sighted policy, looking at short-term profits based on getting as much as possible out of sterling +Britain’s ‘sweatshop economy’ in the shortest time possible.

In short, Britain will never vote for the euro because the UK population has been thoroughly misinformed about most things European for decades by a very powerful, untouchable media which constantly reinforces racist views about Europeans+the unhealthy British superiority complex. It will literally take years to undo this negative propaganda even if there was someone to do it, which there isn’t. In the meantime, we are more likely to vote for union with the US than to join the euro!
 
 
Fist Fun
14:03 / 04.10.02
GreenMann, you cover a lot of ground in this thread. It might be worth splitting up into a few different topics. Plenty to discuss.

‘Europe’ is often referred to in Britain as though it were some inferior, suspicious place.

It depends. Does such a thing as Europe exist? Do you mean the European Union? Atlantic to the Urals? The attitude really depends on who you talk to, what you read. There definitely is an anti-foreign attitude in certain sections of the press, taxi drivers, etc but that isn't a British phenomenon. It is more a human reaction to the world. Look at the rise of the right wing in mainland Europe - Le Pen, Jorg Heider, Vlams Blok...ok I might have spelt them incorrectly but you get the idea.

I read an article in the Guardian about David Bellamy the other day. It talked about his autobiograhpy and how he had signed it David Bellamy a botanist, conservationist and an Englishman. That is the attitude you are describing, the stupid headed nationalism, but I think it is rare. Look at the the 5% the Referendum party polled at the last election. I certainly won't describe myself as British in anything other than a literal sense.

At teh same time we shouldn't go the other way. Idealising a fictional idea of Europe while dissing the practical reality of where we live. Like anywhere else Britain has lost of problems but it can also be a great place to live escpecially when we have the freedom to pick and choose which parts of British culture we adopt. Take things like quality of life indicators, say health, what is to stop us adopting a 'European' attitude to food, or leisure. We have the freedom to decide these things. If we fail it isn't necessarily a failure of government.

I'll say more later on another couple of points...
 
 
GreenMann
14:16 / 04.10.02
Thanx for your comments Buk. I thought it was obvious within the context of my post (re 'Europe') that i was referring to the EU. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
 
 
bjacques
17:24 / 04.10.02
A healthy skepticism toward the euro is
warranted. Certainly the UK, if it ever
converts, had better manage the changeover
wel. In the Netherlands, the transition
was smooth, but the price of food, drink and
light goods rose 5-10%, while heavy goods
and fixed property stayed about the same.
Most suppliers and wholesalers hiked prices
because the guilder was 2.2 to the euro.
After 1 January, it was magically converted
at 2 to 1.

Europe works best as a confederation, with
provisional federal powers for acute
problems, subject to expiration clauses.
Although imposing limits on deficit spending is
sensible, there's always the danger that
multinationals can dictate weakening of the social
safety net.

The ambivalence of the UK toward the EU can
work the other way too. It's possible
that the UK can hold out for extra conditions.
If the UK is corporation-dominated, then
the EU could further weaken its social laws
in order to satisfy the UK.

I'm a firm believer in not organizing more
than you have to. Management of the
environment and other shared resources needs
a supranational entity with some enforcement
power. Policing and extradition should be
negotiable, so the Netherlands don't
automatically hand suspects over to Spain
on Spanish suspicion of terrorism, e.g.

Labor laws should be national at most.

I don't know whether the pound is in that much danger,
though.
 
 
GreenMann
12:57 / 07.10.02
bjacques, thanks for your viewpoint. I agree that a healthy skepticism toward the euro is warranted and, yes, prices would go up if we joined. However, it is worth noting that we are already living in “Rip-off Britain”, i.e. the most over-priced country in Europe, not because of the euro but because of the UK’s unchecked corporate-greed, encouraged by every British government to flog off as much of the country’s silver as possible. Prices would go up but I think euro-membership would be a small price to avoid being even more the main US lackey, putting more of us at risk at home+abroad.

The EU social laws are to protect us from multinational capital trampling all over our employment, health, education, transport rights etc.. You say that “If the UK is corporation-dominated, then the EU could further weaken its social laws in order to satisfy the UK.” Mmm … I’m not so sure about that! The social laws have been fought for by European trade unions+other social groups over decades+are among the best things in the EU!

I also believe that “the management of the environment and other shared resources needs a supranational entity with some enforcement power.” It’s already there – it’s called the EU! I disagree that labour laws “should be national at most.” I think that labour should be as international as capital to maximise its effectiveness.

I will personally be quite relieved when we vote against the euro because it will be a major step to leaving the EU (I hope!) or getting kicked out (even better!). For 3 decades we’ve been in a club of people we look down upon+all we do is whinge, whine+complain non-stop about being “bossed about”, “ordered around” etc.. Like many in the EU, I’d have no problem whatsoever if Britain just left the EU once+for all (at least until we as a country have had some theraphy!).
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:51 / 07.10.02
GreenMann, you need to remember that a number of companies have warned they'll pull out of the UK if we don't opt in to the Euro when the moment comes. Your contention that the Multis want Britain to stay out looks a bit shaky in that light.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:17 / 07.10.02
My understanding is that there are companies that have said they'll pull out, there are companies that say that they won't put more work in here until we go in... I guess it's companies looking at how the different exchange rates would affect their business.
 
 
Fist Fun
16:29 / 07.10.02
I disagree that labour laws “should be national at most.” I think that labour should be as international as capital to maximise its effectiveness.

Damn diggity, GM. When we talk about labour laws we generally mean human rights. Which, obviously, shouldn't be at the mercy of arbitrary borders. They are universal and should be treated as such. It is natural and right that they default to the supranational arena for any homogenous people.

Concerning multinationals and the Euro...well, the whole completion of the single market is economically driven and hugely in favour of multi national companies. Economic integration has always preceded the political. It is almost as if it has to be paid for... I think the European Social Fund came about as a pay off to the less industrial states for greater economic integration.
 
 
bjacques
22:33 / 07.10.02
Maybe I was just pessimistic about international laws or treaties, and thus my misgivings about labor laws.
The EU is probably strong enough not to have to beg the UK to join, and won't make any stupid concessions.
 
 
GreenMann
07:59 / 08.10.02
Nik, Buk u r both right in your own ways. Its true many multinationals have said they will pull out of the UK if we DON’T join.

There are a few logical reasons for this. Given the choice, most multinationals want less regulation, less employment rights, less tax, the ‘freedom’ to pollute, exploit+use up human and natural resources to maximise their profits, with as little ‘red tape’ (i.e. accountability) as possible. Many multinationals HAVE to go where the euro goes because that’s where their markets. BUT, many UK-based multinationals (e.g. the small but powerful group of UK companies who run the UK media) have global interests located more in the US+other parts of the world than in Europe

It’s true also that the EU was originally set up by+for European capitalists. Later on, however, European trade unions, socialist parties+social groups fought for+won a ‘social dimension’ in european policy to ‘balance’ the capital –v- labour split. It may be argued that this was a trick to encourage workers into this clearly capitalist project. Mabey.

I suppose it just shows how desperate things are these days that, in a world being torn apart by war-hungry multinationals+governments, we have to depend on a liberal capitalist project, the EU, to give us some limited social+environmental protection.
 
 
Fist Fun
08:15 / 08.10.02
The EU is probably strong enough not to have to beg the UK to join, and won't make any stupid concessions.

No it is an excellent point. There are real risks attached to supranational regulation. It could lead to a downgrading of labour law to the lowest common denominator. That isn't necessarily bad. Perhaps there could be an abstract lcd framework at supranational level then different concrete implementations in different states. Obviously that wouldn't be the best solution but it would be practical. Which is perhaps more important.

If you don't have supranational labour law there is a risk that states bid between themselves to be the most business friendly ie no minimum wage, social protection, etc. That is why we need labour law at a global level.
 
 
Pepsi Max
09:16 / 08.10.02
"Britain will never vote for the euro".

I disagree. I think within the next decade Britons will vote in favour of joining the euro. I believe the "Little Englander" mentality is beginning to break down and whilst the business community are divided on this, the majority will go with the euro. The youngest generations of British people have more contact with their European counterparts than their parents did (altho this is not always positive) - the memories of the 'Empire' are now receding - cutting off the other options for British visbility in the world.

It is tempting for those on the left to lump all 'multinationals' together. The interests of News International often run foul of individual EU governments and the European Commission (local media companies are still fiercely protected by national governments within Europe). However, other multinationals may have opposing "pro-Europe" interests - the farming lobby for example.

N.B. Joining the euro will have no effect on UK labor legislation. We are already part of the EU and thus our labor laws must follow EU directives. We are fully integrated politically within the EU today.

Some opinion poll info here (usual caveats regarding data reliability) that may prove me wrong:
http://www.mori.com/polls/2002/sssb-sep.shtml

Some questions:
1. Do you think that the Britain's growing connections with mainland Europe since WWII have been a good or a bad thing for its inhabitants?
2. Has the EU and the euro been a good thing for the rest of Europe? And what about those countries outside Europe?
3. What do people think about the proposed enlargement of the EU (e.g. Poland, Hungary, etc)?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:29 / 08.10.02
It is certainly amusing that the group who would benefit most at present from the adoption of the Euro - farmers - are so dead-set against it. However, since the only distinctly and powerfully Eurosceptic party in the UK is currently unelectable, I can't see us staying out fo the Euro for too long, as long as it is not an unmitigated disaster. When the American consumer spending bubble farts away into oblivion, I imagine the Euro will appear more attractive...
 
 
GreenMann
14:12 / 08.10.02
Pepsi Max, I’m a bit sceptical that only a few decades after empire whether the British r ready to join a common European project. It is true, as u say, that the youngest generations of British people have more contact with their European counterparts than their parents did+empirical memories are now receding. But, on the other hand, it could be argued that ‘contact’ has often been in the form of British nationalist football violence which has made us notorious on the continent for anti-europeanism. Mabey hooliganism this is just a leftover of British imperialism+will fade away completely in a few decades.

I agree it is tempting to lump all multinationals together. I myself fall into the trap of believing that they all put profit before people. Some multinationals do have opposing "pro-Europe" interests, but the UK farming lobby is certainly not one of them! The National Farmers Union (NFU) is actually one of the more hostile ‘Little Englander’ voices against the EU, despite getting billions of EU aid for British farmers. The NFU blames the EU for the catastrophe in British farming (foot ‘n’ mouth, BSE-CJD etc), condemns the EU for not selling our infected beef+wants Britain to leave the EU entirely.

It is true that joining the euro will have no effect on UK labour legislation. We are already part of the EU and thus our labour laws must follow EU directives. BUT … EU labour laws don’t cover everything+we work the longest hours in the EU with the lowest pay when prices, rents etc r taken into account. Also, if Britain doesn’t join the euro it will greatly strengthen the anti-EU case+will ‘Americanise’ the UK workforce even more.

I think that the Britain is probably getting over its ‘superiority complex’, but I think that it will take another 50 years or so before we completely overcome it.
 
 
Fist Fun
18:59 / 08.10.02

I think that the Britain is probably getting over its ‘superiority complex’, but I think that it will take another 50 years or so before we completely overcome it.


Why fifty years rather than five or ten or fifteen? I don't believe Britain has a superiority complex. Certainly some of its inhabitants might but Britain as an entity? I'm British and I feel as much connection to imperialism as I do to other historic events that didn't involve me. Just because you are born or live in a certain area doesn't mean you have to be trapped into some evil stereotype.
 
 
GreenMann
13:03 / 09.10.02
Buk, I disagree with u because I think it is impossible for ANY country to get over its imperialism after ruling the largest empire ever known for centuries. Most of the biggest British colonies were handed back by the 1960s, leaving a small but wide scattering of small colonies+islands that still exist.

Imperialism by its nature produces a superiority complex suffered by the inhabitants of the metropolis in question. This complex is an irrational feeling that the mother country is, for some inextricable reason, ‘better’, that other countries are inferior. So, yes, unfortunately, I do think it will take at least 50 years before we, in Britain, can live with our European neighbours as equals.

I don’t believe it’s just taxi drivers, football hooligans, the tory party, the police etc etc who are suffering this post-imperial hangover, but that its negative effects are pervasive throughout our society, as demonstrated by the huge popularity of the xenophobic Sun+other racist newspapers (the Mail, the Telegraph, the Express etc) that reflect the country’s racist views about British ‘superiority’.

I agree, just because you are born or live in a certain area doesn't mean you HAVE to be trapped into some evil stereotype, but it doesn’t help one bit!
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
13:48 / 09.10.02
Well, presumably we should be able to exist within Europe on more or less the same level as the other ex-imperial powers - the Netherlands, France, Italy to a pretty minor extent...
 
 
GreenMann
11:09 / 10.10.02
Kit-Cat Club, I agree that we WILL be able to exist within Europe on more or less the same level as other ex-imperial powers, but all these countries had significantly smaller empires for much shorter periods of time, certainly not for centuries. The international power they had cannot even be compared to the British empire. In addition, at least a century has already passed for each of those countries to get over their relatively tiny imperial hangovers. Britain clearly needs a lot longer, at least 50 years in my opinion.
 
  
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