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Pentagon disinfo office pulled...

 
 
netbanshee
16:52 / 28.02.02
Culled from Wired...

quote:So America will not have its own version of Dr. Goebbels' Ministry of Propaganda after all. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld crankily, but emphatically, killed off the Pentagon's new Office of Strategic Influence on Thursday, saying that its effectiveness had been undermined by overzealous media hyenas. Pressed by reporters as to whether the OSI would have really disseminated false information overseas, Rumsfeld said no. Then he added: "The office is done. It's over. What do you want? Blood?

So...now there won't be an "official" lying...
 
 
Not Here Still
17:05 / 28.02.02
They would say that, wouldn't they...
 
 
Ierne
17:42 / 28.02.02
I suspect that as of now the OSI will work covertly. the "overzealous media hyenas" were part of the plan.
 
 
w1rebaby
20:42 / 28.02.02
And now I imagine there will be no lies coming from the USG... a new era of truthfulness dawns...
 
 
The Monkey
00:19 / 01.03.02
No, there just won't be any official lies. You know, like back in Vietnam....
 
 
rizla mission
11:36 / 01.03.02
"Office of Strategic Influence"? fucking hell, have they read any science fiction?
 
 
mr insensitive
20:44 / 01.03.02
P,No, but probably a lot of Orwell.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
19:09 / 03.03.02
I dropped by the office and they were putting up a closed sign and laughing.

Whatever they say, I don't think that it should surprise anyone that the Bush Administration would have things like this AND the Shadow Government. They're inpower again, and they won't give it up for any reason.
 
 
mr insensitive
17:51 / 04.03.02
Maybe we should take him out!
 
 
Opalfruit
07:17 / 05.03.02
Speaking of the Pentagon and Disinfo this is quite an interesting read:

What Plane?

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: Opalfruit ]
 
 
tSuibhne
19:20 / 05.03.02
quote:Originally posted by Opalfruit:
Speaking of the Pentagon and Disinfo this is quite an interesting read:

What Plane?

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: Opalfruit ]


Except, for the problem of eye witnesses.
That area is densely populated with buildings and the site is visible from 395, one of the busiest stretches of road way in DC. It would not be possible to convince people that a plane hit the Pentagon with out the wrekage that they say doesn't exist.
 
 
fluid_state
02:48 / 06.03.02
about the plane :

at the time of the crash/attack/assault-on all-freedom-loving-peoples/ (take your pick, or make your own!), the news reports initially stated that it was a truck that caused the pentagon explosion. Then, it was supposedly a helicopter. Then, various news stations started reporting that it was indeed a plane that hit the pentagon; at the same time, other stations reported it as a truck again. there was a massive amount of confusion over what actually did it, and it didn't really abate until the next day, when the plane became the official cause. the only footage i saw of the pentagon that morning (and much of the afternoon) only showed a column of smoke rising above a line of buildings. the pentagon wasn't even visible in the shot.

i've decided, that in the absence of any media documenting the pentagon crash, that it was simultaneous apocalyptic indigestion among the Joint Chiefs. might as well have been...
 
 
tSuibhne
11:54 / 06.03.02
quote:Originally posted by solid_state:
about the plane :

at the time of the crash, the news reports initially stated that it was a truck that caused the pentagon explosion. Then, it was supposedly a helicopter. Then, various news stations started reporting that it was indeed a plane that hit the pentagon; at the same time, other stations reported it as a truck again. there was a massive amount of confusion over what actually did it, and it didn't really abate until the next day, when the plane became the official cause. the only footage i saw of the pentagon that morning (and much of the afternoon) only showed a column of smoke rising above a line of buildings. the pentagon wasn't even visible in the shot.


It was a very confusing day. Local news was on again off again for a good part of the day that a truck bomb had gone off in front of the State Dept. Now, when they're screwing up a building in the middle of DC, I'll give 'em a little breathing room on screwing up a place like the Pentagon.

The shortest leap of faith is that a plane hit the Pentagon.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
13:57 / 06.03.02
Ordinarily, I'd agree... except I can't find the plane and I can't answer the (reasonable) questions. Can you? If you can, please thrill us... otherwise I'm changing your name to TOADYINGRUNNINGDOG. Only joking.
 
 
tSuibhne
20:07 / 06.03.02
quote:Originally posted by Jack The Bodiless:
Ordinarily, I'd agree... except I can't find the plane and I can't answer the (reasonable) questions. Can you? If you can, please thrill us... otherwise I'm changing your name to TOADYINGRUNNINGDOG. Only joking.


First, my memory on everything is fuzzy, so theories are being put forward instead of researched facts.

Question 1: Lack of Damage to inner rings.

I'm sure we've all heard the reports that this section of the Pentagon had recently been fitted with bomb resistent glass, and other safety features. I can personally verify that news reports of this upgrade predate the attack by a considerable time period.
This arguement, along with almost all of the arguements, assume an almost horizantal decent into the building. As if the plane was trying to land. As I recall the plane came in at a very steep angle of decent. The force of the plane was directed down into the ground, not straight ahead into the inner rings.
Also, as I recall it didn't hit the Pentagon as much as it hit the ground right in front of the Pentagon. If you look close at the sattelite photo, you can see something between the helipad and the building that looks like the hole.

Question 2: Only the groundfloor being hit.

with a steep angle of decent, this isn't a big leap. Even less of a leap if in fact the ground in front of the building was hit.

Question 3: Lack of debris

Official reason for the lack of debris given was that the plane disentergrated on landing. At a high speed, and with a steep angle of decent, this is not a major leap of faith. (imagen a car hitting a tree at 120 mph) Also remember that the majority of the Pentagon is underground. With a steep angle of decent you could hide a good bit of a crumpled airplane in the basement.

Question 4: The sanding of the lawn.

Same reason the local gas station puts sand on the pavement when someone spills gas. It's to soak up jet fuel, before it catches fire, or leaks into the local water table (the Pentagon is with in a stones through of the Potomac which already has enough chemicals in it, thank you very much)

Question 5: Wing damage



The question attached to this is why didn't the wings cause damage. Project the wings onto the building. I can see the damage they caused.
Also, if you look at the damage, this seems to lend credance to the steep angle theory, to me at least.

Quesiton 6: The Fire chief's lack of knowledge.

Probably because he was being kept as much in the dark as possible. In acctuallity, he had no authority over the matter, his men were under the military's jurisdiction. Using the above theory that what didn't disintergrate on impact, ended up inside the building, it's not a big surprise that he wouldn't know the situation.

Question 7: Lack of debris in photos.

Work with the steep angle of decent theory and check the ground in front of the building. You can see, what appears to me, to be the edge of the crater. There is also some kind of debris in the water of the first photo, but I cant' make out if it's the building or parts of the plane.

I also keep coming back to 395. If you look at the picture here you will see 395 on the left. ALL those different roads there are the various veins that lead into 395. What the picture doesn't show is that you're about two minutes from the Mall and downtown DC. This section of 395 was full of cars, because it's always full of cars during the workday. 5 mile backups are normal for this area of DC. This is not the boondocks.

How was this done, if all these people DIDN'T see the plane? I answered your question Jack, feel like answering that one?

Edited to fix grammar mistakes.

[ 06-03-2002: Message edited by: tSuibhne ]
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
12:36 / 07.03.02
Cheers, tsuibby-darling... and no, I don't want to answer your question. Largely because I'm not sure what the 'this' is that you refer to (maybe a re-edit to correct the rest of the grammatical mistakes?), but also because, as previously admitted, I agree with you. I just couldn't answer the questions. Being a UK citizen, and not being very knowledgeable about 'stuff', are only two of the reasons for my ignorance. Please to see you could help me out.
 
 
MJ-12
13:52 / 07.03.02
Actually, the reason that we can't answer the questions, is that we're not experts on the effects of aircraft smashing into buildings. And, neither is the fellow at asile.org.
 
 
tSuibhne
16:32 / 07.03.02
quote:Originally posted by Jack The Bodiless:
Cheers, tsuibby-darling... and no, I don't want to answer your question. Largely because I'm not sure what the 'this' is that you refer to (maybe a re-edit to correct the rest of the grammatical mistakes?)


May be if I had paid attention in English class I could fix the rest of the mistakes, but I didn't so, sorry.

If I'm understanding you right, what I mean is the Pentagon is in the middle of one of the most densely populated areas of DC. Hundreds could have possibly seen the accident. Personally, I know a few who were in the area when it happened (including one person who was in the Pentagon)

What the guy at the webpage hasn't dealt with is, if it wasn't a plane, why hasn't anyone come forward saying that they didn't see a plane? I've gone over this question myself again and again, and I can't answer it. Any theories on how this got pulled off?

Oh, and the "answer my question" thing was just a little joke Jack, in responce to your joke.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
11:42 / 08.03.02
Um, here's some more grease for your " a plane didn't hit the pentagon" theory. Yesterday, photos, purportedly from a pentagon security camera, were released by an unofficial source that alledgedly show the approach, impact and aftermath of the plan.

What's weird about these pictures? Look at the time/date stamp. (Of course, that's easily explained by technical incomptence) And in the first of the 5 photos, can you tell that that smudge is a plane?

The images cover a span of four one-hundredths of a second.

Photos and article
 
 
tSuibhne
13:08 / 08.03.02
My question still stands
 
 
Ethan Hawke
13:11 / 08.03.02
Oh, I think that a plane hit the pentagon. That would definitely be the reasonable assumption. But there seems to be some weirdness going on, especially in light of these new photos. Also worth noting is that the black boxes of the two world trade center pleaness and the pentagon plane have yet to be recovered.
 
 
Baz Auckland
17:15 / 11.03.02
If a plane didnt hit the Pentagon, where did it go? They know who was on the plane (quite a few National Geographic employees I remember), and know that it is no longer here, along with the people on board..... if it didnt hit the Pentagon, where is it?

(This is a much better question to play with, no?)
 
 
Naked Flame
17:25 / 11.03.02
Well, the obvious answer to that one would be that it went boom somewhere else for unspecified reasons, and we don't have the somewhere else.

I'm quite willing to believe the plane hit the pentagon. Maybe the thing that makes it look/feel most dodgy is the sheer contrast between the WTC site and the Pentagon... but quite a bit has been made of the lack of safety considerations in modern high-rise buildings... remember the vids of Bin Laden expressing surprise at the success of the operation?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
14:57 / 12.03.02
quote:Originally posted by Flame On:

I'm quite willing to believe the plane hit the pentagon. Maybe the thing that makes it look/feel most dodgy is the sheer contrast between the WTC site and the Pentagon... but quite a bit has been made of the lack of safety considerations in modern high-rise buildings... remember the vids of Bin Laden expressing surprise at the success of the operation?


Also, the architect who designed the WTC towers was surprised as well, as he designed them to be able to withstand the impact of a 757 collision without falling over. He also figured that the tower wouldn't just collapse downward, but in the direction that the plane was flying just before impact. The guy who wrote Stupid White Men was telling Jon Stewart that many people who were exiting the building just before it collapsed heard a few explosions (which wouldn't have come from the plane, whose fuel and other explosive chemicals had already combusted). I think he's suggesting that bombs were planted inside to insure that the towers would collpase for whatever reason.

I don't doubt a plane hit the pentagon. I don't understand the physics of a plane disintegrating on impact, but it is a well populated section of DC, and someone would have mentioned that they didn't see a plane strike a building before the explosion.
 
 
MJ-12
15:03 / 12.03.02
ok, so has anyone said that they did see the plane hit the Pentagon?
 
  
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